Has Morrissey really changed?

A

Anonymous

Guest
Wasn't really thought of as a syndrome 'til the 80's, and not commonly diagnosed 'til a decade after that. If someone's older than 40 or so, you'd be hard pressed to find diagnoses while young. And from what I've seen, it's far more diagnosed in the USA than the UK
He's said multiple times that he has Tourettes, but I've always been inclined to think he was joking and being flippant, Any opinions?
 

countthree

Well-Known Member
Maybe he's not been diagnosed. Everyone is on the spectrum to some degree. One of the defining characteristics is to have extraordinary verbal language skills.

Other characteristics:

Difficulty with social interactions
Restricted interests
Desire for sameness
Distinctive strengths

Strengths can include:

Remarkable focus and persistence
Aptitude for recognizing patterns
Attention to detail
Challenges can include:

Hypersensitivities (to lights, sounds, tastes, etc.)
Difficulty with the give and take of conversation
Difficulty with nonverbal conversation skills (distance, loudness, tone, etc.)
Uncoordinated movements, or clumsiness
Anxiety and depression
The tendencies described above vary widely among people. Many learn to overcome their challenges by building on strengths.

Does someone else have most of those characteristics or is it just me?
 

Kenmare

Well-Known Member
Does someone else have most of those characteristics or is it just me?
If you look at the "symptoms," perhaps.

This is a more helpful and deeper dive into how Asperger's Syndrome is diagnosed

https://www.autismspeaks.org/dsm-5-criteria

Edited to add...this, from the NIH, is even more helpful re. adults:

Box 2
DSM extensions after Adult Asperger Assessment (AAA) (modified)
Ad A) Difficulties in understanding social situations and other people’s thoughts and feelings

Ad B) Tendency to think of issues as being black and white, rather than considering multiple perspectives in a flexible way

Additionally: Qualitative impairments in verbal or nonverbal communication with at least three of the following symptoms:

  1. Tendency to turn any conversation back on to self or own topic of interest

  2. Marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others. Cannot see the point of superficial social contact, niceties, or passing time with others, unless there is a clear discussion point/debate or activity.

  3. Pedantic style of speaking, inclusion of too much detail

  4. Inability to recognize when the listener is interested or bored

  5. Frequent tendency to say things without considering the emotional impact on the listener
Additionally: Impairment in at least one of the criteria relating to childhood imagination:

  1. Lack of varied, spontaneous make believe play appropriate to developmental level

  2. Inability to tell, write or generate spontaneous, unscripted or unplagiarized fiction

  3. Either lack of interest in fiction (written, or drama) appropriate to developmental level or interest in fiction is restricted to its possible basis in fact (e.g. science fiction, history, technical aspects of film)
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2695286/
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
When he needed people to make money, he HAD to be nice. It was required. Now he's older and he has money, he doesn't give a shit any more and has reverted to what he always was underneath while he needed other people. The donation to Love Music Hate Racism was a hollow and calculated business decision. The man is an island now, and he's changed in the sense that he doesn't need to hide his true feelings anymore. It was, is and will continue to be all about the money. I was taken in, I freely admit it. I'm ashamed of how I was fooled by this charade. To dress his views as still standing up for the small person is absurd and wrong. Either you empathise with people suffering or fleeing persecution, or you don't. Either you can put yourself in someone else's shoes or you can't. Similarly you can either take responsibility for your own mistakes or you can't. Morrissey can do none of the above, and it's a crying shame. A shame for what he was, is and remains. An isolated figure surrounded by people he's paid to tell him how great he is.
You're a disgrace. I assume you're a very lonely old man. And write nothing more about empathy ....you don't understand anything about that.
By the way, Morrissey is the last one who has to pay for love or friendship.
 

countthree

Well-Known Member
If you look at the "symptoms," perhaps.

This is a more helpful and deeper dive into how Asperger's Syndrome is diagnosed

https://www.autismspeaks.org/dsm-5-criteria

Edited to add...this, from the NIH, is even more helpful re. adults:

Box 2
DSM extensions after Adult Asperger Assessment (AAA) (modified)
Ad A) Difficulties in understanding social situations and other people’s thoughts and feelings

Ad B) Tendency to think of issues as being black and white, rather than considering multiple perspectives in a flexible way

Additionally: Qualitative impairments in verbal or nonverbal communication with at least three of the following symptoms:

  1. Tendency to turn any conversation back on to self or own topic of interest

  2. Marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others. Cannot see the point of superficial social contact, niceties, or passing time with others, unless there is a clear discussion point/debate or activity.

  3. Pedantic style of speaking, inclusion of too much detail

  4. Inability to recognize when the listener is interested or bored

  5. Frequent tendency to say things without considering the emotional impact on the listener
Additionally: Impairment in at least one of the criteria relating to childhood imagination:

  1. Lack of varied, spontaneous make believe play appropriate to developmental level

  2. Inability to tell, write or generate spontaneous, unscripted or unplagiarized fiction

  3. Either lack of interest in fiction (written, or drama) appropriate to developmental level or interest in fiction is restricted to its possible basis in fact (e.g. science fiction, history, technical aspects of film)
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2695286/


Thank you! Very interesting, indeed. I was looking for Nobility Syndrome in those mental health pages but I couldn't find it. Strange, isn't it? I wish someone take the time to describe it because it seems a much more dangerous syndrome, especially for other people.

Symptoms: Delusion, inability to empathize with other people's pain, tendency to think everybody else was born to serve them, difficulty in understanding they are not good just because they were born in a given situation, tendency to rule other people's lives towards their own interests, pedantry, etc. We could write a book or two, but historians already did it. The thing is some people still don't get it.

Source: History books.
 

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
The most dangerous people out there (to the establishment) are those who would sacrifice everything for what they believe in and know to be the truth.

The killing of your career. Social ostracisation. Prison. A firing squad.

Morrissey is one of those people.

So am I.

 
A

Anonymous

Guest
You're a disgrace. I assume you're a very lonely old man. And write nothing more about empathy ....you don't understand anything about that.
By the way, Morrissey is the last one who has to pay for love or friendship.
I think a lot of people would want to be friends with him or even more!!!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The most dangerous people out there (to the establishment) are those who would sacrifice everything for what they believe in and know to be the truth. The killing of your career. Social ostracisation. Prison. A firing squad.
Morrissey is one of those people.
So am I.

Know to be the truth? What?
Morrissey is a totally muddled f***wit when it comes to politics. He genuinely hasn't got a f***ing clue. He urged Americans to back Bernie Sanders and he praised George Galloway. He then advises everyone to support For Britain. He is the most muddled, idiotic f***wit in the world when it comes to political commentary. He does not even understand the basics, and that's why he's getting ripped to pieces by the media. He simply can't respond to their accusations. It's painful to watch.
 

Stephen Hofmann

Well-Known Member
Moz is the most conservative man in music you can find and his hate was personal and about what kind of people they were. People who were well off killing foxes who voted Tory.

It was more their lifestyle and taste that triggered him and not the politics as such. He'd want England to be like it was 200 years ago.

If only it was............but with added indoor toilets.
 

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
Know to be the truth? What?
Morrissey is a totally muddled f***wit when it comes to politics. He genuinely hasn't got a f***ing clue. He urged Americans to back Bernie Sanders and he praised George Galloway. He then advises everyone to support For Britain. He is the most muddled, idiotic f***wit in the world when it comes to political commentary. He does not even understand the basics, and that's why he's getting ripped to pieces by the media. He simply can't respond to their accusations. It's painful to watch.
Moz obviously believes in people. Out of a bad bunch Sanders seemed like the kind of politician who cared more for people than satisfying the usual captains of industry (whether true or false) so I wasn't surprised that he was Moz's choice.

It follows that in Britain Moz would support a fringe party as Labour and Conservative seem exhausted now (do either of them have any true fans anymore, or is it just a case of there being 'nothing else'?). It feels as if it's been this way for a while now and people are looking for alternatives.

So when Moz put his support behind For Britain it seemed unsurprising to me. Despite the scathing hype by the establishment press (that so many people brainlessly repeat) they are a fairly centrist party who claim to be for the working class (which the main two parties are clearly not). Immigration is an issue that worries many people in the UK, mostly the working class who as a result have more competition in the workplace and lower wages as a direct result of immigration. The more the establishment attempt to brush off their genuine concerns with accusations of racism, the more people will turn away from mainstream politics.
 
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ForgotHowIGotMyName

Well-Known Member
In the 1980's, Morrissey was all about being anti Tory, anti thatcher. it seemed to me he viewed them as a threat to the common people that are the real fabric of Britian, the people who do the working, and dying, for the UK.

One thing to note is that the aspects of Thatcherism that Moz was complaining about in the 80's are no longer exclusively right-wing problems. Post-Cold War, the mainstream Left adopted a lot of Thatcher's economic policies. That's what New Labor was all about: combining Thatcher's popular economic policies with the Left's relaxed social attitudes. Today's neo-liberal Left is just as pro-Big Business and anti-worker as Thatcher ever was.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I don't think he's changed that much at all. Even in the days of the Smiths, he was constantly harking back to a romanticised vision of some vanished (and possibly never-existed-in-the-first-place) England of the past, so I think his dislike of mass immigration is consistent with that whole mindset.
 
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