If there's genocide, don't hold your breath waiting for European help

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This reminds me of when Bill Clinton refused to publicly call the...uh...genocide in Rwanda a "genocide," because if he had done so, under the Genocide Convention, he'd have had to act.

Today, Clinton refers to this as one of his greatest failures as president.

Have you learned nothing, Europe?

Sudan massacres are not genocide, says EU

Rory Carroll, Africa correspondent
Tuesday August 10, 2004
The Guardian

The EU said yesterday there was widespread violence in the Darfur region of Sudan but the killings were not genocidal, a potentially crucial distinction which underlined its reluctance to intervene.
"We are not in the situation of genocide there," Pieter Feith, an adviser to the EU's foreign policy chief, Javier Solana, said in Brussels after returning from a fact-finding visit to Sudan.

"But it is clear there is widespread, silent and slow killing and village burning of a fairly large scale. There are considerable doubts as to the willingness of Sudan's government to assume its duty to protect its civilian population against attacks."

He said in the absence of willingness to send a significant military force, the EU and others had little choice but to cooperate with Khartoum.

The announcement is bound to anger those impatient for stronger international pressure on Sudan.

....

Genocide is defined as a calculated effort to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, but the debate over its meaning is political, not semantic.

The genocide convention, adopted by the UN in 1948, calls on signatories to "prevent" and "punish" genocide. If governments accept events in Darfur amount to genocide they would be obliged to intervene.
 
who the hell do you think you are

faulting a whole continent on an issue which you are not part of
 
Re: who the hell do you think you are

> faulting a whole continent on an issue which you are not part of

But I am part of it. We all are. When genocide occurs in this world, it is the whole world's business. Our governments have signed the Genocide Convention.
And I petitioned my congresswoman to vote Yay in declaring it a genocide in Sudan, which the U.S. House of Representatives did, last month, 422-0.

I realize idiotic isolationism is the trendy stance of the day. Who cares what Saddam Hussein was up to, let him be. Who cares how many were slaughtered in Rwanda, we're too busy worrying about the next Morrissey CD. Who cares if 30,000 have been killed so far in Sudan, and 1 million displaced, in what is the worst humanitarian crisis at the present time, we're still recovering from that exciting EuroCup.

You read the article. Under the Genocide Convention, our governments are obligated to care...and to do something. Please write to your representatives before another 30,000 die. Because we know what is happening, we can do something about it, and if another 30,000 die, shame on us all, we are to blame.

With the USA over-extended in multiple places in the world, here is a great opportunity for Europe to step up to the plate and be leaders. But once again they decline. I guess they're hoping America will do it all, as usual.
 
Re: who the hell do you think you are

My point was that you haven't actually been to Sudan. It's not as simple as: there's thousands of people dying so let's send troops in to save them. Doing that could result in more deaths, could unsettle a situation which may result in more mercinaries commiting murder. You haven't been there, so you don't know.
 
Re: who the hell do you think you are

> My point was that you haven't actually been to Sudan. It's not as simple
> as: there's thousands of people dying so let's send troops in to save
> them. Doing that could result in more deaths, could unsettle a situation
> which may result in more mercinaries commiting murder. You haven't been
> there, so you don't know.

What I do know is where there is genocide, every country signed to the Genocide Convention must act, rather than saying they won't call genocide "genocide" in order to avoid acting.

It seems to me this was the kind of situation the United Nations was created to prevent. But under Kofi Anan's leadership, the United Nations has sat idly by as multiple genocides have occured. Those of us who keep asking what good the United Nations is in this world would actually LIKE to be proven wrong...for once.

Oh, but they did have that wonderfully corrupt Oil-for-Food program in Iraq!
 
who the hell do i think i am

correct me if i'm wrong, but Toffee is a whatcacallit
 
Re: Isnt this similar to the accusations you made about us DD?

Didnt you say most americans have poor grammar?????? whats the matter,you can dish it out but you cant take it??????? nothin pisses me off more than someone who's phoney. It's ok when it's something you say or you believe in,but as soon as it goes against your way of thinking,it's wrong or a crime???? f*** YOU!!!!!!
 
Re: Isnt this similar to the accusations you made about us DD?

Hahahaha, I always suspected that Americans don't know what irony means from your TV "comedies", but that just proves it.
 
Re: No,what it "proves" is...I'm right,you're wrong,and you got caught.

hahahaha,I never "suspected" you were a fulla shit ass clown,I knew you were...big difference assbag.
 
you still don't get it do you

how sad.

so tell me: what's an "ass clown"?!
 
Re: who the hell do you think you are

Sorry colin Powell. Look jerky,while I agree with your way of thinking about us sending our troops there to commit more useless deaths,I doubt you have been there as well. It's easy for other countries to make fun of or joke about how bad we are and how much they hate us,yet,the truth is,we fund most of the countries in this world,when it comes time for them to pay back,it's always a bunch of excuses. Most of our tax dollars,go to help other countries in catastrophies and other happenings,so I guess it's easy for people to hate us. I dont agree with the war and i dont agree with sending our troops there to fight about something that really didnt concern us,but still,without the support of US Dollars,most countries would crumble and most countries wouldnt survive. Must be nice to criticize and make a complete assbag of yourself towards americans when we're the ones who are paying your countries wages,keeping you fed,etc.
 
Re: who the hell do you think you are

Of course I haven't - that was my point - the members of our Governments are much more informed about these matters than we are (after all, it's their job). Which is why I think it takes something substantial to critisize them - after all, I'm sure they always know more than we do.
 
Re: who the hell do you think you are

Yep,thats correct.
 
Re: What's there to "get"?? did you or did you not make that claim?????

How am I said??? you made the blanket statement/accusation yesterday that "MOST AMERICANS HAVE POOR GRAMMAR" correct???? well,where's your rpoof on that???? how did you come to this conclusion????? when I pointed out that most brits dont shower or bathe or brush their teethy regularly,you all of a sudden changed subjercts and still didnt give me anything to back up your initial claim???? You dont have to like us,you can hate us,but when you need someone(or anyone else does),who's the first country they buddy up to and kiss ass with????? THE US why???? again,we finance most countries and pay their wages,etc. So it's easy to hate us and so forth.

But again,you made the statement that most of us have poor grammar,how is that????? alot of americans as Im sure brist are as well,are educated,some more than others. I have a bachelors degree,does that mean I might be smarter than you??? no,but it means i can adapt better maybe??? maybe I can do things a little better than you because I have the knowledge and know how?????

You stuck your foot in your mouth.I called you on it. We can agree to disagree.
 
Re: What's there to "get"?? did you or did you not make that claim?????

I was taking the piss; because, after all, most people from every country can't grasp grammar.

What has America's contributions to the world economy got to do with this?
 
Re: What's there to "get"?? did you or did you not make that claim?????

> How am I said??? you made the blanket statement/accusation yesterday that
> "MOST AMERICANS HAVE POOR GRAMMAR" correct???? well,where's your
> rpoof on that???? how did you come to this conclusion????? when I pointed
> out that most brits dont shower or bathe or brush their teethy
> regularly,you all of a sudden changed subjercts and still didnt give me
> anything to back up your initial claim???? You dont have to like us,you
> can hate us,but when you need someone(or anyone else does),who's the first
> country they buddy up to and kiss ass with????? THE US why???? again,we
> finance most countries and pay their wages,etc. So it's easy to hate us
> and so forth.

> But again,you made the statement that most of us have poor grammar,how is
> that????? alot of americans as Im sure brist are as well,are educated,some
> more than others. I have a bachelors degree,does that mean I might be
> smarter than you??? no,but it means i can adapt better maybe??? maybe I
> can do things a little better than you because I have the knowledge and
> know how?????

> You stuck your foot in your mouth.I called you on it. We can agree to
> disagree.

Where do you get your evidence from that most British people stink?

Is that not a generalisation too?

And a false one too I might add.
 
Re: What's there to "get"?? did you or did you not make that claim?????

ok,on that note,what does proper grammar have to do with morrissey????? again,you made the statements man,dont change the subject yet again. So,everyone isnt very well versed in proper gbrammar,but you just contradicted yourself again. First you said "most americans cant graps the concept of grammar"???? then you say that most countries or people cant.so which is it????? if it's the latter,how did the US get pointed to in this moreso than those "other countries" as you mention?????
 
Re: What's there to "get"?? did you or did you not make that claim?????

No,it was said in rebuttle to what he said.........yes,i was trying to make a point towards him,just like he thought or tried with us....I could make blanket statements like that all night,as you can too,but without proof,is it true that most americans cant grasp the concept of proper grammar????

is it true that most brits cant shower/bathe or brush their teeth daily??? how do we know?????? thats what i was trying to say. It was more so a way of throwing it back into his face saying"I cant show you how ignorant you are too" with what you said...and I did.which is what I wanted to do with those statements i said.
 
It's the EVER-SO-BORING Loafing Oaf, that's who he is!
 
sweetheart, you seem to be forgetting that in WW2 the brits attacked germany LONG before the arrival of the american calvary.
 
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