Discussion about journalism and racism (based around Siouxsie & Morrissey)

This is Frank Owen's lead up to Morrissey's reggae comment... It doesn't include exactly what question he asks but it's clearly loaded & Morrissey is trying to answer it... Pete Paphides can go f*ck himself.

View attachment 68147

Moz said:

View attachment 68148

& ended with:

View attachment 68149


Always worth mentioning that sweet Angel Johnny Marr (calmly) threatened to "kick the shit out of" Owen for that article.

What did the band make of the direct accusations of racism as published, irony buffs, in Britain's most sexist music paper?

"I'll answer that", he begins grimly, "provided you note the fact that I'm not ranting, that I'm thinking carefully before I speak.

"Right then: next time we come across that creep, he's plastered. We're not in the habit of issuing personal threats, but that was such a vicious slur-job that we'll kick the shit out of him. Violence is disgusting but racism's worse and we don't deal with it."

(NMW, February 1987)

In Autobiography Morrissey describes the incident as well (although his anger seems to be more directed at the homophobic aspects of the article)

"A Melody Maker interview is written by a failed Manchester musician under an assumed name, and becomes one of the first major hatchet jobs, wherein the writer’s own questions are impressively printed as loquacious eloquence, and my own replies are printed as stunted fumblings."

He mentions that legal measures were discussed

"Because of the public-toilet disparagement, there are of course legal grounds to take action against Melody Maker, but Rough Trade are now making useful inroads with the press because of the Smiths, and they don’t want to cause a fuss, and I am still too green around the gills to ignore their reluctance. I could attempt to tackle Melody Maker myself, but without the label behind me, I am at sea."

And hints at a possible personal agenda on Owen's part (obligatory grain of salt)

"The meeting for the Melody Maker piece had taken place in Cleveland, Ohio, and after the face-to-face interview had concluded I had retired to the joy of pure cotton sheets. In the middle of the night the telephone rings and it is the journalist. I say nothing, confused, and I put the phone down and return to sleep. Whatever was it that the writer thought he might learn or access by dialing my number? Didn’t the peevish printed article boom of enraged loss? Isn’t it the case that wildly vitriolic reviews of hate usually have their waterlogged roots in personal rebuff – now and forever, Amen."



Edit:

Probably makes sense to link to the interview in question

 
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Does anyone have a source for Green Gartside's accusation that Panic was racist?
I never found the original source. Probably some 1986 music paper interview. All I know is that he apparently called indie music racist. Bit cringe looking at this white bloke complaining how Brits aren't funky enough (and who got two white Americans into his band to make it more funky 😆)

 
Always worth mentioning that sweet Angel Johnny Marr (calmly) threatened to "kick the shit out of" Owen for that article.

What did the band make of the direct accusations of racism as published, irony buffs, in Britain's most sexist music paper?

"I'll answer that", he begins grimly, "provided you note the fact that I'm not ranting, that I'm thinking carefully before I speak.

"Right then: next time we come across that creep, he's plastered. We're not in the habit of issuing personal threats, but that was such a vicious slur-job that we'll kick the shit out of him. Violence is disgusting but racism's worse and we don't deal with it."

(NMW, February 1987)

In Autobiography Morrissey describes the incident as well (although his anger seems to be more directed at the homophobic aspects of the article)

"A Melody Maker interview is written by a failed Manchester musician under an assumed name, and becomes one of the first major hatchet jobs, wherein the writer’s own questions are impressively printed as loquacious eloquence, and my own replies are printed as stunted fumblings."

He mentions that legal measures were discussed

"Because of the public-toilet disparagement, there are of course legal grounds to take action against Melody Maker, but Rough Trade are now making useful inroads with the press because of the Smiths, and they don’t want to cause a fuss, and I am still too green around the gills to ignore their reluctance. I could attempt to tackle Melody Maker myself, but without the label behind me, I am at sea."

And hints at a possible personal agenda on Owen's part (obligatory grain of salt)

"The meeting for the Melody Maker piece had taken place in Cleveland, Ohio, and after the face-to-face interview had concluded I had retired to the joy of pure cotton sheets. In the middle of the night the telephone rings and it is the journalist. I say nothing, confused, and I put the phone down and return to sleep. Whatever was it that the writer thought he might learn or access by dialing my number? Didn’t the peevish printed article boom of enraged loss? Isn’t it the case that wildly vitriolic reviews of hate usually have their waterlogged roots in personal rebuff – now and forever, Amen."

I couldn't sleep last night I was so annoyed by that tweet thread.

Most of the article was the hack trying to goad Morrissey into saying he was gay.

& I'm not surprised Marr was so angry - hanging a smiley naff radio 1 dj is so unlikely that it's funny, hanging a black dj is not. And the journalist seems entirely unaware of how serious an allegation that is. Which Pete doesn't seem to have a problem with despite gutting the interview to make Morrissey look bad AND still only getting witterings about music that people have to pretend are hateful as if it's inherently racist not to like 80s Diana Ross (I love 80s Diana Ross).

Those journalists are the repugnant ones.

:swear
 
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I couldn't sleep last night I was so annoyed by that tweet thread.

Most of the article was the hack trying to goad Morrissey into saying he was gay.

& I'm not surprised Marr was so angry - hanging a smiley naff radio 1 dj is so unlikely that it's funny, hanging a black dj is not. And the journalist seems entirely unaware of how serious an allegation that is. Which Pete doesn't seem to have a problem with despite gutting the interview to make Morrissey look bad AND still only getting witterings about music that people have to pretend are hateful as if it's inherently racist not to like 80s Diana Ross (I love 80s Diana Ross).

Those journalists are repugnant ones.

:swear
Idk I just chuckle every time someone mentions that interview because I just think of it as "public toilet disparagement" and Johnny Marr in a Robin costume :lbf:

"But Johnny finds the right words: ‘We’re gonna get him,’ and he bangs a fist into an open palm, like Burt Ward as Robin the Boy Wonder."

But yes, horrible, virtue-signalling people and I want to know why Owen thought it was a good idea to call Moz after 8:30 pm.
 
Idk I just chuckle every time someone mentions that interview because I just think of it as "public toilet disparagement" and Johnny Marr in a Robin costume :lbf:

"But Johnny finds the right words: ‘We’re gonna get him,’ and he bangs a fist into an open palm, like Burt Ward as Robin the Boy Wonder."

But yes, horrible, virtue-signalling people and I want to know why Owen thought it was a good idea to call Moz after 8:30 pm.

Hoping Morrissey's boyfriend would answer or be heard in the background probably.

Morrissey gets so upset that he thinks it's an acutely personal malice - when really a huge amount of journalists are naturally muckraking, bigoted, disingenuous, arrogant bloviators & he's just copy.
 
I never found the original source. Probably some 1986 music paper interview. All I know is that he apparently called indie music racist. Bit cringe looking at this white bloke complaining how Brits aren't funky enough (and who got two white Americans into his band to make it more funky 😆)



Fletcher quotes (with zero reference) the full accusation as:
“the Smiths and their ilk were racist.”
Marr's 'white middle class guitar thrashing racists' recollection attributed to Gartside is a bit of a reach from Fletcher's assertion - so perhaps there's a couple of quotes lost to time out there. I've certainly never come across any in print.
Regards,
FWD.
 
Just look at this c**t move.... his eyes failed to see Simon Reynolds splitting music into Indie & Black opposing camps, failed to see Frank Owen's homophobia, failed to see Morrissey saying that black people had a history of being oppressed... but...

20210202_020852.jpg
 
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Hoping Morrissey's boyfriend would answer or be heard in the background probably.

Morrissey gets so upset that he thinks it's an acutely personal malice - when really a huge amount of journalists are naturally muckraking, bigoted, disingenuous, arrogant bloviators & he's just copy.
Yeah, he's a bit paranoid.
I mean, what is this even supposed to mean?

"a failed Manchester musician under an assumed name"
 
Yeah, he's a bit paranoid.
I mean, what is this even supposed to mean?

"a failed Manchester musician under an assumed name"

Maybe Morrissey knew him back in Manchester & he used a different name????

I was looking him up - he was a huge dance/hip-hop fan fighting with Melody Maker's editors to get stories on it, so he had no interest in the Smiths & was using them to further his cause.

I like all sorts of music, I don't know why scenes are so tribal.

But - I found this interview where his Melody Maker editors are quoted as saying “What do you want to write about all these grungy Negroes in there?”

SO clearly music hacks in general were not the racially sensitive souls aghast at the evil of Morrissey that we have been led to believe.

& he's old now so he hates everything... "I was blown away by that stuff. But it’s how many decades later? I don’t really hear that much progression anymore.... I’m somebody who was actually a big proponent of that stuff, and I kind of despise it now. There’s just too much of it. It’s a lot to do with where I live. You cannot go out in this town – to buy a pair of trousers, to have a meal, to sit at a pool – without hearing BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM. It’s everywhere. It’s become the world capital of bad techno music".

They're mean to Morrissey just because he was so despondent he got old in his 20s!

 
This is Frank Owen's lead up to Morrissey's reggae comment... It doesn't include exactly what question he asks but it's clearly loaded & Morrissey is trying to answer it... Pete Paphides can go f*ck himself.



Moz said:

View attachment 68148

& ended with:

View attachment 68149
I am glad you digged those because his remarks on reggae and contemporary chart music were taken out of the broader context. But the way in which he expresses himself, often hitting the extreme ends of the spectrum, doesn't help him. In contrast, he provides his enemies with great ammunition. And yet, he perseveres in his habits.
 
Fletcher gives a bit more inside into Owen's background and apparently even spoke to him about the interview in question (he's thanked in the Acknowledgements).
Relevant section quoted here in full:

It was fellow IPC publication Melody Maker—long considered the most traditional of the music weeklies—that made frequent cover stars of the Smiths, and it was for yet another such feature that journalist Frank Owen was flown to Cleveland, early in the American tour, to interview Morrissey “on the road.” Owen was, like Morrissey, a Mancunian of working-class Irish stock. He had come of age alongside Morrissey in the city’s thriving post-punk environment, and had played in the band Manicured Noise, of which Morrissey had been a fan. A devotee from childhood of disco, reggae, and soul, and already a keen proponent of house music, Owen sought in his feature to establish the connection between punk rock, gay clubs, discos, black music, the Smiths, the DJ, and “Panic.” Given the hastily written nature of the British music weeklies, he failed to pull it off successfully. Verbally, however, he gave it his best shot. After an initial back-and-forth about Morrissey’s “no sex” agenda (Owen dared suggest in writing that in years to come, Morrissey would be into “fisting and water sports”), he raised an accusation recently made by Scritti Politti’s Green Gartside, that “the Smiths and their ilk were racist.”
Morrissey not only took the bait, he swallowed it hook, line, and potential career sinker. “Reggae … is to me the most racist music in the entire world,” he was quoted as responding in part. This was no more true of a genre that admittedly had its share of black nationalist Rastafarians than it was true of rock music, which likewise had its share of white supremacists performing under the Oi! banner in Britain and infiltrating the hardcore scene in America. Not content to leave it there, Morrissey went on to express how much he detested the “black modern music” of Motown descendants Stevie Wonder, Janet Jackson, and Diana Ross, stating, per the lyrics to “Panic,” that “in essence this music doesn’t say anything whatsoever.”
Owen claimed to understand this thinking. “When NME and Melody Maker started putting black acts on the cover,” he recalled, “there was a huge backlash to it. I used to get letters all the time. And it wasn’t explicitly ‘We don’t want blacks on the cover,’ it was more like ‘This is our scene and what do blacks have to do with it?’ ” And so, in his Melody Maker feature, as a response to Morrissey’s own response, Owen tried to answer that question: “What it says can’t necessarily be verbalised easily,” he wrote. “It doesn’t seek to change the world like rock music by speaking grand truths about politics, sex and the human condition. It works at a much more subtle level—at the level of the body and the shared abandon of the dancefloor. It won’t change the world, but it’s been said it may well change the way you walk through the world.” Within a year or two, as acid house exploded (the kindling lit on the Haçienda dance floor) and the rave movement emerged in its wake, a large section of British youth would come to share Owen’s sentiment, the Smiths’ Johnny Marr and New Order’s Bernard Sumner among them. In the summer of 1986, though, Morrissey was still the voice of his generation, which was perhaps why he then dared issue the most ludicrous comment yet of a continually outspoken career: “Obviously to get on Top of the Pops these days, one has to be, by law, black,” which he followed up with an equally ridiculous claim of personal persecution. “The last LP ended up at number two and we were still told by radio that nobody wanted to listen to The Smiths in the daytime. Is that not a conspiracy?” As a simple point of fact, the Smiths were on Top of the Pops, in absentia, the very week before Morrissey and Owen conducted this interview. And while it was true that seek to change the world like rock music by speaking grand truths about politics, sex and the human condition. It works at a much more subtle level—at the level of the body and the shared abandon of the dancefloor. It won’t change the world, but it’s been said it may well change the way you walk through the world.” Within a year or two, as acid house exploded (the kindling lit on the Haçienda dance floor) and the rave movement emerged in its wake, a large section of British youth would come to share Owen’s sentiment, the Smiths’ Johnny Marr and New Order’s Bernard Sumner among them. In the summer of 1986, though, Morrissey was still the voice of his generation, which was perhaps why he then dared issue the most ludicrous comment yet of a continually outspoken career: “Obviously to get on Top of the Pops these days, one has to be, by law, black,” which he followed up with an equally ridiculous claim of personal persecution. “The last LP ended up at number two and we were still told by radio that nobody wanted to listen to The Smiths in the daytime. Is that not a conspiracy?” As a simple point of fact, the Smiths were on Top of the Pops, in absentia, the very week before Morrissey and Owen conducted this interview. And while it was true that the Smiths were treated cautiously as a pop act with regard to daytime airplay on Radio 1, they received all due attention and respect as a rock band across the BBC’s many channels, with televised concerts, in-studio performances, on-air interviews, radio sessions, and unedited Derek Jarman premieres.
Even the singer’s attempt to restore proceedings mid-interview sounded suspect. “My favourite record of all time is ‘Third Finger, Left Hand’ by Martha and the Vandellas,” he said, citing a (black) Motown single from 1966, “which can lift me from the most doom-laden depression.” And yet this was as stereotypically romantic, conventionally sexist, and thereby nonfeminist a song as had ever been written. It would have said nothing about Morrissey’s life when it came out, and said even less about his life and that of his fans twenty years later. He was in essence employing a double standard, based on what Owen correctly referred to as a “nostalgia … that afflicts the whole indie scene.” A subsequent debate about the use of technology in music, especially the rhythm of rap, revealed what could only be described as Morrissey’s Luddite attitude: “Hi-tech can’t be liberating. It’ll kill us all. You’ll be strangulated by the cords of your compact disc.”
As it turned out, Owen wasn’t particularly put out by Morrissey’s comments in defense of “Panic.” “I never thought Morrissey was a racist,” he said. “I always thought it was just a big put-on, that it was just a way to wind people up, the same way that punks wore swastikas.” [(edit: ha!)] Morrissey’s subsequent, considerable anger over the published interview, Owen felt, was inspired by the section that followed, in which the journalist tried to engage the singer in a walk down Manchester’s gay-punk-disco memory lane. “Morrissey is the biggest closet gay queen on the planet,” said Owen, “and he felt that I was trying to ‘out’ him by bringing this up. But that wasn’t the point. The point was that if you were a punk rocker in Manchester, you couldn’t go to straight clubs ’cause you’d get the shit kicked out of you. So there was a very close relationship between the gay scene and the punk scene. Like the Ranch … it was essentially an old gay club, like one of those cowboy gay clubs. That’s why it was called the Ranch—it had saddles for seats.”
On this issue, Morrissey did not take the bait. “The gay scene in Manchester,” he said, “was a little bit heavy for me. I was a delicate bloom.” If he wanted to play coy, that was his prerogative, although with Thatcherite policies coming down increasingly hard on homosexuality, many other artists had decided to “come out” in response. As Len Brown wrote, “It was a time when everyone—artists and journalists—seemed to be asking the question (politically and sexually) ‘Whose Side Are You On?’ To which Morrissey insisted on being individual … a card-carrying member of nothing but his own cult of personality.” Worse than that, in this Melody Maker feature, he appeared to be projecting some prejudices of his own. When the interview was published, it caused, understandably, a more heated and visceral reaction than any previous Smiths feature. Some Melody Maker readers vowed to boycott the band’s music; over at NME, Morrissey’s comments appeared to confirm the “soul boy” brigade’s worst suspicions. There were, nonetheless, those who believed that Morrissey had been quoted out of context; their numbers included the singer himself. “He called up Melody Maker, said that I had invented those quotes, and they were going to sue us for libel,” said Owen. “So I said, ‘Fine, here’s the tapes.’ We gave them to Melody Maker’s lawyers—and of course he never sued.



Did he... did Owen call Morrissey, who from the very beginning has said that he was attracted to men and women, a closet queen and then said it wasn't on his agenda to out him? :lbf:
I love it when (straight) people try to enforce their understanding of how one should display one's own sexuality upon other people.

Edit:

His name when he was in Manicured Noise was Gavin Owen, which explains the remark in Autobiography. Looks like they did indeed have some history.
In one of the essays in the collection "Why pamper life's complexities?" Morrissey is quoted with

"I find these pieces that are written are usually written by people that I know, who I’ve known for a very long time … Frank Owen (the writer) is really Gavin Owen, who was the lead singer in the Manchester band Manicured Noise, they made some good singles … how can I hate black music? 55% of all my records are by black artists. Everything I said justifying the things he left in was taken out … All those gay clubs he mentioned, and there was a reference to Whitworth Street toilets – that was his past, not mine. We’re suing the Melody Maker, and they tell us they can’t find the tapes."

(Quoted from a Piccadilly Radio interview, October 31, 1986)
 
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I am glad you digged those because his remarks on reggae and contemporary chart music were taken out of the broader context. But the way in which he expresses himself, often hitting the extreme ends of the spectrum, doesn't help him. In contrast, he provides his enemies with great ammunition. And yet, he perseveres in his habits.

I don't think he can help it - he's naturally hyperbolic.

The vast majority of his interviews go by without incident & then occasionally a writer will misunderstand, dislike or misrepresent him, there's a huge storm, he gets angry, hides for a while, gets forgiven for the thing he didn't do & it starts again.

It probably feels quite random to him.
 
Fletcher gives a bit more inside into Moore's background and apparently even spoke to him about the interview in question (he's thanked in the Acknowledgements).
Relevant section quoted here in full:

It was fellow IPC publication Melody Maker—long considered the most traditional of the music weeklies—that made frequent cover stars of the Smiths, and it was for yet another such feature that journalist Frank Owen was flown to Cleveland, early in the American tour, to interview Morrissey “on the road.” Owen was, like Morrissey, a Mancunian of working-class Irish stock. He had come of age alongside Morrissey in the city’s thriving post-punk environment, and had played in the band Manicured Noise, of which Morrissey had been a fan. A devotee from childhood of disco, reggae, and soul, and already a keen proponent of house music, Owen sought in his feature to establish the connection between punk rock, gay clubs, discos, black music, the Smiths, the DJ, and “Panic.” Given the hastily written nature of the British music weeklies, he failed to pull it off successfully. Verbally, however, he gave it his best shot. After an initial back-and-forth about Morrissey’s “no sex” agenda (Owen dared suggest in writing that in years to come, Morrissey would be into “fisting and water sports”), he raised an accusation recently made by Scritti Politti’s Green Gartside, that “the Smiths and their ilk were racist.”
Morrissey not only took the bait, he swallowed it hook, line, and potential career sinker. “Reggae … is to me the most racist music in the entire world,” he was quoted as responding in part. This was no more true of a genre that admittedly had its share of black nationalist Rastafarians than it was true of rock music, which likewise had its share of white supremacists performing under the Oi! banner in Britain and infiltrating the hardcore scene in America. Not content to leave it there, Morrissey went on to express how much he detested the “black modern music” of Motown descendants Stevie Wonder, Janet Jackson, and Diana Ross, stating, per the lyrics to “Panic,” that “in essence this music doesn’t say anything whatsoever.”
Owen claimed to understand this thinking. “When NME and Melody Maker started putting black acts on the cover,” he recalled, “there was a huge backlash to it. I used to get letters all the time. And it wasn’t explicitly ‘We don’t want blacks on the cover,’ it was more like ‘This is our scene and what do blacks have to do with it?’ ” And so, in his Melody Maker feature, as a response to Morrissey’s own response, Owen tried to answer that question: “What it says can’t necessarily be verbalised easily,” he wrote. “It doesn’t seek to change the world like rock music by speaking grand truths about politics, sex and the human condition. It works at a much more subtle level—at the level of the body and the shared abandon of the dancefloor. It won’t change the world, but it’s been said it may well change the way you walk through the world.” Within a year or two, as acid house exploded (the kindling lit on the Haçienda dance floor) and the rave movement emerged in its wake, a large section of British youth would come to share Owen’s sentiment, the Smiths’ Johnny Marr and New Order’s Bernard Sumner among them. In the summer of 1986, though, Morrissey was still the voice of his generation, which was perhaps why he then dared issue the most ludicrous comment yet of a continually outspoken career: “Obviously to get on Top of the Pops these days, one has to be, by law, black,” which he followed up with an equally ridiculous claim of personal persecution. “The last LP ended up at number two and we were still told by radio that nobody wanted to listen to The Smiths in the daytime. Is that not a conspiracy?” As a simple point of fact, the Smiths were on Top of the Pops, in absentia, the very week before Morrissey and Owen conducted this interview. And while it was true that seek to change the world like rock music by speaking grand truths about politics, sex and the human condition. It works at a much more subtle level—at the level of the body and the shared abandon of the dancefloor. It won’t change the world, but it’s been said it may well change the way you walk through the world.” Within a year or two, as acid house exploded (the kindling lit on the Haçienda dance floor) and the rave movement emerged in its wake, a large section of British youth would come to share Owen’s sentiment, the Smiths’ Johnny Marr and New Order’s Bernard Sumner among them. In the summer of 1986, though, Morrissey was still the voice of his generation, which was perhaps why he then dared issue the most ludicrous comment yet of a continually outspoken career: “Obviously to get on Top of the Pops these days, one has to be, by law, black,” which he followed up with an equally ridiculous claim of personal persecution. “The last LP ended up at number two and we were still told by radio that nobody wanted to listen to The Smiths in the daytime. Is that not a conspiracy?” As a simple point of fact, the Smiths were on Top of the Pops, in absentia, the very week before Morrissey and Owen conducted this interview. And while it was true that the Smiths were treated cautiously as a pop act with regard to daytime airplay on Radio 1, they received all due attention and respect as a rock band across the BBC’s many channels, with televised concerts, in-studio performances, on-air interviews, radio sessions, and unedited Derek Jarman premieres.
Even the singer’s attempt to restore proceedings mid-interview sounded suspect. “My favourite record of all time is ‘Third Finger, Left Hand’ by Martha and the Vandellas,” he said, citing a (black) Motown single from 1966, “which can lift me from the most doom-laden depression.” And yet this was as stereotypically romantic, conventionally sexist, and thereby nonfeminist a song as had ever been written. It would have said nothing about Morrissey’s life when it came out, and said even less about his life and that of his fans twenty years later. He was in essence employing a double standard, based on what Owen correctly referred to as a “nostalgia … that afflicts the whole indie scene.” A subsequent debate about the use of technology in music, especially the rhythm of rap, revealed what could only be described as Morrissey’s Luddite attitude: “Hi-tech can’t be liberating. It’ll kill us all. You’ll be strangulated by the cords of your compact disc.”
As it turned out, Owen wasn’t particularly put out by Morrissey’s comments in defense of “Panic.” “I never thought Morrissey was a racist,” he said. “I always thought it was just a big put-on, that it was just a way to wind people up, the same way that punks wore swastikas.” [(edit: ha!)] Morrissey’s subsequent, considerable anger over the published interview, Owen felt, was inspired by the section that followed, in which the journalist tried to engage the singer in a walk down Manchester’s gay-punk-disco memory lane. “Morrissey is the biggest closet gay queen on the planet,” said Owen, “and he felt that I was trying to ‘out’ him by bringing this up. But that wasn’t the point. The point was that if you were a punk rocker in Manchester, you couldn’t go to straight clubs ’cause you’d get the shit kicked out of you. So there was a very close relationship between the gay scene and the punk scene. Like the Ranch … it was essentially an old gay club, like one of those cowboy gay clubs. That’s why it was called the Ranch—it had saddles for seats.”
On this issue, Morrissey did not take the bait. “The gay scene in Manchester,” he said, “was a little bit heavy for me. I was a delicate bloom.” If he wanted to play coy, that was his prerogative, although with Thatcherite policies coming down increasingly hard on homosexuality, many other artists had decided to “come out” in response. As Len Brown wrote, “It was a time when everyone—artists and journalists—seemed to be asking the question (politically and sexually) ‘Whose Side Are You On?’ To which Morrissey insisted on being individual … a card-carrying member of nothing but his own cult of personality.” Worse than that, in this Melody Maker feature, he appeared to be projecting some prejudices of his own. When the interview was published, it caused, understandably, a more heated and visceral reaction than any previous Smiths feature. Some Melody Maker readers vowed to boycott the band’s music; over at NME, Morrissey’s comments appeared to confirm the “soul boy” brigade’s worst suspicions. There were, nonetheless, those who believed that Morrissey had been quoted out of context; their numbers included the singer himself. “He called up Melody Maker, said that I had invented those quotes, and they were going to sue us for libel,” said Owen. “So I said, ‘Fine, here’s the tapes.’ We gave them to Melody Maker’s lawyers—and of course he never sued.



Did he... did Owen call Morrissey, who from the very beginning has said that he was attracted to men and women, a closet queen and then said it wasn't on his agenda to out him? :lbf:
I love it when (straight) people try to enforce their understanding of how one should display one's own sexuality upon other people.

Can music journalists not read?

Something being the most racist wouldn't mean it had to have a lot of racism, just more than other genres - also he wasn't that fussed about it. He was just defending Indie.

The black by law comment was a joke - what he was saying is that producers pick the acts they give airtime to & they will favour less controversial stuff.

What's suspect about him liking an old song - did anyone really like their rivals back then???

I don't think Moz understands that it's the way journalists frame & interpret his words that make them unrecognizable to him. They're usually not so stupid that they'll make it up entirely. And it's harder to sue for a bad edit or spin.

Yeah - the nerve is astounding. Calling him a closet Queen & trying to shame him while scrutinizing his replies to leading questions for racism.

Why is this bollocks a thing?!!!!!!

I'm still furious. :swear

20210202_044614.jpg
 
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Can music journalists not read?

Something being the most racist wouldn't mean it had to have a lot of racism, just more than other genres - also he wasn't that fussed about it. He was just defending Indie.

The black by law comment was a joke - what he was saying is that producers pick the acts they give airtime to & they will favour less controversial stuff.

What's suspect about him liking an old song - did anyone really like their rivals back then???

I don't think Moz understands that it's the way journalists frame & interpret his words that make them unrecognizable to him. They're usually not so stupid that they'll make it up entirely. And it's harder to sue for a bad edit or spin.

Yeah - the nerve of those 2 straight men is astounding. Calling him a closet Queen & trying to shame him while scrutinizing his replies to leading questions for racism.

Why is this bollocks a thing?!!!!!!

I'm still furious. :swear

View attachment 68199
Edited my comment while you were quoting.

Also, I'm possibly not done yet, because this particular interview has been bugging me for a while since I found the way Morrissey wrote about it in Autobiography very strange.

@Famous when dead is it possible to have this sub-discussion moved to its own thread?
 
Yes, but I'm doing loads of things at once currently - can you list the post numbers relating to the non A-Z discussion and suggest a new title - will do thereafter.
Regards,
FWD.
#39-43; #46-52; #55-56; #58-59; #61-end
... would be my suggestion if there are no objections.

Title suggestion: Discussion on journalism and racism (moved from Morrissey A-Z: "Black-Eyed Susan") - feel free to change that to something less dull 😄

Thank you!
 
Edited my comment while you were quoting.

Also, I'm possibly not done yet, because this particular interview has been bugging me for a while since I found the way Morrissey wrote about it in Autobiography very strange.

@Famous when dead is it possible to have this sub-discussion moved to its own thread?

I might have to withdraw the 2 straight men snark. 🧐

Maybe Owen was doing a booty call - Moz wasn't interested & thinks the article was revenge?
 
I might have to withdraw the 2 straight men snark. 🧐

Maybe Owen was doing a booty call - Moz wasn't interested & thinks the article was revenge?
Well, that was my first thought when I read the part in Autobiography, although there's not much to go by.

Generally not a fan of assuming people's orientation, but the way Morrissey tried to turn the tables in that Piccadilly Radio quote was a bit questionable either way.

Will listen to the whole interview tomorrow, but apparently the interviewer called Morrissey's recollection of him and James Maker being chased and almost beaten up by gay bashers a lie, solely based on the fact that he himself never experienced such a thing in Manchester :squiffy:
 
Well, that was my first thought when I read the part in Autobiography, although there's not much to go by.

Generally not a fan of assuming people's orientation, but the way Morrissey tried to turn the tables in that Piccadilly Radio quote was a bit questionable either way.

Will listen to the whole interview tomorrow, but apparently the interviewer called Morrissey's recollection of him and James Maker being chased and almost beaten up by gay bashers a lie, solely based on the fact that he himself never experienced such a thing in Manchester :squiffy:

???

It still happens!!!
 
I don't think he can help it - he's naturally hyperbolic.

The vast majority of his interviews go by without incident & then occasionally a writer will misunderstand, dislike or misrepresent him, there's a huge storm, he gets angry, hides for a while, gets forgiven for the thing he didn't do & it starts again.

It probably feels quite random to him.

Yes, I agree that Morrissey has gone through this cycle several times in the 80s and 90s and even after that. Some journalists have indeed come to the interview with the portrait of Morrissey that they want to show already firmly decided in their head, and they fish for the quotes that can be fitted into that picture. All the information posted on that Moore interview would confirm this assumption that the guy already had a theory in mind that he wanted to prove.

Does it feel quite random to Morrissey? I wouldn't think so. To me, it seems like it added to his paranoia, mistrust of people and bitterness.
 
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