Californians - please tell these ridiculous bastards that they're being ridiculous bastards

Oh my god. it's Robby!

spontaneously luminescent
I forgot what the topic was about :confused: amazing how often that happens here :cool:
now that I think about it, its not very different from what is going in California with the evolution debate :crazy:
but extremists bore me, whether they be for god, no god or just seem to love to argue :straightface:
 
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Anonymous

Guest
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge'.”
~ Isaac Asimov
 

Charlie Cheswick

Well-Known Member
I forgot what the topic was about :confused: amazing how often that happens here :cool:
now that I think about it, its not very different from what is going in California with the evolution debate :crazy:
but extremists bore me, whether they be for god, no god or just seem to love to argue :straightface:

You're at the same place as me. I believe in autonomy, too many people seem to want to dictate what everyone else should be doing. Just live your own lives and stop demanding everyone else follow your path.
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge'.”
~ Isaac Asimov

:thumb:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge'.”
~ Isaac Asimov

I think the ignorance is in not acknowledging that people have different beliefs and that the only way out of that is to force everyone to "believe" the same thing, and then you wind up with North Korea. Once I can force you to accept my truth, even if it is based on fact, I can force you to accept the truth that best suits my agenda. Dumbass can only respond with self-righteousness and memes. All views are not equal. Guess what? All people are not equal, either. But we are all supposed to be equal under the law. If you don't agree with that I can't support you.

Still nothing about the "floodgates having been opened." Maybe all those people that want to stop the building of mosques are correct? You can't be completely against people's right to their own beliefs without being a bigot and a fascist.
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
I think the ignorance is in not acknowledging that people have different beliefs and that the only way out of that is to force everyone to "believe" the same thing, and then you wind up with North Korea. Once I can force you to accept my truth, even if it is based on fact, I can force you to accept the truth that best suits my agenda. Dumbass can only respond with self-righteousness and memes. All views are not equal. Guess what? All people are not equal, either. But we are all supposed to be equal under the law. If you don't agree with that I can't support you.

Still nothing about the "floodgates having been opened." Maybe all those people that want to stop the building of mosques are correct? You can't be completely against people's right to their own beliefs without being a bigot and a fascist.

You are confusing opinions with beliefs. I can have the opinion that apples taste good. You can think they taste bad. There is no right or wrong. It is a matter of taste, aesthetics. When it comes to things such as the belief in a god, ghosts, how old the earth is, there is only one truth. It is not a matter of opinion. These are facts. There either is a god or there isn't. The earth is 4.54 billion years years old or it isn't. Ghosts exist or they don't. Evolution is a fact or it isn't. You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts.

Some ways of believing and doing, are in fact better than others. Everything is NOT equal.

The far liberal left's moral/cultural relativism is an ideology just as dangerous and dogmatic as fascism. According to relativists, stoning is OK if that is your way of dealing with adultery. That is what the relativist believes. Relativism is the very ideology that allows for fascism to exist and thrive in the middle east and elsewhere.

If you claim all beliefs should be considered and respected than stop knocking fascism. See the problem there?

Fascism is bad and relativism is bad. And I can make these claims because some things are just plain wrong. And I can say this precisely because I am NOT a relativist.

If you lived in Nazi Germany, you would be indoctrinated to accept nationalism. If you live in Sweden you are taught to believe in socialist values. If you live in the US and attend a liberal arts college, you are spoon-fed multiculturalism.
 
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realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
You're at the same place as me. I believe in autonomy, too many people seem to want to dictate what everyone else should be doing. Just live your own lives and stop demanding everyone else follow your path.

I should be allowed to smoke pot at the city park. Because that is what I want to do. Live and let live, right? Whatever floats my boat. Nobody should tell me how to live my life. Such a cliche. And NO ONE really believes it. They just think they do. No, they still want you to follow the rules and laws and moral codes that they follow.

Do you really believe all things should be permitted? If not, then you really don't believe in the live and let live ethos. So why claim you do? Because it is politically correct? Because you were spoon-fed this liberal left position and you don't even question it? You say it by rote?
 

Peterb

Well-Known Member
I should be allowed to smoke pot at the city park. Because that is what I want to do. Live and let live, right? Whatever floats my boat. Nobody should tell me how to live my life. Such a cliche. And NO ONE really believes it. They just think they do. No, they still want you to follow the rules and laws and moral codes that they follow.

Do you really believe all things should be permitted? If not, then you really don't believe in the live and let live ethos. So why claim you do? Because it is politically correct? Because you were spoon-fed this liberal left position and you don't even question it? You say it by rote?
Hey Jehne,
How you doing?
Interesting posts as usual. Can't see why TBT got his knickers in a twist. Should take a chill pill. Anyway, he lost me with his bit about black culture which has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
However, some of the things you have posted today do wrankle a little, which, ofcourse maybe down to the bluntness of this medium.

Ofcourse it would be a nonsense to permit everything but to permit things that are consensual and non harming, why not? Surely we all believe that?
Also, I get the impression that you see things a little too black and white.
Not everything can be put into 'good' or 'bad' boxes.
Good things can be pursued in a bad way.
Describing things as bad or evil is often not particulary useful.

Also, this moral relavatism you mention. I have never seen it.
It only appears to exist in the minds of those on the right who wish to attack those that take a measured analytical approach to issues.

Please note, I am in no way attacking you. This is a discussion.
Your Friend,
Peterb
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
You are confusing opinions with beliefs. I can have the opinion that apples taste good. You can think they taste bad. There is no right or wrong. It is a matter of taste, aesthetics. When it comes to things such as the belief in a god, ghosts, how old the earth is, there is only one truth. It is not a matter of opinion. These are facts. There either is a god or there isn't. The earth is 4.54 billion years years old or it isn't. Ghosts exist or they don't. Evolution is a fact or it isn't. You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts.

You start out talking about opinions vs beliefs. Then at the end you contrast opinions with facts.
The difference between an opinion and a belief is not nearly as great as the difference between a belief and a fact.

Are you saying people are not entitled to their own beliefs?
 

Playcat2000

New Member
Hey Jehne,
How you doing?
Interesting posts as usual. Can't see why TBT got his knickers in a twist. Should take a chill pill. Anyway, he lost me with his bit about black culture which has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
However, some of the things you have posted today do wrankle a little, which, ofcourse maybe down to the bluntness of this medium.

Ofcourse it would be a nonsense to permit everything but to permit things that are consensual and non harming, why not? Surely we all believe that?
Also, I get the impression that you see things a little too black and white.
Not everything can be put into 'good' or 'bad' boxes.
Good things can be pursued in a bad way.
Describing things as bad or evil is often not particulary useful.

Also, this moral relavatism you mention. I have never seen it.
It only appears to exist in the minds of those on the right who wish to attack those that take a measured analytical approach to issues.

Please note, I am in no way attacking you. This is a discussion.
Your Friend,
Peterb


I was kinda taken aback from TBT’s outburst as well but at the same time I thought it was funny because it came out of nowhere like a surprise volcanic eruption.
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
Hey Jehne,
How you doing?

Hi Peter. Doing pretty well. How are you?


Interesting posts as usual. Can't see why TBT got his knickers in a twist. Should take a chill pill.

I think I just really rub him the wrong way. Maybe I am his 'Saddo?' Have you ever come across anyone like that? Someone you just really clash with in all ways? I don't think he is a bad person for saying what he said. I get it, actually. I still say he has some great qualities and is very intelligent.

Anyway, he lost me with his bit about black culture which has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

I can't speak for him. But I am pretty certain it has nothing to do with skin color but rather about the components of that subculture he finds distasteful e.g. the music, slang, attitudes, clothing, values, etc. So it isn't really racist, imo.

However, some of the things you have posted today do wrankle a little, which, of course maybe down to the bluntness of this medium.

That is what I have actually realized in the last few days. I tend to be very blunt when I write. I don't use qualifiers, and rarely even use pronouns, haha. I write as if I am stating facts even when I realize I am only expressing opinions. This style of writing is off-putting to many--especially coming from a woman. Women are supposed to be understanding, nurturing, accommodating. The soft places to fall. That just isn't me--online. But I think you'd be surprised at what a softie I am IRL. I am very sweet and tender and give great hugs. Not to say that my online presence is a persona. It is just a harder version of Jehne. A more black and white version.

Ofcourse it would be a nonsense to permit everything but to permit things that are consensual and non harming, why not? Surely we all believe that?
Also, I get the impression that you see things a little too black and white.
Not everything can be put into 'good' or 'bad' boxes.
Good things can be pursued in a bad way.
Describing things as bad or evil is often not particulary useful.

I certainly think most things are acceptable if they do not effect others negatively and are done with the consent of the parties involved. Thus any sexual act is OK by me if there is consent. Drugs, pot, should be legal. Period. Does it affect society any more than alcohol consumption does? I'd argue far less. I am much more liberal and tolerant than I may come across as. I do believe people should be able to think and say whatever they wish. Does not mean I have to like it or agree with it. At the same time, it is my right to try to suppress their ideas or words which cause harm to myself. And it is also my right to try to try change their opinion(s) to that of my own, through debate, persuasion. Coercion rarely works.


Also, this moral relavatism you mention. I have never seen it.
It only appears to exist in the minds of those on the right who wish to attack those that take a measured analytical approach to issues.

Just one example. Making exceptions for religious/ritual slaughter because some people think stunning an animal first is against their sky god's wishes is moral relativism. Does ritual slaughter impact anyone negatively? Yes, the poor animals who suffer needlessly because some primitive beliefs are being appeased under the banner of relativism/multiculturalism.


Please note, I am in no way attacking you. This is a discussion.
Your Friend,
Peterb

I don't feel attacked at all. Your honesty is much appreciated.

Jehne x

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I was kinda taken aback from TBT’s outburst as well but at the same time I thought it was funny because it came out of nowhere like a surprise volcanic eruption.

He is a very passionate and intense person. He loves and he hates deeply. He obviously really HATES me. I am not angry with him at all.
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
I am so f***ing sick of you. I would rather BLOW Mozambiguous than read another one of your demented, unfounded, absurd, self-righteous proclamations of "fact."

You claim and are ALWAYS claiming to have assembled the puzzle, when in reality the puzzle box is up high on the shelf in the closet, out of your child's-hands reach, but you have found one or two of the jigsaw pieces on the floor which have fallen from the box and you wave them about in an ignorant victory dance as though they equate to the missing whole.

You are a fool. A fool. You fight blindly in the dark at an enemy belief set that is just as flawed and faith-based and absurd as your own. I shit on your presence here. You hide behind rhetoric and textbook definitions and smug overconfident loudmouths who masquerade as intellectuals.

I am about to do with you something I have never, ever done with ANYone here: I am going to put you on Ignore. I cannot abide the moronic bile you spew across this board one more day. I rue the day I ever engaged you in discourse. I have no idea what I was thinking. Ever hear that expression "blame the beer?"

Well baby, I blame the f***ing beer.

Admittedly, I'm endlessly amused by the try-twice-as-hard double helping of earnest nonsense (with an absolutist cherry on top) that posts like this inevitably elicit, but you're so damn on target here I may have to reconsider this particular source of entertainment.
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
Admittedly, I'm endlessly amused by the try-twice-as-hard double helping of earnest nonsense (with an absolutist cherry on top) that posts like this inevitably elicit, but you're so damn on target here I may have to reconsider this particular source of entertainment.

Let me translate this for the plebs. I hate you. I hate her. But I love that you stuck it to her. So I approve of this message even though I think everything else you write is pretentious and ludicrous.
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
You start out talking about opinions vs beliefs. Then at the end you contrast opinions with facts.
The difference between an opinion and a belief is not nearly as great as the difference between a belief and a fact.

Are you saying people are not entitled to their own beliefs?

Opinions cannot (even theoretically) be proven true or false. Beliefs can.

Belief that is a fact is a true belief.
Belief that is not a fact is a false belief.

Thus some beliefs are facts. Like, the earth has one moon. I believe that the earth has one moon. A true belief.

A child might say, I believe the earth has two moons. A false belief.

One belief is based on factual evidence. The other is not.

Opinions are not about facts or truth. They are relative. And can be debated but cannot be proven false or true.

I think Fellini was a better director than Scorsese.

Not a fact. An opinion. We can argue about it all day long. My opinion can be shown to lack merit. But can never be proven false.

The belief (not opinion) in a god is either true or false. There either is a god, or there isn't. We may not have the tools to prove it true or false--yet. But it is either a true belief or a false one never the less.

Evolution is a fact-based belief, not an opinion.

That museum was in error when it posted that disclaimer/warning--pandering to the faint at heart that can't handle the cold hard facts. Reality check on isle nine!
 
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Oh my god. it's Robby!

spontaneously luminescent
You're at the same place as me. I believe in autonomy, too many people seem to want to dictate what everyone else should be doing. Just live your own lives and stop demanding everyone else follow your path.
thanks Charlie, but my point is more about extremism :straightface:
one can develop a very different take on it, especially that of the anti-religious kind when living in a country where not so long ago people were executed based on their beliefs :eek:
and here you still see people spit in front of the now "free" Buddhist monks :(
so yeah, I am just against the rabid, anti people path which leads to the kind of governments, whether they be left leaning or right, and people that engage in this sort of thing :o
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Opinions cannot (even theoretically) be proven true or false. Beliefs can.

Belief that is a fact is a true belief.
Belief that is not a fact is a false belief.

Thus some beliefs are facts. Like, the earth has one moon. I believe that the earth has one moon. A true belief.

A child might say, I believe the earth has two moons. A false belief.

One belief is based on factual evidence. The other is not.

Opinions are not about facts or truth. They are relative. And can be debated but cannot be proven false or true.

I think Fellini was a better director than Scorsese.

Not a fact. An opinion. We can argue about it all day long. My opinion can be shown to lack merit. But can never be proven false.

The belief (not opinion) in a god is either true or false. There either is a god, or there isn't. We may not have the tools to prove it true or false--yet. But it is either a true belief or a false one never the less.

Evolution is a fact-based belief, not an option.

That museum was in error when it posted that disclaimer/warning--pandering to the faint at heart that can't handle the cold hard facts. Reality check on isle nine!

It's a simple question. The fact that you can't answer it with a simple yes or not says you are full of shit. That is my opinion, my belief and "my truth" (as Oprah would say.) I don't care who you think was a good director. At all.

Do you think people are entitled to have beliefs or not?
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
It's a simple question. The fact that you can't answer it with a simple yes or not says you are full of shit. That is my opinion, my belief and "my truth" (as Oprah would say.) I don't care who you think was a good director. At all.

Do you think people are entitled to have beliefs or not?

You lost me when you name-dropped Oprah. Laters.
 
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