An REM thread for r.e.m. stuff

Earlier there was some talk about the live tracks on the "Murmur IRS Years" re issue (1992) and their source with the possibility being Boston July 13, 1983.

Settle in for a LONG one here....

The liner notes from "Murmur IRS Years" re issue don't list a source for "9-9" or "Gardening At Night", but it does say BOTH are b-sides of the "Rockville UK 12in".
The liner notes DO list a source for "Catapult" as Seattle June 27, 1984, AND says it was the b-side of the "Rockville US 7in".

I own a physical copy of "Return of the Rickenbackers" on vinyl (the Boston July 13, 1983 show). However, those 3 songs are not on it....:rolleyes:

On my HARD DRIVE I have a version of the Boston '83 show with 24 tracks that says it's source was the WBCN FM broadcast straight to DAT by someone named Matt Field and then was "transferred and mastered" by Bill Koucky on Mar 10, 2009.
So I did a comparison listen to these vs the live tracks from "Murmur IRS Years" re issue...
"9-9" and "Gardening At Night" is DEFINITELY the same recording (some Michael ad-libs in various places are identical) so I would FOR SURE say these are Boston July 13, 1983.


"Catapult" on "Murmurs IRS Years" re issue is DEFINITELY NOT Boston 1983. (Once again due to Michael ad lib)

On my HARD DRIVE I have a Seattle June 27, 1984 recording that says it's a "Rapid Eye Movement Release: Nov '04" with front and back artwork and 2 paragraphs of show notes that say "the show was recorded by the band for possible live album release but was shelved". HOWEVER, according to the R.E.M. TIMELINE (http://www.remtimeline.com/1984.html) this recording I have is missing "Driver 8" and "Catapult" (2nd & 3rd song played).... So no help there....
The R.E.M. TIMELINE notes also say "recorded for NBC's The Source radio show, this show is available on many bootlegs, including "Boston 1984" (sic), "Blue", "Pleasant Dreams", "Rock and Roll Stars" and "We're Blinking Just As Fast As We Can"."
We're getting really deep here, but I DO have a CASSETTE bootleg (yes, I still have about 75 R.E.M. bootlegs on cassette. Many are duplicates of things I now have electronically, but I can't make myself throw them away after spending hundreds of hours collecting/trading them) with the title "Rock and Roll Stars" that says it's Seattle, June 27, 1984, and the track listing DOES have "Catapult". BUT I took a listen to it (damn cassettes suck) and unfortunately it does NOT contain "Catapult"... It just goes from "Moral Kiosk" to "Hyena" just like the Rapid Eye Movement recording and there's a pretty obvious "cut" in crowd noise between the two, so I'm guessing "Driver 8" & "Catapult" were cut out for whatever reason on that bootleg. Which means Gary Nabors 1993 book is wrong on the track listing for "Rock and Roll Stars" as well, or maybe my cassette copy was from a different source and I just named it that...
Getting REALLY deep on this one now!
I have no other recordings to verify with.
Therefore I CANNOT CONFIRM if "Catapult" from "Murmur IRS Years" re issue is from Seattle 1984 or not... We have to believe IRS in the liner notes I guess? (More on that later...)
I also do not have a "Rockville 7in" vinyl to compare to.

Now, let's get SUPER deep/weird on this one...
As said above, the "Murmur IRS Years" liner notes claim that "9-9" & "Gardening At Night" are from the "Rockville UK 12in". I actually DO physically have that 12in on vinyl. Here's what's weird.... The sleeve of the 12" says "9-9" & "Gardening At Night" are from the El Dorado, Paris, France April 20th 1984!!! NOT from Boston 1983!!! Now to be fair, the "Murmur IRS Years" re issue liner notes never SAID those tracks were Boston. It just said they were from the "Rockville UK 12in". BUT as stated above, my ears, and Michael's ad libbing, proved that the "Murmur IRS Years" tracks are IDENTICAL to the Boston 1983 recording I have... So NOW the question is are the sleeve notes on the "Rockville UK 12in" wrong on where they were recorded? OR are the liner notes from "Murmur IRS Years" re issue wrong in saying they came from the "Rockville UK 12in"??

I took a listen to the "Rockville UK 12in" tracks and they are DEFINITELY NOT the same as the tracks on the "Murmur IRS Years" re issue.
THEREFORE THE LINER NOTES IN THE "Murmur IRS Years" ARE WRONG ON THESE 2 TRACKS!!!
So I suppose why should we believe what they say about the live version of "Catapult" either??!!

Furthermore, I'm happy to say that the "9-9" & "Gardening At Night" on the "Rockville UK 12in" ARE indeed from Paris April 20, 1984 just as the sleeve states. I verified this by comparing them to two different recordings I have of that date. Someone in the audience and Peter keep saying "Dogs?", Michael says "NO!", Peter says "Dogs?" again and then Gardening At Night starts. Whew!
I DO have to discredit something else from Gary Nabors "Remnants" book though.
When discussing the "Rockville UK 12in" he says.... "This single is very popular among collectors, and would probably be even more so had it not been for the 1992 reissue of the two live tracks on the remastered Murmur CD (the IRS Years one)."
Gary Nabors of course was just going by the information given by IRS in the "Murmur IRS Years" re issue liner notes, and accepting it as true, but I've proven IRS was WRONG about where the tracks came from.
Bad information existed before the internet!! :LOL:

Let me know if any photos are needed to back up anything I said...
 
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gargumma

Active Member
About "Hyena (demo)". I've just compared the three.

- H(D) from Complete Rarities = H(D) from Fables, same version with a slightly different sound quality
- both ≠ H(D) from LRP, which is another version
 

Skylarker

Take a little drink from the liar's cup.
The Hyena on the Fables 25th Anniv and the one on Pageant 25th Anniv are VERY different sounding. The Pageant one has "harder/grungier" sounding guitar. But both of them are slower than the official released version on Pageant.
I don't have the one from the Complete IRS Rarities to compare however, because I assumed I already had it elsewhere...
Let us know if you do a side by side listen.
No I agree; that's why the labeling confused me.
 
I DO have to discredit something else from Gary Nabors "Remnants" book though.
When discussing the "Rockville UK 12in" he says.... "This single is very popular among collectors, and would probably be even more so had it not been for the 1992 reissue of the two live tracks on the remastered Murmur CD (the IRS Years one)."

Wanted to give Gary Nabors credit for correcting himself....
In the "1995 Supplement to Remnants" in the "notes/corrections on earlier editions" he says:
"The source of the live versions of "Gardening At Night" and "9-9" on the Murmur IRS Years re issue cd were incorrectly cited in early editions of 'Remnants'. The cd insert incorrectly states that the recordings were originally released as b-sides of the 'Don't Go Back To Rockville' UK 12in, which are from Paris in 1984. The recordings were actually made on July 13, 1983 at the Paradise in Boston."
 
It's asking for a decryption key. You need to use the link already with the decryption key when sharing from Mega.

Thank you so much!

I edited the link in my original post. Hopefully works now.
Sharing "link with key" always sounds like the wrong way to do it. Like someone would need a key to access it. I can never remember which is which... :unsure:
 

gargumma

Active Member
I edited the link in my original post. Hopefully works now.
Sharing "link with key" always sounds like the wrong way to do it. Like someone would need a key to access it. I can never remember which is which... :unsure:

I fully agree it's weird. It's like "come to my house and bring your key and open my door yourself".
 

nyc_midy

Member
“For about twenty minutes in Ottawa last August, the four members of R.E.M. thought they were the most boring rock & roll band on the planet. Marching soberly into their first number, the harsh, funereal “Feeling Gravitys Pull,” at a local club called Barrymore’s, they trudged through half a dozen songs like studio zombies, hitting every note and plucking every string with numbing accuracy. Their performance was tight, absolutely correct — and utterly lifeless. The sell-out crowd greeted them like conquering heroes, the hip generals of America’s New Music revolt. But R.E.M. knew this was third-rate entertainment, rock by numbers, and they hated themselves for it.

So they hit the covers with a vengeance, starting with clumsy stomps through Brownsville Station’s “Smokin’ in the Boys’ Room” and Lynyrd Skynyrd’s “Sweet Home Alabama.” Singer Michael Stipe recited the Sex Pistols’ “God Save the Queen” and blew half the lyrics to “Secret Agent Man.” Guitarist Peter Buck challenged a heckler who yelled “f*** you” during their a cappella reading of “Moon River” to come backstage after the show, presumably for a good beating. By the end of the set, songs by Marc Bolan, Jonathan Richman and the Monkees had been fried beyond recognition, in spite of Bill Berry’s yeoman drumming, and Buck had ripped most of Stipe’s clothing to shreds. This is how R.E.M. is changing the face of American rock & roll?” - David Fricke/Rolling Stone Nov 7, 1985

SETLIST

1. Feeling Gravitys Pull
2. Radio Free Europe
3. Letter Never Sent
4. Pills [Bo Diddley/New York Dolls]
5. Can’t Get There From Here
6. 7 Chinese Bros.
7. Laughing
8. Driver 8
9. Maps and Legends
10. Fall on Me
11. Have You Ever Seen the Rain? [Creedence Clearwater Revival]
12. West of the Fields
13. Auctioneer (Another Engine)
14. Old Man Kensey
15. Pretty Persuasion
16. Moral Kiosk
17. Life and How to Live It

ENCORE 1
1. Moon River [Audrey Hepburn/Andy Williams]
2. I Can’t Control Myself [The Troggs]
3. 1,000,000 — includes Fascists Eat Donuts [Pop-O-Pies]
4. I Can Only Give You Everything [Them/The Troggs]

ENCORE 2
5. Tired of Singing Trouble/Boy (Go) [Golden Palominos]/Paint It Black [Rolling Stones]
6. In the Year 2525 [Zager and Evans]
7. Smokin’ in the Boys’ Room [Brownsville Station]
8. Sweet Home Alabama [Lynyrd Skynyrd]
9. (I’m Not Your) Stepping Stone [Paul Revere & The Raiders/The Monkees] — includes 1 2 X U [Wire]
10. Secret Agent Man [Johnny Rivers]
11. The Lion Sleeps Tonight [The Tokens]
12. God Save the Queen [Sex Pistols]
13. Roadrunner [The Modern Lovers] — includes 1 2 X U [Wire]
14. 20th Century Boy [T.Rex]
15. Skank

ENCORE 3
16. Carnival of Sorts (Boxcars

Rolling Stone Article: https://www.rollingstone.com/…/r-e-m-s-southern-fried-art-…/

newly remastered boot of the show (FLAC): https://wetransfer.com/…/e2b1236346e6b28b12a6a8627b5…/a4fd75
 
D

DrummerMark

Guest
Hi guys,

There's a fantastic radio broadcast quality show from Oslo in 2003 that has been doing the rounds in mp3 format but i've been unable to locate a lossless version. Can anyone help? The show is; R.E.M. Fabrikken, Oslo, Norway 2003-10-25

I'm also after a lossless copy of the Madison Square Garden show from 2003-10-04 and Prague 2008-08-17 (I have both in mp3 format but not lossless for some reason, so I know copies exist out there somewhere).

Many thanks guys!
Mark.
 

gargumma

Active Member
Hey everyone! I have MAJOR new information to my "Radio Free Europe" comparison....

I got in touch with Chris Hartstonge that runs the REM Timeline to ask what he thought about all the different versions of RFE and the "stories" behind them.
I didn't know I'd hit a goldmine....
He said he is currently working with R.E.M. on archival projects!! He actually gets to go to Athens and go in the climate controlled VAULT of master tapes!! So when he says things like "this tape resides in the archives and is labeled xxxx" he means he's physically seen and listened to it! Crazy!

Here's what he had to say after reading my "Radio Free Europe" comparison....


This topic is currently relevant as we (the band) are looking at the early recordings for future releases.
We have done quite a bit of research into the early recordings and after going through the REM archives & from earlier discussions with Mitch Easter, the following facts will put all the rumours to rest. I have read what you have written which is interesting.

As we know:
On 15 Apr 1981 the band recorded Radio Free Europe, Sitting Still & White Tornado - & was mixed the next day – which turned into the demo Cassette Set that the band sent out. For simplification we will call this 1st mix a ‘Monitor Mix’.
The Cassette Set recordings were made available in 2011, which came from my own original Cassette Set. The master tapes from this mix reside in the REM archives – at that point, ‘White Tornado’ was titled ‘Stronger Than Dirt’.

On 24 May 1981 – the band went back to Drive-In Studio with Johnny Hibbert, & recorded overdubs for RFE & SS and remixed the songs from the April masters. This mix is the Johnny Hibbert mix that was used on the released Hib-Tone Single. This mix also currently resides in the REM archives, plainly stating that it was the Hibbert mix – master mix for the Hib-Tone Single. – So this is the 2nd Mix – the Johnny Hibbert Mix. On the master tape box – plainly states ‘DNU’ – DO NOT USE.

The band were not happy with this mix, & Mitch Easter went away & remixed from the same masters - & this was done on 2-3 June 1981 according to the REM archives, & as I referenced to an interview done with Mitch Easter above, he made it clear that the Johnny Hibbert Mix was lacking in the high end, & quite muddy, & he re EQ’d, & made some other mixing adjustments which the band favoured. This is the 3rd mix – Mitch Easter’s Mix. Mitch also said that the equipment that they had for mixing was quite limited, so it was simply no more than a simple EQ over Johnny Hibbert’smix.

The masters for this 3rd mix also reside in the REM archives & have some notes with this particular master tape which will make other things clearer.

Then later in June 1981 the band & Hibbert took both mixes (the 2nd Hibbert Mix & 3rd Mitch Easter Mix) to Bombay Studios to decide which mix to go with, & as we know, Hibbert won out & the 2nd mix was used on the single. Mitch still has in his possession a 2 track safety from the songs copied when they went through the mixes that day.

So at the end we have 3 mixes:
1st Mix – Cassette Set ‘Monitor Mix’
2nd Mix – Johnny Hibbert Mix
3rd Mix – Mitch Easter Mix

The 2nd mix was used for BOTH pressings of the Hib-Tone single – we have compared transfers of both pressings & they are the same mix.

In 1988, as we know Eponymous was released, which uses Mitch Easter’s 3rd Mix – the master safety tape which they used for the compilation (which also resides in the REM archive), has descriptions of each individual song & the master tape they were taken from, & Radio Free Europe was taken from the Mitch Easter mix master tape. Also contained within the Mitch Easter Mix Master Tape is the reference to when they were used again for the ‘And I Feel Fine’ compilation in 2006 along with ‘Sitting Still’.

If you compare the Eponymous & ‘And I Feel Fine’ Radio Free Europe ‘Hib Tone’ session recordings – they are identical – same mix – the ‘And I Feel Fine’ one has been mastered louder. Both from Mitch Easter’s Mix.

So from the tapes in the REM Archives it is very clear what mixes have been used & for what releases, which was backed up from Mitch Easter’s interview testimony.

We made digital transfers from both 1st & 2nd pressings to compare the original Hib-Tone Single to the Mitch Easter Mix used on ‘Eponymous’ & ‘And I Feel Fine’, & they back up Mitch’s answers at the time.

The Hib-Tone Single lacks a lot in the high end & is quite muddy mix wise – the drums sound tbh like a ‘sack of potatoes’, & comparing to Mitch’s 3rd Mix – he has brought back a lot of the high end, the drums sound more clearer, better spatial mix between the instruments & one other difference, is the ‘noise’ that Mitch inserted at the beginning of RFE – on Johnny Hibbert’s Mix, this starts mainly on the right channel, whereas on Mitch’s Eponymous Mix, it starts more from the middle, & has some rumble before the song kicks in, which the Hibbert Mix does not have. The EQ issues are more heightened when you compare Hibbert’s & Easters Mixes for ‘Sitting Still’.




So, there we have it I guess!
The 1st & 2nd pressings of the HibTone RFE are identical. I was unsure of that till now.
Also, the HibTone IS Hibbert's mix and Eponymus REALLY IS Easter's mix as is stated everywhere I've ever read. I'm actually glad all of that isn't wrong!!
I was originally listening for obvious "differences" in the two. Like a different echo/reverb here, or a variance in a note or drumbeat there....
Turns out Easter had really "limited" (crappy?) equipment and ONLY tweaked the EQ levels in places. How lame...
How could Peter Buck (and everyone else for that matter all along the way) make SUCH A BIG DEAL over "how different" they sound and how much better the Easter mix is??!?!?

Going back, now knowing what exactly I'm listening for, I agree the Eponymous (Easter) version is "brighter" sounding and drums are "cleaner" sounding. It just has more "fidelity". I guess I just assumed that was due to it being mastered for CD for the Eponymius release.... but apparently that's what Mitch Easter did back in June '81.

Hope this helps! It finally did for me!!
 
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