Morrissey Central But Before You Go, Can You Look At The Truth - Fiona tweet, concert footage from 2011, UK doctors / vegan article (May 17, 2020)

"OPINION"
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"ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST"


"BUT BEFORE YOU GO, CAN YOU LOOK AT THE TRUTH?"
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Fiona's tweet, concert footage (of Still Ill) & an article about UK doctors going vegan to prevent future global pandemics.
 
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joe frady

Vile Refusenik
The independent voice of reason. Right?

And by the way in case you hadn't noticed before, and I've been telling you long enough - La Dodwell's points are all about money.

Do you get it now?

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:tiphat:

.
 

TonyMaroneythePony

Well-Known Member
This will be the turning point that gives the left wing media nuts introspection....happy pay day, Moz...
 
Yes sure. Number three for a week and out of the charts. Didn’t chart anywhere else in the world except Poland. Half sold shows in small venues. Defend Morrissey if you want, but don’t spin reality when the facts don’t back you up.
The Morrissey brand is toxic.
Where were these "half sold shows in small venues" that you speak of?
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Because it was published and it WAS terrible. But that does raise an interesting question. I mean, at what point do you draw the line between personal opinion and fact? If I write a book, and every page just says: 'Fish fingers and custard tralalalalalahhhhh', and someone was mad enough to publish it, would it not be reasonable to say it was a terrible book? Or would that still just be spite on the part of journalists/unpublished authors? Or just someone's personal opinion, and therefore not conclusive?

I'm all for subjectivity in art but there surely comes a point, if a tsunami of people are all saying the same thing, when the consensus view becomes fact. I also think it's hard to imagine LotL fighting its way out of the slush pile had its author not been Morrissey.

The terrible bit isn't the point.

The intensity of the emotional reaction was the point. It was like his reaction to getting an invoice.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Yes sure. Number three for a week and out of the charts. Didn’t chart anywhere else in the world except Poland. Half sold shows in small venues. Defend Morrissey if you want, but don’t spin reality when the facts don’t back you up.
The Morrissey brand is toxic.

The facts do back her up.

& whether any brand is toxic or not is pure spin.

You can spew hate if it keeps you amused & she can waft love.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Yes sure. Number three for a week and out of the charts. Didn’t chart anywhere else in the world except Poland. Half sold shows in small venues. Defend Morrissey if you want, but don’t spin reality when the facts don’t back you up.
The Morrissey brand is toxic.
Dog On A Chain is currently at No.52 in Scotland where it did reach No.1 so it has actually done well here. It has been in the Top 100 for seven weeks. I was at Leeds and London, both gigs were great and well attended. You haven't a clue sunshine.
 

Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
Dog On A Chain is currently at No.52 in Scotland where it did reach No.1 so it has actually done well here. It has been in the Top 100 for seven weeks. I was at Leeds and London, both gigs were great and well attended. You haven't a clue sunshine.

Leeds was well attended in the space they made available, which was 60% of the venue. I don't think being number 1 in Scotland is anything to shout about. It was number 3 in the UK on Friday and out of the top 100 by Monday, which was a shame as its his most solid album for a while.
 

Hovis Lesley

Well-Known Member
Leeds was well attended in the space they made available, which was 60% of the venue. I don't think being number 1 in Scotland is anything to shout about. It was number 3 in the UK on Friday and out of the top 100 by Monday, which was a shame as its his most solid album for a while.
Well, on this I have to agree with you. I was at Wembley Arena last year, to see 21 pilots, I know what a well attended concert there looks like (f***ing packed standing and seated).

I was at the Morrissey gig: it wasn’t well attended. I wish it had been. I feel he deserved it. But it wasn’t.

The album is brilliant. The sales were poor. I couldn’t describe it as anything other than a commercial failure, if an artistic success.
 
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gashonthenail

Well-Known Member
The independent voice of reason. Right?

And by the way in case you hadn't noticed before, and I've been telling you long enough - La Dodwell's points are all about money.

Do you get it now?

Isn't it fun being lectured by the arrogant obsessive that is Skinny?
I pity the poor wife.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Leeds was well attended in the space they made available, which was 60% of the venue. I don't think being number 1 in Scotland is anything to shout about. It was number 3 in the UK on Friday and out of the top 100 by Monday, which was a shame as its his most solid album for a while.
Yeah your right re Leeds but 8000 fans plus Moz & The Band had a great night so all positive there. I was replying to the other poster who said the album hadn't done well anywhere other than Poland and yes I am going to shout about Dog doing well in Scotland, I'm Scottish and proud to be a Morrissey fan and delighted Dog has been in the chart for seven weeks.
Yes I'm aware of the high charting at No.3 in UK chart then dropping out a week later but you can't take away the No.3 for Dog and that's what the record books will say. That said I'm still surprised at that drop, seemed unreal.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Well, on this I have to agree with you. I was at Wembley Arena last year, to see 21 pilots, I know what a well attended concert there looks like (f***ing packed standing and seated).

I was at the Morrissey gig: it wasn’t well attended. I wish it had been. I feel he deserved it. But it wasn’t.

The album is brilliant. The sales were poor. I couldn’t describe it as anything other than a commercial failure, if an artistic success.
Do you remember the talk in the build up to Wembley's gig about how nobody should be going and the gig should be cancelled due to the virus? There were genuine fans worried about going who pulled out on the day of gig losing the cost of their ticket(s). Do you also remember that the gig was on Sat 14th March and lockdown pretty much happened on Mon 16th? Was any of this stuff happening in or around the build up to your 21 Pilots gig? I was at Wembley and I would estimate 8000 were there, two thirds of venue, that was very decent considering what was going on with the virus panic in the build up. Remember Paris was cancelled because of the French lockdown four days previous.
 

The Chameleon

#KingGamma
The independent voice of reason. Right?

And by the way in case you hadn't noticed before, and I've been telling you long enough - La Dodwell's points are all about money.

Do you get it now?
That you're not the only one obsessed with money?
Because it was published and it WAS terrible. But that does raise an interesting question. I mean, at what point do you draw the line between personal opinion and fact? If I write a book, and every page just says: 'Fish fingers and custard tralalalalalahhhhh', and someone was mad enough to publish it, would it not be reasonable to say it was a terrible book? Or would that still just be spite on the part of journalists/unpublished authors? Or just someone's personal opinion, and therefore not conclusive?

I'm all for subjectivity in art but there surely comes a point, if a tsunami of people are all saying the same thing, when the consensus view becomes fact. I also think it's hard to imagine LotL fighting its way out of the slush pile had its author not been Morrissey.

No. Opinions don't become facts based on consensus. I probably would agree with you if I read the book but I wouldn't think that my opinion was no longer subjective.
I think Karen actually has a point this time. People who see themselves in competition with Morrissey have a right to an opinion but the bitterness isn't so much that this book was bad. It's that their own book was somehow slighted.
I have a friend who is a painter and he's pretty good but he focuses on how bad some very successful painters are. He thinks they use tricks and gimmicks and they probably do. But are those people his competition? He does something else.
Publishing Morrissey's book probably helped other books sell the same way that a blockbuster musical release used to help sell other people's records because it got people to go to the record shops. But I don't think it kept anyone from being published. And I think that is what the bitterness is based on. "Why not mine? It's better than this trash!"
 

The Chameleon

#KingGamma
The independent voice of reason. Right?

And by the way in case you hadn't noticed before, and I've been telling you long enough - La Dodwell's points are all about money.

Do you get it now?

No. You see reaching an audience in terms of money. She's not talking about money. She's saying that he hasn't been cancelled because people are buying the record and going to the shows. Yes this does translate into financial success but that doesn't mean it's the point.
"Do you get it now?" No. You don't. And you won't. This isn't about Morrissey. It's about you. You'll still be posting here when you're on a life support machine and it won't make a bit of difference.
 

Hovis Lesley

Well-Known Member
Do you remember the talk in the build up to Wembley's gig about how nobody should be going and the gig should be cancelled due to the virus? There were genuine fans worried about going who pulled out on the day of gig losing the cost of their ticket(s). Do you also remember that the gig was on Sat 14th March and lockdown pretty much happened on Mon 16th? Was any of this stuff happening in or around the build up to your 21 Pilots gig? I was at Wembley and I would estimate 8000 were there, two thirds of venue, that was very decent considering what was going on with the virus panic in the build up. Remember Paris was cancelled because of the French lockdown four days previous.
That’s all fair enough, but Fiona talked of ‘huge’ crowds and ‘filled’ arenas. That sounds alarm bells, for me. I don’t see how it helps—in terms of Morrissey continuing as a force in pop music.

My guess for London, based on a comparison with 21 pilots, would be 6,500 in attendance.

Had the sales figures for Dog been good, I could blame the pandemic, and rest easy.

I’ve seen The Sex Pistols and The Charlatans in massive venues, half-full. The former packed in, the latter carried on regardless playing smaller venues. But no one in attendance was under any illusion about what had happened. And both sets of artists recognised a need to act: one saved their memory, the other saved their future. If Morrissey refuses to make some change—due to some denial—he risks f***ing up both. I don’t want to see that.
 

Peppermint

Well-Known Member
That you're not the only one obsessed with money?


No. Opinions don't become facts based on consensus. I probably would agree with you if I read the book but I wouldn't think that my opinion was no longer subjective.
I think Karen actually has a point this time. People who see themselves in competition with Morrissey have a right to an opinion but the bitterness isn't so much that this book was bad. It's that their own book was somehow slighted.
I have a friend who is a painter and he's pretty good but he focuses on how bad some very successful painters are. He thinks they use tricks and gimmicks and they probably do. But are those people his competition? He does something else.
Publishing Morrissey's book probably helped other books sell the same way that a blockbuster musical release used to help sell other people's records because it got people to go to the record shops. But I don't think it kept anyone from being published. And I think that is what the bitterness is based on. "Why not mine? It's better than this trash!"
My point was about his book being bad, irrespective of whether people are bitter about it being published or not. There are some levels of bad that are just beyond redemption - trying to pin this on 'bitterness' is sort of perverting the facts, and that's what annoys me.
 

The Chameleon

#KingGamma
My point was about his book being bad, irrespective of whether people are bitter about it being published or not. There are some levels of bad that are just beyond redemption - trying to pin this on 'bitterness' is sort of perverting the facts, and that's what annoys me.
I could see that. I thought most of the articles about the book were just making fun of Morrissey and not really bitter. I'm sure there are lots of bad books, though. His was published because of who he is but was also attacked because of who he is.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
That’s all fair enough, but Fiona talked of ‘huge’ crowds and ‘filled’ arenas. That sounds alarm bells, for me. I don’t see how it helps—in terms of Morrissey continuing as a force in pop music.

My guess for London, based on a comparison with 21 pilots, would be 6,500 in attendance.

Had the sales figures for Dog been good, I could blame the pandemic, and rest easy.

I’ve seen The Sex Pistols and The Charlatans in massive venues, half-full. The former packed in, the latter carried on regardless playing smaller venues. But no one in attendance was under any illusion about what had happened. And both sets of artists recognised a need to act: one saved their memory, the other saved their future. If Morrissey refuses to make some change—due to some denial—he risks f***ing up both. I don’t want to see that.
You know whatever the exact figures that made it into Wembley that night and ticket sales as a whole, we'll never know but Moz put on a great 24 song set that night and everything seemed to go well from what I could see.
Not sure analogies with any other bands make any sense when Moz is concerned tbh.
 

Peppermint

Well-Known Member
I could see that. I thought most of the articles about the book were just making fun of Morrissey and not really bitter. I'm sure there are lots of bad books, though. His was published because of who he is but was also attacked because of who he is.
There is some truth in that. I genuinely believe the savaging it got was wholly justified, on literary terms. But I think there was some glee in it being as bad as it was, because it was Morrissey.
 

BookishBoy

Well-Known Member
There is some truth in that. I genuinely believe the savaging it got was wholly justified, on literary terms. But I think there was some glee in it being as bad as it was, because it was Morrissey.

Exactly right. It's a flat-out terrible novel by any measure, and no publisher in the world would have signed it up had its author not been famous. (And whose previous book had generated a lot of money.) But the pile-on was very much exacerbated by the anti-Morrissey sentiment of the London media crowd.
 
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