I think Israel, in the song, is a person

butley

Well-Known Member
Morrissey often names people after places or things (Gelato, Skull Cap...) and I think Israel is talking to and about a person not a nation. This may have been discussed. Sorry if it has.
 

Peppermint

Well-Known Member
Morrissey often names people after places or things (Gelato, Skull Cap...) and I think Israel is talking to and about a person not a nation. This may have been discussed. Sorry if it has.
Interesting. But I think it's fairly transparently about gay rights/freedom, (since Tel Aviv is the 'gay capital of the world'), contrasted with the oppression of his Catholic upbringing and its 'virgin priests'. What makes you think it's about a person?
 

Ketamine Sun

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Morrissey often names people after places or things (Gelato, Skull Cap...) and I think Israel is talking to and about a person not a nation. This may have been discussed. Sorry if it has.

Interesting, could very well be. Nothings transparent when it comes to Morrissey. Has he ever been asked in an interview? It’s the only way to know, no use with our mere opinions guesses and assumptions here. Though obviously sung from a huma perspective.
 

Ketamine Sun

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Also take for instance At Amber. Is Amber a place? a person? or a state of being? Like an ant stuck in amber as his invalid friend is stuck in a bed or wheel chair?



Morrissey often names people after places or things (Gelato, Skull Cap...) and I think Israel is talking to and about a person not a nation. This may have been discussed. Sorry if it has.
 

Eldritch

Well-Known Member
I think Israel is such a stunningly beautiful song with amazing vocals, so for once and just for this time I'm willing to overlook the confused politics and partially iffy lyrics. For me this is the highlight of LIHS.
 

Peppermint

Well-Known Member
I think Israel is such a stunningly beautiful song with amazing vocals, so for once and just for this time I'm willing to overlook the confused politics and partially iffy lyrics. For me this is the highlight of LIHS.
I agree. I think it's an unexpected triumph. I also think people who complain about the title completely miss the point; I don't hear any politics in it at all, for me it's all about gay freedom/oppression, and quite devastatingly expressed for a man at his time of life. But of course, being the seasoned old troll that he is, he would know full well the controversy it would cause to call a song Israel.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Also take for instance At Amber. Is Amber a place? a person? or a state of being? Like an ant stuck in amber as his invalid friend is stuck in a bed or wheel chair?

I think he means amber the colour...
To be at amber would then mean to be at a yellow light, not stopped completely but not quite free to go.
 

Hughes

Member
I also think the song is about gay rights and that Morrissey is using the entire country of Israel as a metaphor by drawing parallels between how Israel is commonly negatively viewed as a country and how gay people are also sometimes seen in a negative light by many people (although definitely to a lesser extent than they have been in the past). Obviously Morrissey supports gay people and I think it's fair to say that he probably supports Israel and this song is his way of expressing his belief that both parties are unjustifiably hard done by.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I don’t know that he supports Israel the country but he does enjoy a lot of the people. Like many places he visits he probably separates the people from the government and it’s actions hence the line I cannot answer for what armies do.

I always imagined at amber to refer to a time. A sunset or sunrise or just the idea of going outside and leaving the bed behind
 

Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
I also think the song is about gay rights and that Morrissey is using the entire country of Israel as a metaphor by drawing parallels between how Israel is commonly negatively viewed as a country and how gay people are also sometimes seen in a negative light by many people (although definitely to a lesser extent than they have been in the past). Obviously Morrissey supports gay people and I think it's fair to say that he probably supports Israel and this song is his way of expressing his belief that both parties are unjustifiably hard done by.

Wut?
 

!Viva Hate!

pls scream inside your heart ⚧
No. To everything in this thread.
 

butley

Well-Known Member
Yes, it’s about gay rights of course but substitute the word Israel for a name and it works still. It’s a beautiful number.
 

countthree

Well-Known Member
I also think the song is about gay rights and that Morrissey is using the entire country of Israel as a metaphor by drawing parallels between how Israel is commonly negatively viewed as a country and how gay people are also sometimes seen in a negative light by many people (although definitely to a lesser extent than they have been in the past). Obviously Morrissey supports gay people and I think it's fair to say that he probably supports Israel and this song is his way of expressing his belief that both parties are unjustifiably hard done by.

Totally. If you support gay rights you must support Israel, considering the alternative. Probably it's about a gay person, the country and the myth of Jacob (or Israel) spending the night wrestling with "an angel" and seeing the face of God after defeating him. If you think about it, lyrics are brilliantly conceived.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I agree. I think it's an unexpected triumph. I also think people who complain about the title completely miss the point; I don't hear any politics in it at all, for me it's all about gay freedom/oppression, and quite devastatingly expressed for a man at his time of life. But of course, being the seasoned old troll that he is, he would know full well the controversy it would cause to call a song Israel.

The words are idiotic but the music is wonderful.
Compare the mediocre rubbish of 80% of the Alain Whyte songs (e.g. Roy's Keen, Best Friend on the Payroll, Father must be killed) with the soaring, elegant beauty of Israel, and be grateful that Morrissey finally has some brilliant songwriters for the first time since the early 90s.
 
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vegan cro spirit 222

Guest
Morrissey often names people after places or things (Gelato, Skull Cap...) and I think Israel is talking to and about a person not a nation. This may have been discussed. Sorry if it has.

:mad:

do you need to trigger troll skinny AND peppermints?doh:
 

Ketamine Sun

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I think he means amber the colour...
To be at amber would then mean to be at a yellow light, not stopped completely but not quite free to go.

Is that a British thing? To say one is at Amber means to be at a yellow light ?

But also take into consideration that the songs working title was ‘The bed took fire’. So the song seems to be taking place from inside a place, not out on the street.


Though only Moz knows.
 
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bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
Morrissey often names people after places or things (Gelato, Skull Cap...) and I think Israel is talking to and about a person not a nation. This may have been discussed. Sorry if it has.
I do too, Israel can actually be used as a mans name. Here in NZ we have a famous rugby player called Israel. I think the song is both about a man and the rights of gay people in the Middle East. I think it has very little, in fact nothing at all, to do with geo-politics which of course does suit the narrative of Morrissey haters in this forum, Uncle Skinny etc,
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Nope, Israel is a fake country given to them at the expense of the world from where they can continue to be greedy and control the world while people do their best to ignore it.
One day the jews will get what they deserve as nazis and muslims will join up and end their existance.

INSHALLAH
 

countthree

Well-Known Member
I do too, Israel can actually be used as a mans name. Here in NZ we have a famous rugby player called Israel. I think the song is both about a man and the rights of gay people in the Middle East. I think it has very little, in fact nothing at all, to do with geo-politics which of course does suit the narrative of Morrissey haters in this forum, Uncle Skinny etc,

It's a beautiful name, considering the original meaning of the name.
 
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