Disasterpieces

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
I think, at a certain point, Morrissey felt like he needed to augment his persona with harder edged music. I never found the tough guy act particularly convincing and usually don't think it suits him musically. For me, the nadir was "I Will See You in Far-Off Places." I remember the dread in seeing that accordion come out, woof.

For me, his strengths shine in those lighter moments. Give me a setlist with "My Love Life" and "Driving Your Girlfriend Home" and stuff like that.
The thing about Moz that some fans do not realise is that mentally Moz is a tough guy. The fey thing is an act - it comes from his love of Oscar Wilde etc. but deep down he is a very strong individual. Just because one of his facets is poetic and sensitive, it should not be assumed that he is weak or frail (like many of his fans who feel a bond with him based on this inaccuracy).

He has always spoken his mind regardless of the consequences (which nowadays are severe due to the herd like mentality of social media). Despite his mass demonization programme and the stress it undoubtedly caused him personally, he came out with his most interesting work in years. That is not a weak or fey person but an incredibly tough person.
 

Verso

Well-Known Member
The thing about Moz that some fans do not realise is that mentally Moz is a tough guy. The fey thing is an act - it comes from his love of Oscar Wilde etc. but deep down he is a very strong individual. Just because one of his facets is poetic and sensitive, it should not be assumed that he is weak or frail (like many of his fans who feel a bond with him based on this inaccuracy).

He has always spoken his mind regardless of the consequences (which nowadays are severe due to the herd like mentality of social media). Despite his mass demonization programme and the stress it undoubtedly caused him personally, he came out with his most interesting work in years. That is not a weak or fey person but an incredibly tough person.
I couldn't disagree more. Morrissey has proven time and time again that he's a coward and a liar. He used to admit this weakness in song, that's what made him a compelling figure. Now he plays tough guy with a very unconvincing act. His music has suffered for this defensive about-face, this elimination of vulnerability. You don't need to title your album "I Am Not a Dog on a Chain" if that's how you actually feel. It should be self-evident. A tough person doesn't have to pretend to be sick to get out of undersold concerts, a tough person doesn't have to stage his own interviews with imaginary journalists, a tough guy doesn't have to ex-communicate band members because they asked for royalties on songs they've written, et cetera et cetera et cetera.

Just like you give yourself a pat on the back for being racist, as you think this makes you some sort of rebellious 'thought criminal,' you apply the same narcissistic delusion to modern Morrissey. I love the man, I certainly always will, but 'incredibly tough' is not an adjective I'd use to describe him.

Anyway, we're talking about the music here and not the man. The fact remains that when his band starts up with riffs that sound like System of a Down b-sides, I have to squirm out of the pit to get a beer.
 

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
I couldn't disagree more. Morrissey has proven time and time again that he's a coward and a liar. He used to admit this weakness in song, that's what made him a compelling figure. Now he plays tough guy with a very unconvincing act. His music has suffered for this defensive about-face, this elimination of vulnerability. You don't need to title your album "I Am Not a Dog on a Chain" if that's how you actually feel. It should be self-evident. A tough person doesn't have to pretend to be sick to get out of undersold concerts, a tough person doesn't have to stage his own interviews with imaginary journalists, a tough guy doesn't have to ex-communicate band members because they asked for royalties on songs they've written, et cetera et cetera et cetera.

Just like you give yourself a pat on the back for being racist, as you think this makes you some sort of rebellious 'thought criminal,' you apply the same narcissistic delusion to modern Morrissey. I love the man, I certainly always will, but 'incredibly tough' is not an adjective I'd use to describe him.

Anyway, we're talking about the music here and not the man. The fact remains that when his band starts up with riffs that sound like System of a Down b-sides, I have to squirm out of the pit to get a beer.
Unsurprisingly I disagree with almost all of this.

But you have the right to air whatever opinion you choose - whereas you would like to silence mine (even appealing to David to censor this site) as my opinions must feel so threatening to you.

Actions like that only exemplify to me that I must indeed be a thought criminal of the highest order.

I, on the other hand, do not wish to censor anybody's speech.
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
I’ve never cared for Mute Witness. To me, it’s the weakest track on Kill Uncle. Silly lyrics, equally silly musical arrangement, and the song is way too long. The live versions were better, though.
 

Oh my

Enough! or Too much
David Bowie's cover of "I know it's gonna happen"... (but the original is great)...

And that song that he recorded with the singer of Green Day.... end of my list, ALL the other ones are perfect.

Those who don't like some other songs have the right to be wrong.
 

Mozmar

Well-Known Member
I’ve never cared for Mute Witness. To me, it’s the weakest track on Kill Uncle. Silly lyrics, equally silly musical arrangement, and the song is way too long. The live versions were better, though.
I wouldn't class MW as a 'disasterpiece' though...far from it really.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

The Courage to Get on People's Tits
I’ve never cared for Mute Witness. To me, it’s the weakest track on Kill Uncle. Silly lyrics, equally silly musical arrangement, and the song is way too long. The live versions were better, though.
I never liked Bengali In Platforms because the music gets on my nerves and I find the "no, no, no" annoying, too. But I'd never list it here because I know that it is in fact a good song, I just don't like it.

Just like The Boy With The Thorn In His Side. I can't listen to it anymore, but I'd never say it's a bad song.
 
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Mozmar

Well-Known Member
I never liked Bengali In Platforms because the music goes on my nerves and I find the "no, no, no" annoying, too. But I'd never list it here because I know that it is in fact a good song, I just don't like it.

Just like The Boy With The Thorn In His Side. I can't listen to it anymore, but I'd never say it's a bad song.
There are some tracks which I've over-played, which then sound jaded or even cheesy, so I just park them & don't listen for a while. Then when I pick them up again later they sound fresh & I love them again. EDILS & Suedehead are 2 examples. Moz takes us in many & varied directions, musically & lyrically that we'll never get tired of listening to him.
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
I wouldn't class MW as a 'disasterpiece' though...far from it really.
Me neither, really. But for me, it’s not a very good song. To me, there weren’t any real ‘disasterpieces’ until 2014.
 
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Daniel Boratto

Guest
Sorry but I can't agree with Treat Me Like a Human Being - I would have that closer to 'masterpiece' (hairs standing up on my arms) than anything else. Beautiful song.
I found it unacceptable that they replaced The Ordinary Boys with her in that Viva Hate Remastered Special Edition ... hence the ill will with this track
 

This Charming Bowie

Welcome to this knockabout world
Most 'bad' Moz songs, in my opinion, aren't necessarily awful: usually they're just boring or forgettable. However, there are a handful that cross the line between 'bad' and 'disasterpiece':

Roy's Keen
Kick The Bride Down The Aisle
Journalists Who Lie
The Slum Mums
The Harsh Truth of the Camera Eye
How Can Anyone Possibly Know How I Feel?
This Song Doesn't End When It's Over
Get off the Stage
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
Yes I've noticed you're not particularly keen on that period...
He's better than that, as we'd seen prior, and we're seeing it now with Dog, which I really, really like.
 

Mozmar

Well-Known Member
He's better than that, as we'd seen prior, and we're seeing it now with Dog, which I really, really like.
It's horses for courses though Gregor...I like both LIHS & WPINOYB.

However, on LIHS (I don't have the dlx version) I'm not keen on these tracks:
I Bury the Living
All the Young People Must Fall in Love

On WP I'm not keen on these tracks (below), but to me, the rest is superb, more so the last 5 tracks which are stellar:
Neal Cassady Drops Dead
Mountjoy

But, in the case of both albums, if I'm playing the album all the way through, these non-favourites sort of just 'go' and 'fit' & it's strange that I then sort of like them. If I select just a single track in isolation, I Bury The Living, for example, I'm really not keen, but in the context of the album, it goes well. Maybe this is part of the skill which Chiccarelli brings.
 
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Mozmar

Well-Known Member
Most 'bad' Moz songs, in my opinion, aren't necessarily awful: usually they're just boring or forgettable. However, there are a handful that cross the line between 'bad' and 'disasterpiece':

Roy's Keen
Kick The Bride Down The Aisle
Journalists Who Lie
The Slum Mums
The Harsh Truth of the Camera Eye
How Can Anyone Possibly Know How I Feel?
This Song Doesn't End When It's Over
Get off the Stage
I can agree (or should I say 'could') with This Song Doesn't End When It's Over...sort of...but after 2 days of playing it at random times, unbelievably it's actually slowly growing on me! It's actually new to me as I don't possess the LIHS Dlx, so it's not one that I would have come across while playing my version of the album. Bear with it and get replaying your 'dislikes' a few times and see if you have a change of heart. My original list has reduced dramatically from what it was.

This song doesn't end just because it's over
No, it goes on in your head, in your hospital bed
You'll hear me instead of drip, drip, drip
And oh, it goes on in your mind
I sing, it stings you
And now, my work is done
 
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This Charming Bowie

Welcome to this knockabout world
I can agree (or should I say 'could') with This Song Doesn't End When It's Over...sort of...but after 2 days of playing it at random times, unbelievably it's actually slowly growing on me! It's actually new to me as I don't possess the LIHS Dlx, so it's not one that I would have come across while playing my version of the album. Bear with it and get replaying your 'dislikes' a few times and see if you have a change of heart. My original list has reduced dramatically from what it was.
I will do that! I admit, I haven’t really listened to This Song in a while, but I do remember it being a bit of a dirge. Maybe giving it another go will make me take more of a shine to it. As for the others, Roy and Kick probably won’t change, but the others could shift around after another few goes.
 

Mozmar

Well-Known Member
I will do that! I admit, I haven’t really listened to This Song in a while, but I do remember it being a bit of a dirge. Maybe giving it another go will make me take more of a shine to it. As for the others, Roy and Kick probably won’t change, but the others could shift around after another few goes.
Oh it's a terrible dirge...I've not made sense of its meaning, but I'm sticking with it for a short while.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
Just like The Boy With The Thorn In His Side. I can't listen to it anymore, but I'd never say it's a bad song.

Wow, the music of BWTT irritates you? That song is solid gold, I could play it all day.
 
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Anony

Guest
Wow, the music of BWTT irritates you? That song is solid gold, I could play it all day.
Yep me too. In fact I've always said it's my favourite song of all time.
The last minute or so of yodeling is just heavenly, and the rest ain't bad either!
 
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