Alain Whyte and Moz. What happened?

Alain's exact quote, "I haven't spoken to Spence in years, I just got reacquainted with him on Facebook(he might've said Myspace). I've missed him, I mean, I'm the one who got him in the band. He was my friend." It's been five years, so forgive me if I've misquoted, but it was something to that degree. True story.

Make your mind up
 
We've been without Alain in the band for 8 years now, with Morrissey still using his musical compositions right up until Refusal - so he must still hold him in high regard as a songwriter. What happened between them? Did Alain leave or was he kicked out? Why has Moz never mentioned the departure when Alain was in the band for 13 years? I've never understood this. I read the main page article about Alain working with Madonna, and I'm left wondering where it all went wrong :straightface:.

It is truly a sad thing, Amy. I think Alain's last 'public' appearance with Morrissey was in the 'In The Future' video where, somewhat incongruously, he's playing drums or, metaphorically, second fiddle to Morrissey's new golden boy Jesse T on a Morrissey-Tobias songs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA2hnOIkQ0g . What an odd way for their partnership to end.
The biggest tragedy (in my op) is that Alain's songs were getting better and better on recent albums. Carol, Birthday and Squeezing were all fantastic, melodic pieces of music bursting with energy and invention. Take those songs off YOR and you're potentially left with the quality of the next album.
Alain and Morrissey have talked about each other in the last 5 years. Morrissey said some really nice things about Alain, I think sometime around the release of YOR.
Alain originally left the tour in 2004 because of some kind of unspecified illness. I must admit I never appreciated him on stage that much before he left, but I've really missed him ever since. He had a real charisma that I think has been missing from the band ever since.
 
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Thanks for the correction. "No One Compares"? Must've had Prince half on the brain.

Please remind me, what was the date of Alain's final live show?

Sad to say, but it looks as if there won't be any songwriting contributions from Alain but I'm still holding out for an album from various contributors who "fight" for a spot on what could be Moz' swansong.

Alain's final live show was in Dublin Castle on 5th June 2004 and for the record it was a fantastic concert. He looked like he really enjoyed it and nothing seemed to indicate that it would be his last live appearance with Morrissey. I can remember him geeing up the crowd when the band came back on for the encore. Little Barrie filled in on guitar for a few gigs after that.
 
It is truly a sad thing, Amy. I think Alain's last 'public' appearance with Morrissey was in the 'In The Future' video where, somewhat incongruously, he's playing drums or, metaphorically, second fiddle to Morrissey's new golden boy Jesse T on a Morrissey-Tobias songs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA2hnOIkQ0g . What an odd way for their partnership to end.
The biggest tragedy (in my op) is that Alain's songs were getting better and better on recent albums. Carol, Birthday and Squeezing were all fantastic, melodic pieces of music bursting with energy and invention. Take those songs off YOR and you're potentially left with the quality of the next album.
Alain and Morrissey have talked about each other in the last 5 years. Morrissey said some really nice things about Alain, I think sometime around the release of YOR.
Alain originally left the tour in 2004 because of some kind of unspecified illness. I must admit I never appreciated him on stage that much before he left, but I've really missed him ever since. He had a real charisma that I think has been missing from the band ever since.

That video is depressing. In fact, the whole thing is. Alain is a lovely guy, and by far his most consistently strong collaborator since Marr. I can't imagine any legitimate reason for Moz to end the partnership. If Alain left of his own accord, I'm sure he has his reasons, but if not then that's sickening. I know you're probably not implying that he was kicked out, but I don't think Morrissey would ever be that fickle concerning someone who'd been his right-hand man virtually since his solo career began - and I can't see Boz being quiet about that decision, given that he & Alain were peas in a pod. Then again Moz has a history of screwing people over, so who knows? If he did push Alain out because he already preferred Tobias, then the man is an absolute wanker who willingly crippled his own musical output. No, I don't believe that about our man. But what's this about Alain not being "allowed" to play his own compositions during the Refusal sessions? Is that true?
 
I can only speculate lazily but I cannot imagine it has been fun for Alain to compose these songs since ROTT and being forbidden from playing them in the studio or on stage.
 
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Your opinion of site administrator is totally wrong.

If he hates Morrissey, how come he is still running this site?


You are one of the lazy moaning spoilt sods who never stop poking at others for without valid reasons.

If you don't like the policy of this site, start your own fan site and tell others what you know.


Possibly Alain wants to pursue some other channels in order to expand his musical career.

Is it acceptable for the mods to call someone 'a sod'?! Send yourself to the Pigsty (or naughty step).
 
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It was obviously illness that lead to his leaving the 2004. At the time, it was strongly rumoured (well, I mean it was posted several times on moz-solo comments) that it was mental illness and that he 'thought he was Jesus'

Here's a thread from back in the day http://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/32226-Alain-whyte-gone-off-his-tits-and-thinks-he-s-JESUS-WHAT

And it references a post by 'equitaroial guinea' who was (and maybe still is) very knowledgable and seemed a sensible person.

It's never really been officially confirmed but then a thing like that never would be.

It could make sense that he had some mental problems and had to leave the tour and then Moz was cautious about letting him back into the fold (would also explain the song dedication as well).

I dunno I love Alain's work and I agree with the posts saying he is Moz's best collaborator since Marr. I hope Moz would at least let Alain co-write future material even if he won't take him on tour again.
 
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It was obviously illness that lead to his leaving the 2004. At the time, it was strongly rumoured (well, I mean it was posted several times on moz-solo comments) that it was mental illness and that he 'thought he was Jesus'

Here's a thread from back in the day http://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/32226-Alain-whyte-gone-off-his-tits-and-thinks-he-s-JESUS-WHAT

And it references a post by 'equitaroial guinea' who was (and maybe still is) very knowledgable and seemed a sensible person.

It's never really been officially confirmed but then a thing like that never would be.

It could make sense that he had some mental problems and had to leave the tour and then Moz was cautious about letting him back into the fold (would also explain the song dedication as well).

I dunno I love Alain's work and I agree with the posts saying he is Moz's best collaborator since Marr. I hope Moz would at least let Alain co-write future material even if he won't take him on tour again.

The poster from that thread sounds like they bear Alain a bit of a grudge - "limited mental capacity anyway"? Interesting thread anyway, thankyou 2-J. Perhaps the Alain thing seems surprising because we know so little of his personal backstory - I've never heard that he suffered with depression or any kind of mental illness. In fact, on the surface it seems more likely that Moz would have a breakdown than Alain, but who knows? Either way, Alain seems to be in good health, if his recent marriage and the Madonna project is anything to go by. I'd love to see some Whyte co-writes on the new album, whenever it arrives.
 
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didn't Morrissey mention "tensions" within the band (i think specifically between Boz and Alain) in some recent sleevenotes. Perhaps the tension became too much and one of them had to go?
 
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didn't Morrissey mention "tensions" within the band (i think specifically between Boz and Alain) in some recent sleevenotes. Perhaps the tension became too much and one of them had to go?

Goddard alludes to tensions between Alain and Boz due to the competitive nature of songwriting with Morrissey, as suggested by Spencer Cobrin. It certainly seems feasible if two people are fighting to place songs as a main source of livelihood. But I would speculate it was not a primary reason, since Jesse is there now and contributes songs. Plus, even after he was out of the live and studio picture, Alain placed the largest share of songs.

I think the timing of Red Lightning and Alain's desire to get something started on his own complicated matters. Recall he played his first Red Lighting gig - though billed as a solo gig - a few months before YATQ was released. That said Alain clearly expressed his desire to return to his live gig, at least circa RotT.

Boz's tour diary has been pretty much shelved and archived for years, but the entries for 2004 - including the references to Alain's "obvious illness" and desire to return to the tour - were removed many years ago.

At any rate, my hope is that Alain receives praise from Morrissey in the autobio. He served a prickly boss for the better part of 20 years and indelibly left his mark on the man's legacy and commercial fortunes. It is his due.
 
Re: Alain Whyte and Moz. What happened? (I also don't like it when you change titles)

All excellent points! Aside from the obvious - Moz can't stand the Administrator - I have it on very good authority (from a band member) that several members of the board are reviled by Moz insiders.

Oh, hi Kewpie!!!

Out of spite, revenge, to have a forum for him to "strike back" against Morrissey as he pleases, to still be, in a small way, an "insider" of sorts. Who knows? You'd have to ask HIM, the administrator, that question. I think you're wrong. So much for what you and I think. He claims he's "still interested" and as long as he his, he'll continue to maintain the website, but to what degree? He's never written a mission statement, we don't really know what his motives ARE or have ever been. We know, possibly what his motives were, which are: He USED to love Morrissey, He USED to want to be an insider and he shows desires to be a "quasi-journalist" and we also know that David has had a penchant in the past to giving a "voice" to former Morrissey associates and detractors. Being banned for life from Morrissey shows should tell you a lot, but you still don't seem to see it. The truth is, I appreciate a great deal what David has done over the years (as a fan of MORRISSEY) and I also think he has failed Morrissey in many ways as well. Not all of it, is his fault, I agree. But, if we are being honest, in some sense, he has always been in over his head. And that is O.K. See, Kewpie, what you don't know is, I have supported David for many years, probably longer than you have, so you don't really know who you are talking to and your emotional outburst is fairly infantile. I took issue in the later years of Morrissey's career to a certain specific things that David did and those issues, along with Morrissey's lack of support for this website, are why my opinion of the site administrator are what they are. There's no need for you, having a lack of knowledge on my personal perspective on what David does, to chime in and it doesn't make my presence here less valuable. In fact, it's a credit to David that I continue here, in that, even in spite of his shortcomings, I forgive him and on the whole, he does a decent work or at least passable. Or maybe I just like to come here to cause trouble, like you think. I'll let the people decide. Whatever. But he has to realise there are consequences, just like the consequences that you (a moderator of this forum) and he (the administrator) give us when we break your silly forum "rules." You can't have it both ways.



You should reserve your pointless insults for the Pigsty because you don't even know me, what I've done or WHY I've done what I've done. Your sentence doesn't make much sense. Part of your problem is you don't follow your own rules, in fact, you and your clan break them at every turn as you please. Also, it could be said that what you do, merging threads in your purely personal way without rhyme or reason, hurts this website AND Morrissey more than anyone else. I don't "poke" anyone without a valid reason. In fact, I don't do much at all without a VERY GOOD reason. The fact that you're unaware of the reasons is not MY fault, it's yours. I'm not even sure why I'm responding to this as, again, your sentence doesn't make sense. Lazy? Where do you get this? Moaning? Perhaps, but there are many people here who "moan" and are far more annoying and in fact, HATEFUL towards Morrissey. You'd think you would be more interested in those people but you're not, which proves my case again and again and again. Spoilt? Hardly. In fact, I'm quite humble. Kewpie, if you're going to stand up for someone, like the administrator, don't you think you would serve him better making actual points instead of just slinging insults, which according to you, are supposed to belong in the Pigsty? I'm all for a good mudslinging, in fact, most of the time, I'm up for it! But there has to be a valid reason and there doesn't seem to be one here. :)



Why would I do that, when I can have other's do it for me? Yes, I don't like the policy of this website. Fact. I have that right. I can dislike or like anything I want. It doesn't mean I have to run off and "start my own fan site" as you say. I let you and others do it for me, then, from my ivory tower, I judge you and tell you with various nods, scripts and hand jestures whether or not I think what you doing is right, valid or not. Then, with my majestic scepter, I shall dismiss you. Like I'm doing now.

coronation.jpg




OK. Your point?
 
Re: Alain Whyte and Moz. What happened? (I also don't like it when you change titles)

All excellent points! Aside from the obvious - Moz can't stand the Administrator - I have it on very good authority (from a band member) that several members of the board are reviled by Moz insiders.

Oh, hi Kewpie!!!

Intriguing. If you feel you just need to get something like that off your chest, my ears are freshly de-waxed. ;)
 
Re: Alain Whyte and Moz. What happened? (I also don't like it when you change titles)

Intriguing. If you feel you just need to get something like that off your chest, my ears are freshly de-waxed. ;)

So are mine as I used the big orange thingy to blow my ears clean the other day.
 
Re: Alain Whyte and Moz. What happened? (I also don't like it when you change titles)

An Alain Whyte Memory... Picture San Diego,2006. A warm June night in Point Loma at the Red Lightning Show. Once the show was over, I walked up to Alain with my Ringleaders of The Tormentors record. When I showed Alain the record he smiled broadly, almost surprised I had it. Would you sign this for me, I said. Ofcorse David. Alan took the record, really took a moment to look at it and signd it with a "Thanks and best wishes"..Total gentleman and appreciative. Thanks again to you Alain Whyte. Your very much missed, almost as much as we love your songs. Best of luck and continued successes! Molly & David
 
Re: Alain Whyte and Moz. What happened? (I also don't like it when you change titles)

Oh ya... Red Lightning did a great cover of ," That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore", done past perfectly. Alain not only writes great songs, but plays a mean guitar and his voice? Wonderful ! Perfecto! Ahhhhh Bella! No wonder Madonna wants this guy! Good choise Madonna! You wont find better than Alain Whyte! Wasn't it great to have multi- talented people around? You too Morrissey... All those great lyrical compositions and you've got a pretty good voice too! And still so handsome ! Always... xox m&d
 
yeah alain has been working with artists such as tiger army lately and he did co-write on years of refusal.. i'm sure he just wanted to focus on that.
 
I met him once and he just said he wanted to do his own thing. Strike out on his own, I guess. He also seemed relieved to be able to have steak and kidney pie again.
 
Alain has had a back injury that has been recurrent and unpredictable : he mentioned in an interview after leaving the band that there were multiple occasions that Moz came very close to cancelling shows as Alain couldn't play/carry a guitar - getting slapped on the back on an American tour by a fan caused a recurrence of this in 99? 02? It could be that this happened again in the midst of a big tour and "the show must go on", to coin a phrase.
 
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