Band lineup for upcoming tour

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Skylarker

Guest
I don't think this debate is that profound. I think Viva has it pretty much right. At this point I'd say there's about as much chance of Morrissey playing with Alain again as there is of Johnny playing with him again. Well, almost.

I think if Alain was asked back he'd come back in a heartbeat (or I hope he would) but for some reason known only to Morrissey, that spot is filled by Jesse. But I agree with Viva that the reason Whyte's songs are still accepted are that they are, simply, the best songs. I mean, in this construct, Alain is at least making some money selling the songs, even if he is not allowed to play them or record them. He's not a stupid guy.

I admittedly have no proof whatsoever as to the dynamics of the group, but it seems like there is definitely some kind of unbridgeable gap now. What or why, I don't claim to know, but I think you'd have to be either high or retarded to think Alain will be anything other than peripherally involved in the band anymore, as a writer.

And that sucks, because he is a great guy and a great talent and Tobias...is not.
 

Harsh Truth

Ever Felt Had?
Listen folks - all this talk makes for fun reading, but the fact remains: when the lights go down and Morrissey walks on stage, does anybody really care who the f*** is in the band?

PS: I love Boz and hope he will always be on stage with Moz

PPS: To those who say they want a return to the quieter, more subtle Viva Hate and Vauxhall records - those songs have NEVER been played quiet or gentle live.
 
S

Skylarker

Guest
To those who say they want a return to the quieter, more subtle Viva Hate and Vauxhall records - those songs have NEVER been played quiet or gentle live.

No, but they demonstrated a restraint and a finesse where recorded sound was concerned that Morrissey seems to have abandoned with the advent of Jesse. The arrangements were more delicate and more subtle, even to the point that when they were transformed on stage into very raucous, rollicking monsters, they still retained that grace...whereas the newer songs -particularly the ones written by Jesse- are just, you know, kind of OK. Fun and all that crap, but not...great.

On ROTT, Visconti muted and balanced out Jesse's influence probably as best as could be done but the combination of Finn and Tobias was just...ugh. But then, it's not like that combination will happen again.

And I think that is what people mean when they say that they want a return to the older albums' style. They miss the element of understatement. Everyone enjoys a great rock show but let's face it, other than at the concerts they will be hearing those songs alone, in private, in their rooms or their iPods or cars...and that's where the older albums really shine.

The new stuff is just too immediate, not textured enough...they are the stripper who walks onstage naked as opposed to the one who gradually takes her clothes off one at a time.
 
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Harsh Truth

Ever Felt Had?
...they are the stripper who walks onstage naked as opposed to the one who gradually takes her clothes off one at a time.

Well now you are just getting me all worked up. :D
 

!Viva Hate!

Well-Known Member
Listen folks - all this talk makes for fun reading, but the fact remains: when the lights go down and Morrissey walks on stage, does anybody really care who the f*** is in the band?

I care. Anyone who actually wants to hear the music done justice should care too. Even when Alain was loud, he wasn't a muddled mess...the band currently lacks the melodic sound it had with him. Tobias can't handle Alain's songs and he SURE can't handle Marr's.

PPS: To those who say they want a return to the quieter, more subtle Viva Hate and Vauxhall records - those songs have NEVER been played quiet or gentle live.

'Late Night, Maudlin Street', 'Everyday Is Like Sunday', 'Now My Heart Is Full', 'I Am Hated For Loving', 'Used To Be A Sweet Boy', and 'Why Don't You Find Out For Yourself' disagrees with that statement. Lol.
 

mcrickson

Reckless Endangerment
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You are an absolute idiot and hypocrite. You base your whole pointless diatribes on your "truth"...expecting ME to provide legitimacy to my statements (that you'll obviously denounce as fraudulent either way) while you provide nothing but conjecture based solely on your reading of a wikipedia article. You are a joke.

No, I didn't mean to say "a couple OF"...if that was what I wanted to say, I would have said it. My statement was completely proper. Obviously, your grasp on the English language is just as weak as your grasp on reality. You may want to visit a library to study up on contractions...that is if you can find someone from the asylum to chaperone you.

It doesn't matter who he writes songs for...if they aren't being bought, he isn't getting paid...or do you think his royalties grow from a tree in his backyard? When Alain starts writing hit singles for people other than Morrissey, you'll have a point...until then, you don't. The facts remain the same.

Your username is appropriate. You could use one..

"You are an absolute idiot and a hypocrite"

Ahem.

An excellent start to your counter argument and one that doesn't make you look a bit desperate, foolish and easily provoked.

Nope.

Absolutely not.

I would say an opening gambit like that makes you look thoughtful, considered and totally in control of your emotions.

"...that you will obviously denounce as fraudulent..."

I don't know about that.

If you were able to provide the complete transcript of the interview with Alain where he said the ONLY reason he didn't play live with Morrissey anymore was because he hadn't been asked I wouldn't denounce that as fraudulent.

Even providing the direct quote would be something I would find difficult to denounce...I'd have to say "Well, those (on the surface) appear to be Alains words and his assessment of the situation" and then I would have to say that you were right.

I don't have any problem with that.

Adults have the capacity for recognising when they are wrong.

I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again and I might even be wrong here.

"...based solely on your reading of a wikipedia article..."

Shouldn't wikipedia start with a capital?

Sorry.

Um, I haven't read a Wikipedia article on any of this.

As others have hinted at on the "Kit" debate I have known Alain for many, many years. While nothing I am saying here is "from the horses mouth" it is based on a bit more than conjecture and Wikipedia.

"...as weak as your grasp on reality..."

From the person who is, thus far, unable to provide any evidence for their claim that "these are Alains words"...hmmmm.

"It doesn't matter who he writes songs for...if they aren't being bought, he isn't getting paid...or do you think his royalties grow from a tree in his backyard? When Alain starts writing hit singles for people other than Morrissey, you'll have a point...until then, you don't. The facts remain the same."

Ah, yes...but his songs are being bought.

Bought by the very people I have already referenced and by the producers of the television shows which feature his music.

If you think that doesn't provide enough money to pay the rent I suggest you take a look at any of the properties Alain owns...owns and not rents.

The facts do remain the same.

You have, thus far, provided no proof for your assertion.

Alain earns considerably more from his writing work than he would touring with Morrissey and doesn't have to tolerate the prospect of bumping into you outside of any show in Tampon.

That's a very childish "joke" isn't it?

I'm not sure it's even a joke.

It's certainly not funny, big or clever but I'm fairly sure it irks you.

That'll do.

That'll do.
 

!Viva Hate!

Well-Known Member
Yawn.

Desperate? You mean like someone who changes the name of a city to a sanitary product & insults all of said city's inhabitants because they are arguing about a guitarist 99% of the world has never heard of? THAT is what makes you an idiot.

Q: With the arrival of Jesse Tobias, will you still be in Moz's touring band for '06?
A: I do not know if I will be asked.

http://torr.typepad.com/weblog/2005/12/alain_whyte_qa.html

That isn't a "No. I'm too busy being married, living in LA, producing records, playing with other bands, & writing for other artists and Gossip Girl. Plus I've made a ton off royalties." That is "the guy who replaced me in '04 hasn't been sacked and I'm considered a third wheel at this point." Three tours later...

Of course, as you expect me to provide a transcript of Alain saying this I can't help but wonder where YOUR transcript is of Alain saying he isn't touring with Morrissey because of everything you've claimed. You can't. THAT is what makes you a hypocrite.
 
Yawn.

Desperate? You mean like someone who changes the name of a city to a sanitary product & insults all of said city's inhabitants because they are arguing about a guitarist 99% of the world has never heard of? THAT is what makes you an idiot.

Q: With the arrival of Jesse Tobias, will you still be in Moz's touring band for '06?
A: I do not know if I will be asked.

http://torr.typepad.com/weblog/2005/12/alain_whyte_qa.html

That isn't a "No. I'm too busy being married, living in LA, producing records, playing with other bands, & writing for other artists and Gossip Girl. Plus I've made a ton off royalties." That is "the guy who replaced me in '04 hasn't been sacked and I'm considered a third wheel at this point." Three tours later...

Of course, as you expect me to provide a transcript of Alain saying this I can't help but wonder where YOUR transcript is of Alain saying he isn't touring with Morrissey because of everything you've claimed. You can't. THAT is what makes you a hypocrite.

That isn't the definition of a hypocrite.

Insulting someone or somewhere and holding different opinions to people doesn't make you an idiot.

Still.

Thanks for the quote.

It doesn't quite support your position or completely undermine my own but...there you go.

As they say in Tampon, Floridull...have a nice day.
 

Jamie

Bluff, Ardour & Assoc.
No, but they demonstrated a restraint and a finesse where recorded sound was concerned that Morrissey seems to have abandoned with the advent of Jesse. The arrangements were more delicate and more subtle, even to the point that when they were transformed on stage into very raucous, rollicking monsters, they still retained that grace...whereas the newer songs -particularly the ones written by Jesse- are just, you know, kind of OK. Fun and all that crap, but not...great.

My feelings exactly. I understand that every player wants to put their own "mark" on another writer's songs, but Jesse often gives the impression of trying to intentionally play Alain's songs poorly. (Or, rather, Alain's guitar parts - he all but eviscerated the grace of the "Reader Meet Author" solo.)
 

!Viva Hate!

Well-Known Member
I don't think Morrissey has much confidence in Tobias' proficiency as a guitarist. I mean, just look at YOR...when a song requires more than a power chord, someone else takes lead.

Black Cloud - Jeff Beck plays the intro and outro.
When Last I Spoke To Carol - Boz plays lead.
It's Not Your Birthday Anymore - Boz plays lead.
You Were Good In Your Time - Boz plays lead.

I don't think Jesse purposely plays anything poorly...he's just in over his head with Whyte and Marr songs.

Morrissey needs to bring Alain back...however, if he's reluctant to fire Jesse he can just give him James Maker's old job of standing in the corner and dancing.
 

lleni

New Member
Hey, i didnt know Gustavo Manzur were from Colombia! i am too, so i'd like to give him a greeting, i was so excited when i knew!!, anyone know his facebook or something?, i really want to congratulate him
maybe he can make Moz and his band to come to these far places
 
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