Billy Bragg on free speech, Morrissey, and the resurgence of the Far Right - GQ Magazine

New GQ Article by Billy Bragg:

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/music/article/billy-bragg-interview-morrissey-free-speech

Excerpt: "So, call it what it is, says Bragg. Morrissey is now a man who knowingly shares white supremacist material on his platforms and, when challenged, doubles down. And while he is free to do so, that doesn’t mean he’s a victim when there’s a backlash. “Liberty without accountability is impunity, which is the most dangerous kind of freedom. Freedom isn't a universal good. There are kinds of freedom that are really, really dangerous.”
 

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
Do they? I didn't see it that way but I think the hardest thing about statistics is their interpretation.
The stats you provided prove that a certain group contain within their number a disproportionately colossal amount of violent and hateful people that cannot control their uncivil behavior.

This seems to be the case wherever this group of people are found, in whatever part of the world.

But even more baffling is the total ban on debate or discussion about this subject, because problems can only be solved by being addressed, and this problem is not going away.
 

The Truth

about Ruth
The stats you provided prove that a certain group contain within their number a disproportionately colossal amount of violent and hateful people that cannot control their uncivil behavior.

This seems to be the case wherever this group of people are found, in whatever part of the world.

But even more baffling is the total ban on debate or discussion about this subject, because problems can only be solved by being addressed, and this problem is not going away.

No, you have to first consider the difference between evidence and proof, which I'm sure you are aware of.
Statistics don't prove anything. They can barely be used as evidence and even then only informally in order to develop an opinion or theory.
It doesn't matter what set of statistics we're talking about. They are all approximations and all are subject to the dreaded interpretation, which, much like translation does to language, can cause them to have a completely different meaning not only to what was intended but also from one reader to another. Statistics should not of course be meant to have any particular bias, but nearly all do.
Part of what was contained in the link I sent was the idea that young blacks are often prosecuted for the same crimes that young whites may get away with, not because judges or police are racist but because young whites might commit these crimes in areas with less police presence to begin with.
Also, the statistics that I've just said are basically useless but which you seem to find provide evidence, indicate that young white females are much more likely to commit crimes than young black females. I don't know why that might be.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
No, you have to first consider the difference between evidence and proof, which I'm sure you are aware of.
Statistics don't prove anything. They can barely be used as evidence and even then only informally in order to develop an opinion or theory.
It doesn't matter what set of statistics we're talking about. They are all approximations and all are subject to the dreaded interpretation, which, much like translation does to language, can cause them to have a completely different meaning not only to what was intended but also from one reader to another. Statistics should not of course be meant to have any particular bias, but nearly all do.
Part of what was contained in the link I sent was the idea that young blacks are often prosecuted for the same crimes that young whites may get away with, not because judges or police are racist but because young whites might commit these crimes in areas with less police presence to begin with.
Also, the statistics that I've just said are basically useless but which you seem to find provide evidence, indicate that young white females are much more likely to commit crimes than young black females. I don't know why that might be.
So, why did you provide them?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
So, why did you provide them?

Because he thought it would work in his favour, but now he realises it doesn't work in his favour so he says it doesn't matter. And he's providing his usual word salad to weasel his way back out of it. What a mush mouth.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Because he thought it would work in his favour, but now he realises it doesn't work in his favour so he says it doesn't matter. And he's providing his usual word salad to weasel his way back out of it. What a mush mouth.
So true.:rofl:
 

21punksalute

Junior Member
I love “Sexuality”. It’s Bills only listenable song. In it he brags about finding “common ground” with other homosexuals like himself he might differ with . Funny now when he disagrees with Morrissey, that self congratulatory grandstanding has all disappeared.
I know you’re not supposed to call people retarded ( I get it) but I actually believe Bill is truly retarded.
 

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
No, you have to first consider the difference between evidence and proof, which I'm sure you are aware of.
Statistics don't prove anything. They can barely be used as evidence and even then only informally in order to develop an opinion or theory.
It doesn't matter what set of statistics we're talking about. They are all approximations and all are subject to the dreaded interpretation, which, much like translation does to language, can cause them to have a completely different meaning not only to what was intended but also from one reader to another. Statistics should not of course be meant to have any particular bias, but nearly all do.
Part of what was contained in the link I sent was the idea that young blacks are often prosecuted for the same crimes that young whites may get away with, not because judges or police are racist but because young whites might commit these crimes in areas with less police presence to begin with.
Also, the statistics that I've just said are basically useless but which you seem to find provide evidence, indicate that young white females are much more likely to commit crimes than young black females. I don't know why that might be.
You have a knack of sounding like you don't quite believe in your own arguments. There's a clumsy facetiousness here, almost like you're trying to deny that water is wet.

My argument wins.

But what's new...
 
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reelfountain

Well-Known Member
I'm very sad that this kind of stuff is happening in your area. I've watched areas of London become infected by it, and it changes the demographic very quickly because people with families simply move away. I've just read the Gazette comments and as usual there's a mix of realists and delusionists having their say. Someone said they'd rather be considered a clown than a bigot. I would rather the reverse.

Denial is a psychological comfort blanket to many people when confronted by shocking truths, one of which is the fact that black people are by their very nature more aggressive and violent than whites, and in many cases, far less empathetic it seems (look at videos of whites being mugged in SA and blacks walking idly by). This notion goes against the semi-Christian values all of us in the UK have been brought up with, that of human equality. So it's not exactly surprising that people throw up firewalls, refusing to open their eyes for fear of what they might really see.

So when black muggings begin happening in a predominantly white area things are usually allowed to escalate because of this uniquely white denialism, coupled with a British habit of 'not making a fuss'.

Naturally I hope they're caught - not by the police who will only process them through our weak judicial system that will pamper them for a year or so, but by someone who will give them what they rightfully deserve which is a round from a shotgun at close range into each of their already ugly faces.
 
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Stephen Hofmann

Well-Known Member
I'm very sad that this kind of stuff is happening in your area. I've watched areas of London become infected by it, and it changes the demographic very quickly because people with families simply move away. I've just read the Gazette comments and as usual there's a mix of realists and delusionists having their say. Someone said they'd rather be considered a clown than a bigot. I would rather the reverse.

Denial is a psychological comfort blanket to many people when confronted by shocking truths, one of which is the fact that black people are by their very nature more aggressive and violent than whites, and in many cases, far less empathetic it seems (look at videos of whites being mugged in SA and blacks walking idly by). This notion goes against the semi-Christian values all of us in the UK have been brought up with, that of human equality. So it's not exactly surprising that people throw up firewalls, refusing to open their eyes for fear of what they might really see.

So when black muggings begin happening in a predominantly white area things are usually allowed to escalate because of this uniquely white denialism, coupled with a British habit of 'not making a fuss'.

Naturally I hope they're caught - not by the police who will only process them through our weak judicial system that will pamper them for a year so, but by someone who will give them what they rightfully deserve which is a round from a shotgun at close range into each of their already ugly faces.

That could have been me. I often go to the local shops at night but there's been so many incidents over the last couple of yrs, I've seriously thought about going out with some "protection".
 

Stephen Hofmann

Well-Known Member
I'm very sad that this kind of stuff is happening in your area. I've watched areas of London become infected by it, and it changes the demographic very quickly because people with families simply move away. I've just read the Gazette comments and as usual there's a mix of realists and delusionists having their say. Someone said they'd rather be considered a clown than a bigot. I would rather the reverse.

Denial is a psychological comfort blanket to many people when confronted by shocking truths, one of which is the fact that black people are by their very nature more aggressive and violent than whites, and in many cases, far less empathetic it seems (look at videos of whites being mugged in SA and blacks walking idly by). This notion goes against the semi-Christian values all of us in the UK have been brought up with, that of human equality. So it's not exactly surprising that people throw up firewalls, refusing to open their eyes for fear of what they might really see.

So when black muggings begin happening in a predominantly white area things are usually allowed to escalate because of this uniquely white denialism, coupled with a British habit of 'not making a fuss'.

Naturally I hope they're caught - not by the police who will only process them through our weak judicial system that will pamper them for a year or so, but by someone who will give them what they rightfully deserve which is a round from a shotgun at close range into each of their already ugly faces.


 
A

Anonymous

Guest
In this video Billy Bragg talks about Morrissey, cynicism and misogyny. Billy Bragg shares some thoughts at an impromptu benefit gig for Ferguson in St. Louis, Missouri in the USA, on 20th August, 2014. Billy Bragg says in the video that this gig is in a "pub garden":


In this video Billy Bragg shows his "Morrissey is a Racist" t-shirt to the crowd. Why is Billy Bragg doing this? Billy Bragg also talks about his love and support for "Extinction Rebellion". Billy Bragg then sings his 1640's folk song "The World Turned Upside Down" live at the 'Bowery Ballroom' in New York City 27th September 2019:


Morrissey isn't a racist at all. Morrissey said (around 2007): "I abhor racism and oppression or cruelty of any kind and will not let this pass without being absolutely clear and emphatic with regard to what my position is. Racism is beyond common sense and I believe it has no place in our society. To anyone who has shown or felt any interest in my music in recent times, you know my feelings on the subject..."

"Love Music Hate Racism" accepted a donation of £28,000 from Morrissey (around 2007).

I don't understand what is going on with Billy Bragg. Billy Bragg is a supporter of "Extinction Rebellion" and the LGBTQ movement. Billy Bragg loves folk music, punk rock and skiffle music. In recent years Billy Bragg has become a big fan of the Grime artist/rapper Stormzy.

I'm one of the few people who is a fan of both Morrissey and Stormzy. I like the fact that Morrissey and Stormzy have kept a dignified silence over this. Billy Bragg though has been and continues to be very vocal. I like Stormzy because he is a Christian and some of his songs are about his Christian faith.

I'm trying to work out when Billy Bragg first started hating on Morrissey. I'm guessing it was back in the 1980s? Billy Bragg seems to be jealous of Morrissey.

Morrissey isn't right-wing or left-wing and he hasn't voted in elections for years. Morrissey’s politics might of seemed left-wing in the 1980s in that he was anti-Margaret Thatcher ("Margaret on the Guillotine"), anti-monarchy ("The Queen Is Dead") and with his uncompromising attitude towards animal rights ("Meat Is Murder"). The Smiths played at the Greater London Council’s "Jobs for a Change" festival in 1984 and appeared on one of Billy Bragg's socialist "Red Wedge" tours in 1986.

Billy Bragg seems to have antisemitic views and seems to support Palestine rather than Israel. Maybe another reason why Billy Bragg doesn't like Morrissey is the fact that Morrissey is a big supporter of the Jewish State of Israel. Like Morrissey I'm a big supporter of Israel. Another difference is that Billy Bragg is a Remainer and Morrissey is a Brexiteer (although he didn't physically vote for Brexit).

Elvis Costello (who was also part of Billy Bragg's "Red Wedge" tours) once cancelled two concerts he was scheduled to play in Israel in protest at its treatment of Palestinians. Elvis Costello is also very critical of Morrissey. Elvis Costello was once accused of racism himself because of something he said about the late, great Ray Charles.

I don't know that much about Paul Weller and Joolz Denby they were also part of Billy Bragg's "Red Wedge" tours.

Billy Bragg said “Whenever a Smiths track comes up I flip on … I just can’t … I love Johnny Marr, he’s the nicest man I ever met in pop music. So I really feel for him that the great work that he’s done should be tainted in this way.”

What Billy Bragg doesn't understand is that The Smiths are now also tainted for Morrissey himself after what Mike Joyce and Andy Rourke did to him. Billy Bragg seems to be friends with Johnny Marr and Andy Rourke. Johnny Marr and Andy Rourke both follow Billy Bragg on Twitter. Johnny Marr also follows something called "Hope not Hate" on Twitter. "Hope not Hate" is an advocacy group based in the UK. It campaigns against racism and fascism, and seeks to "combine first class research with community organising and grassroots actions to defeat hate groups at elections and to build community resilience against extremism".

I wish that Billy Bragg would be more supportive of Morrissey's solo career rather than constantly focusing on The Smiths and the past.
 

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
Yes, the completely needless push of that woman just to prove his aggression seems about right. It exemplifies my earlier points perfectly. I've actually witnessed that kind of behavior; it's a definite pattern - and speaks volumes about what this type of black person innately thinks of white people.

We've been fed all our lives with a weird ideology that insists whites are the oppressors and black people are somehow weak and in need of our protection. This sham has continued for so long not only due to ignorance to the truth, but because of numbers. But now that demographics have changed so much and this behavior is not only being witnessed by more people in real life but on the net also, the old ideology is sounding more than ever like the hollow fantasy it really is.

Whites have been the actual victims and blacks the aggressors all along. Nobody told us this; and those who know only worked it out for themselves. But of course to some extent there will always be the deniers - in other words mentally weak people who will cling to that safety blanket even when it's threadbare and full of holes.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I'm very sad that this kind of stuff is happening in your area. I've watched areas of London become infected by it, and it changes the demographic very quickly because people with families simply move away. I've just read the Gazette comments and as usual there's a mix of realists and delusionists having their say. Someone said they'd rather be considered a clown than a bigot. I would rather the reverse.

Denial is a psychological comfort blanket to many people when confronted by shocking truths, one of which is the fact that black people are by their very nature more aggressive and violent than whites, and in many cases, far less empathetic it seems (look at videos of whites being mugged in SA and blacks walking idly by). This notion goes against the semi-Christian values all of us in the UK have been brought up with, that of human equality. So it's not exactly surprising that people throw up firewalls, refusing to open their eyes for fear of what they might really see.

So when black muggings begin happening in a predominantly white area things are usually allowed to escalate because of this uniquely white denialism, coupled with a British habit of 'not making a fuss'.

Naturally I hope they're caught - not by the police who will only process them through our weak judicial system that will pamper them for a year or so, but by someone who will give them what they rightfully deserve which is a round from a shotgun at close range into each of their already ugly faces.
Authors David Horowitz and Colin Flaherty often address these issues in their books.
 

Stephen Hofmann

Well-Known Member
Yes, the completely needless push of that woman just to prove his aggression seems about right. It exemplifies my earlier points perfectly. I've actually witnessed that kind of behavior; it's a definite pattern - and speaks volumes about what this type of black person innately thinks of white people.

We've been fed all our lives with a weird ideology that insists whites are the oppressors and black people are somehow weak and in need of our protection. This sham has continued for so long not only due to ignorance to the truth, but because of numbers. But now that demographics have changed so much and this behavior is not only being witnessed by more people in real life but on the net also, the old ideology is sounding more than ever like the hollow fantasy it really is.

Whites have been the actual victims and blacks the aggressors all along. Nobody told us this; and those who know only worked it out for themselves. But of course to some extent there will always be the deniers - in other words mentally weak people who will cling to that safety blanket even when it's threadbare and full of holes.

Speaking of demographics -
 

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