Morrissey is "best musical poet"

Looking forward to reading the chapter in Hopps' book in which he successfully distinguishes Morrissey's "poetic genius" from the surrounding clatter known as a "band".
 
Looking forward to reading the chapter in Hopps' book in which he successfully distinguishes Morrissey's "poetic genius" from the surrounding clatter known as a "band".

Morrissey is NOT, in my opinion a poet. He could be but he isnt.

He is a fantastic lyricist (is that how you spell it??), probably one of the best there ever has been.

Poetry is very different to singing.

For me this kind of book is entering into the realms of Hyperbolic nonsense that Moz tends to normally rise above.
 
Morrissey is NOT, in my opinion a poet. He could be but he isnt.

He is a fantastic lyricist (is that how you spell it??), probably one of the best there ever has been.

Poetry is very different to singing.

For me this kind of book is entering into the realms of Hyperbolic nonsense that Moz tends to normally rise above.

Well, he isn't a poet in the sense Hopps, an "expert on the Romantics", seems to think.

Any comparison between Morrissey and Byron, Keats, et al, is useless if it does not take into consideration the music which accompanies Morrissey's words. Anyone who thinks "There Is A Light That Never Goes Out", for example, would be as beloved without Marr's composition is kidding himself. Hobbs' book is academic wheel-spinning unless a good portion of the book is devoted to the ways in which Morrissey's words are enhanced by Marr, Street, Whyte, Boorer, Ronson, and the rest.

Really it's a lot more than just the music. As Morrissey himself would attest, it's the vinyl, the sleeves, the concerts, the t-shirts, the glamourous photos in the newspapers, the scandalized faces that greet a thirteen year-old's purple hair-- the entire world of pop culture, in short. Morrissey would probably admit that Byron is a better writer than Sandie Shaw (meaning Chris Andrews), but he'd trade all the poems Byron ever wrote for a single Sandie Shaw 45. Pop music isn't simply poetry in a different form. I just hope Hopps takes this into account.
 
Poetry has it's own music. The words create rhythms and melodies.

Lyrics require music.

That's why most (but not all) attempts to set poetry to music fail and why most (but, again, not all) lyrics when read as poetry sound faintly ridiculous.

All that being said, I think it is possible to subject lyrics by artists such as Morrissey to the same kind of rigorous criticism that is usually reserved for 'serious' works of poetry.
 
All that being said, I think it is possible to subject lyrics by artists such as Morrissey to the same kind of rigorous criticism that is usually reserved for 'serious' works of poetry.

Sure, of course he can and should be taken seriously as an artist. But just ask yourself, if you were sitting down to write an essay about "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore" or "You Have Killed Me", could you really explain the power of either song without addressing the guitar, bass, and drums? Even if you argued that Morrissey was 80% of the reason the songs worked, you couldn't get away from the backing music, or (as I said above) any of the other peripheral elements.

I don't know if Hopps does this or not, but I'm already suspicious because when you try and fit Morrissey into the canon of English poets it's already a case of comparing apples to oranges, IMO. Is Morrissey a great and serious artist, though? Yes. Why not just say he's the greatest pop singer ever, and be done with it? Would anyone be offended if he were ranked alongside Bob Dylan, Frank Sinatra, and Paul McCartney instead of Byron, Keats and Wilde?
 
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Sure, of course he can and should be taken seriously as an artist. But just ask yourself, if you were sitting down to write an essay about "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore" or "You Have Killed Me", could you really explain the power of either song without addressing the guitar, bass, and drums? Even if you argued that Morrissey was 80% of the reason the songs worked, you couldn't get away from the backing music, or (as I said above) any of the other peripheral elements.

I agree. It depends on whether Hopps is claiming to critique the 'songs' and then turning his attention purely to the lyrics, which would be ridiculous, or whether his intention is to examine just the lyrics, which I think is perfectly valid.

Of course, the whole project has the potential to turn into an exercise in pretentious nonsense!
 
Sure, of course he can and should be taken seriously as an artist. But just ask yourself, if you were sitting down to write an essay about "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore" or "You Have Killed Me", could you really explain the power of either song without addressing the guitar, bass, and drums? Even if you argued that Morrissey was 80% of the reason the songs worked, you couldn't get away from the backing music, or (as I said above) any of the other peripheral elements.

True. Troy Tate Smiths recordings and Jack the Ripper springs to mind... As a song the impact of the lyrics and their meaning for me was diminished byt hte under par original.

However, the lyrics come alive with the better sound of the subsequent later and live versions.


He is a great Emotive singer, perhaps one of the best ever. However, most of his songs do not make the best poetry when read (not sung aloud)... Some do... this charming man;s opening lines are excellent poetry -

Punctured Bicycle,
On a hill side desolate,
Will nature make a man of me yet?

However, continue to read it as poetry and it loses its way. As a song it conitues to be marvellous.

This is especially true of songs with reptative choruses.

Poetry by definition is an expression of awareness through meaning, sound, and rhythmic language.

Morrissey's is at best an average poet by this defintion however, a great musical artist.
 
Morrissey's is at best an average poet by this defintion however, a great musical artist.

To be fair, he hasn't published any poetry. He might be a great poet. It certainly wouldn't be surprising.

But Morrissey is a lyricist, a crafter of vocal melodies and a singer. And he's not too shabby at it, either.
 
Tomorrow at Blackwells? I'll be there :D
 
To be fair, he hasn't published any poetry. He might be a great poet. It certainly wouldn't be surprising.

But Morrissey is a lyricist, a crafter of vocal melodies and a singer. And he's not too shabby at it, either.

I agree. 100%. I think I alluded to the fact he maybe a great poet in my first post- at least I attempted too. Just is we don't know... Yet.. I do have a sneaky feeling his poetry maybe up there with his acting ability. For
now I'll take the music.
 
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