Make sure you vote on 4 June 09 and stop the BNP!

Re: Make sure you vote on Thursday and stop the BNP!

Nonsense. Admittedly, we exist in a bogus political system that caters to the wealthy and wicked, but this is a copout. Take the last few presidential elections, if all the people who share this bogus idea had actually showed up to the polls in 2000 would we be living in a utopian workers’ paradise? Certainly not. But Bush would never have gotten to the White House, the US would never have invaded and occupied Iraq and Afghanistan, and probably collectively a million or more people would not have been killed or maimed or mutilated, etc. Thats’ f***ing substantial reason in itself. This holier-than-thou, extreme, rejectionist stance is so counterproductive. I never said the system wasn’t f***ed, but does that mean everything the government does is inherently evil or worthless. Reality is more complex and nuanced. For example the Kyoto protocols or the FISSBAN treaty which could’ve virtually ended the threat of nuclear war, or closing the SOA, or increasing social spending, etc., etc. Presently the “Employee Free Choice Act’ which will make it much easier to form unions, and provide better protections for labor rights Wal-Mart is absolutely terrified of it. Will it save the world in a day? Definitely not, but it’s still a worthy cause. (All Americans please go here to find out more and join the campaign to get the Employee Free Choice Act passed here: http://www.aflcio.org/joinaunion/voiceatwork/efca/) Also, not voting is EXACTLY what they want you to do.

It's really naive of you if you think that if another president had got in, we wouldn't have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. It amuses me how almost every president or prime minister who gets elected, by the end of their term, people are going on about how they're the worst president/prime minister ever. There's always a honeymoon period, before everyone starts to become disillusioned. Why they never become disillusioned with the system is beyond me.

As for Kyoto, wow, and there was me thinking that they sold off our planet and environment...oh wait.

No form of democracy, even direct democracy will work if you don’t participate. This is a classic self-fulfilling prophecy. Not to mention you’re in a pretty convenient situation to be saying that.

I don't think that you can ever have a functioning democracy, even direct democracy, for whole countries. We'd have to drastically reduce the size of our communities before democracy could even vaguely represent the needs of those communities. But any system where anyone's view is worth more than anyone else's is politically and emotionally abhorrent.
 
Re: Make sure you vote on Thursday and stop the BNP!

Munchy Brain: but what is the realistic alternative to Democracy?

In sociology, there's a specific number of people, I believe it's around 200, that is the largest number of people who can function as a close community. So we need to organise to groups of <200, probably by geographical location, and operate on consensus decision making.
 
Re: Make sure you vote on Thursday and stop the BNP!

I don't ask them to vote a particular party which I'd like to vote.
Only remind them not to waste their votes.
Although I pay tax and NI, the government doesn't allow me to vote.


Why is that? I have only lived here for a year and I'm allowed to vote.

And I will be voting green!
 
Re: Make sure you vote on Thursday and stop the BNP!

It's really naive of you if you think that if another president had got in, we wouldn't have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan.

No, it's simply a matter of fact. Obviously without a time machine we can't sketch out what the Gore administration would have been like in crystal clarity, but we can definitely draw some conclusions. Theres' no reason to believe he would've invaded Iraq after 9/11 (And, thusly, the UK wouldn't be involved as we dragged you in.) because there was no connection between Iraq and 9/11, the Bush administration was pretty sure of this, the difference is they didn't care, they had a project and this opened a unique oppertunity.


It amuses me how almost every president or prime minister who gets elected, by the end of their term, people are going on about how they're the worst president/prime minister ever.

First of all there are very fundamental differences between our systems, we have a constitution and bill of rights, whereas your system does not. Second, while, yes, our leaders in many ways are just pale reflections of eachother, there are differences. Compare the Reagan and Carter administrations, you can find fault with both, but Reagan was wayyy more hawkish, really stepped up US aggression, and really declared war against the working class. Wages for working class Americans adjusted for inflation have been in decline since 1981, this is not a coincidence. The difference between bad and worse, or godawful and mediocre, may seem pointless, but it can have substantial, real human consequences.


There's always a honeymoon period, before everyone starts to become disillusioned. Why they never become disillusioned with the system is beyond me.

I think it's plain I have no love for "the system." However, there are some problems that are simply too large to be dealt with at a local level. (Admittedly many of these are actually the result of monolithic institutions, but that doesn't change much.) Also while I find the state objectionable in many ways, it can and occasionally does, do good things. For example, I'd love to have you're nationalized healthcare system, or the Australian system which is better.


As for Kyoto, wow, and there was me thinking that they sold off our planet and environment...oh wait.

What realistic alternative do you have? Seriously. Obviously, we need some kind of international effort, it needs to be coordinated. If the united states had actually taken the lead instead of fighting it, a lot could be accomplished. Was it enough? No. But it was a step, and it presents a viable model for future endeavors.


I don't think that you can ever have a functioning democracy, even direct democracy, for whole countries. We'd have to drastically reduce the size of our communities before democracy could even vaguely represent the needs of those communities. But any system where anyone's view is worth more than anyone else's is politically and emotionally abhorrent.

I............don't even know where to begin. How do you possibly intend on implementing this masterplan? How would this society meet it's needs? How would this society deal with nuclear proliferation, or pandemic? How would it operate something like the international space station, or the ITER nuclear fusion reactor currently under construction in the south of France? (Which incidentally might pave the way for inexhaustible clean power, the implications of which can't possibly be overstated.) It's simply too rigid and structurally compromised. Moreover it seems to rest on a very negative and one-dimensional conception of freedom.
 
Re: Make sure you vote on Thursday and stop the BNP!

Sorry Jukebox you aren't even in the top ten ;)

Your just in front of The Beast (whatever happened to him?) and Rome

If any london soloers fancy pulling up their sleeves and delivering a few leaflets or even knocking on a few days, you would be more than welcome in Mile End. I will be running a campaign all day (5:00am to 9:30pm) just drop me a PM and I'll send you my address/mobile!

Whatever you do VOTE!!!
 
Re: Make sure you vote on Thursday and stop the BNP!

Sorry Jukebox you aren't even in the top ten ;)

Your just in front of The Beast (whatever happened to him?) and Rome

VOTE!!!

I'll remember that next time you are looking for sponsors for the marathon and a bed in Manchester:p

Still, every cloud has a silver lining, and as long as I'm in front of those two misfits mentioned I suppose it can't be that bad:thumb:

Jukebox Jury
 
Re: Make sure you vote on Thursday and stop the BNP!

Why is that? I have only lived here for a year and I'm allowed to vote.
yeah Kewpie confused me a bit too. i had the poll thingy person come to me place when i moved here and i put me name on the poll thingy. there was no "oh you're an illegal immigrant you cant vote" or anythin. so i assume i can vote tomorrow ay?


If any london soloers fancy pulling up their sleeves and delivering a few leaflets or even knocking on a few days, you would be more than welcome in Mile End. I will be running a campaign all day (5:00am to 9:30pm) just drop me a PM and I'll send you my address/mobile!
if you were in west london i'd a been happy to help. with me work im goin from house to house anyway (garbage collector ay) so i coulda doubled it up with giving out leaflets.

ive tried to do my bit by taken BNP leaflets out of peoples letterboxes and sending them straight to the garbage. not even worth recycling.

and i too will be voting green!
 
Re: Make sure you vote on Thursday and stop the BNP!

Sorry Jukebox you aren't even in the top ten ;)

Your just in front of The Beast (whatever happened to him?) and Rome

If any london soloers fancy pulling up their sleeves and delivering a few leaflets or even knocking on a few days, you would be more than welcome in Mile End. I will be running a campaign all day (5:00am to 9:30pm) just drop me a PM and I'll send you my address/mobile!

Whatever you do VOTE!!!

what did i do wrong?
 
Re: Make sure you vote on Thursday and stop the BNP!

I've just been discussing with Mrs Skinny if, after voting, writing "f*** the BNP" on the slip would count as a spoiled paper. After all, I'd registered my vote.

Peter
 
Re: Make sure you vote on Thursday and stop the BNP!

I've just been discussing with Mrs Skinny if, after voting, writing "f*** the BNP" on the slip would count as a spoiled paper. After all, I'd registered my vote.

Peter

Take your ballot paper into a polling booth so that no one can see how you vote. Read the ballot paper carefully, it will tell you how to cast your vote. Do not write anything else on the paper or your vote may not be counted.

http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/how_do_i_vote/voting_in_person.aspx
 
Re: Make sure you vote on Thursday and stop the BNP!

well to take your anger out on the BNP, instead of writing "f*** the BNP" on ya ballot paper instead throw fresh turd on the guy handing out BNP voting guides
 
Re: Make sure you vote on Thursday and stop the BNP!

I saw in the MEN the other day a story about a load of postmen in Manchester refusing to deliver their scummy nonsense saying they would get killed in Moss side, Burnage etc... You would think they could do their own dirty work. BNP bastards.
 
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