'My Dearest Love' Discussion...

[Augustus]

Maybe that was his point. I didn't have any trouble finding the tracks, and my hard copies will be in my mailbox in the next few days. What was your point?

Patently obvious I would have hoped after seven pages of people who have had to steal the tracks because they couldn't buy them, download them or no longer have last century's technology with which to play them.

 

[joe frady]

I'm privileged (ok old) enough to remember the '80s. I remember how blazingly brilliant both Morrissey and Nick Cave were.

I have to say that while Nick surprises me with the continued quality of his output (god, you'd think that he would have run out of stories to tell by now), it's Morrissey who engages me emotionally. If you had told me twenty years ago that I'd be a Morrissey fanatic in the '00s, I would have laughed in your face.

Nick tells stories. He's exceptionally good at it. But I find that Nick just doesn't resonate with me personally any more - I can't say exactly why. Perhaps I've just heard him spin his tales for too long, and I'm familiar with the characters. His attitude has not really changed. I'm not knocking him, that's just how I feel. He's a genius, but I guess I'm over it.

Morrissey, on the other hand - he's unpredictable; his voice continues to express depths and subtleties that Nick does not possess. Nick has his feet firmly planted on the ground, but Morrissey continues to seem somehow ephemeral - like he's just going to self-destruct. It's fascinating to see how he continues to be an impossible person.

I could not have put it better myself. Brilliant.
Kind regards,
joe.

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

Patently obvious I would have hoped after seven pages of people who have had to steal the tracks because they couldn't buy them, download them or no longer have last century's technology with which to play them.

You are being deliberately obtuse. It's really not that hard. Buy the singles, then feel free to download them however you can.

If you don't like the way he does things, then simply excuse yourself and go download Radiohead or something. No one here will miss you.

 

[Comtesse]

Ditto your sentiments and high praise of nick Cave ! Now he IS a genius !

You know, I do love some Nick Cave stuff - especially Murder Ballads and "The Mercy Seat" - but to me, Nick Cave is all cerebral, no heart. He can write brilliantly, but his songs have no emotional impact on me at all... and for me, the greatest songs are emotional, not cerebral.

Morrissey, on the other hand, touches the heart, even in his most cerebral songs. When I listen to a Morrissey song, I feel like I know a little more about him, and often I feel like I know more about myself too; when I listen to Nick Cave, I feel like I'm being read to from a novel. A very good novel, but a work of fiction nonetheless. That's the crucial difference to me.

 

[Comtesse]

You are being deliberately obtuse. It's really not that hard. Buy the singles, then feel free to download them however you can.

If you don't like the way he does things, then simply excuse yourself and go download Radiohead or something. No one here will miss you.

Maybe I'm lost, but isn't the problem that he released it on 7" vinyl only... and most of us don't have turntables in this day and age?

 

[King Leer]

I think Augustus is making the point (with a medium-sized sledgehammer) that despite the different formats, all the tracks should at least be available as downloads in this day and age.

I bought the CD single but had to d/l My Dearest for free, though if it did become available as a $1 d/l on Decca's site I'd still buy it. Listening Decca?

I might even go for the live cover of Bowie's Drive In Saturday. What's the consensus on it? Is it better than the one from 2000 that I have an mp3 of? (was it only played once on that tour?)

Maybe I'm lost, but isn't the problem that he released it on 7" vinyl only... and most of us don't have turntables in this day and age?

 

[Augustus]

You are being deliberately obtuse. It's really not that hard. Buy the singles, then feel free to download them however you can.

If you don't like the way he does things, then simply excuse yourself and go download Radiohead or something. No one here will miss you.

I love you five minute Morrissey fans. So protective. It's very sweet.

I've been putting money in his pocket since 1983 sunshine so I'll reserve the right to say what I think on a public forum and just because you spend your day with your head up his arse it doesn't mean the rest of us have to. He used to be in a band apparently. Check it out on Wikipedia.

It is permitted to have a contrary opinion you know. We aren't all sheep baaing at his every explusion of wind.

 

[Augustus]

I think Augustus is making the point (with a medium-sized sledgehammer) that despite the different formats, all the tracks should at least be available as downloads in this day and age.

I bought the CD single but had to d/l My Dearest for free, though if it did become available as a $1 d/l on Decca's site I'd still buy it. Listening Decca?

The poor dear thinks I'm having a go at his icon though King Leer, when I'm clearly attacking his record company and their idiocy. Don't worry though. With fans like that Morrissey won't need any more enemies.

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

I love you five minute Morrissey fans. So protective. It's very sweet.

I've been putting money in his pocket since 1983 sunshine so I'll reserve the right to say what I think on a public forum and just because you spend your day with your head up his arse it doesn't mean the rest of us have to. He used to be in a band apparently. Check it out on Wikipedia.

It is permitted to have a contrary opinion you know. We aren't all sheep baaing at his every explusion of wind.

Wow, since 1983? Well, that trumps my early 1988, I'll admit. I only have twenty years in.

You don't have to be an ass about it. I think he's trying to make a point about vinyl, and make people go to a bit of trouble to get the song. I don't have a record player either. What difference does it make? It'll be on a compilation or on the new album soon enough. And you got the download, and you probably bought the vinyl to complete your collection, so... ??? If you don't want to spend any money, download it all illegally. I don't get it. While it's technically illegal, I consider my purchase of the vinyl to be a moral pass to download it. It doesn't really make a difference to me whether I was the one who ripped it.

And I wasn't telling you to shut up, I was disagreeing with you. But, as with most people, that's only a one way street. You're allowed to tell me to shut up, but your hackles go up if you think that's what I'm trying to do to you.

 

[oye terence]

Wow, since 1983? Well, that trumps my early 1988, I'll admit. I only have twenty years in.

awww man!!


you got me beat by like a year and half,I feel ashamed,I am gonna go now and join a arctic monkeys forum or maybe the radiohead one.


I like the difficulty he sometimes has for releasing his music,makes it a challenge,I long for the days of local record shops and having to go through bins apon bins of records and cds,many a favorite artist of mine i discovered not by what some rag went on about or what mtv told me was cool,but my spending hours going through those bins and simply finding things that interested me.

 

[King Leer]

I do think people overestimate how much Morrissey is involved with what decisions record companies make. He wants the backing of a label with history and a staff working to get his music out there, but beyond getting involved in sleeve design and credits he's not going to stand there and give direction. He may have only wanted My Dearest on vinyl but I doubt he told anybody "don't make it available for paid d/l". I'm sure the b-sides will go online at some point.

But you're getting overworked about what constitutes " a fan" IMO. Whether it's someone who wanders in here because they happen to like a couple of recent Moz-solo songs or someone who went to Smiths gigs in '83 and owns every release ever pressed -- it's all good, don't worry about it.

The poor dear thinks I'm having a go at his icon though King Leer, when I'm clearly attacking his record company and their idiocy. Don't worry though. With fans like that Morrissey won't need any more enemies.

 

[frodisman]

I would think Moz would have some say on weather or not this should be a vinyl only release or not.

 

[northernleech]

I know what you mean about some of his songs being very novelesque (?) but to say he lacks any emotion and "heart" is naive ! have a listen to "love letter" on the no more shall we part album - it is astoundingly beautiful. " i kiss the cold white envelope , i press my lips against her name , two hundred words , we live in hope , the sky hangs heavy with rain - love letter love letter - go get her - go get her" Morrissey has soundtracked my life for 23 years ( i was a late convert to the smiths - first single shakespeares sister) but I think he is coasting lyrically a lot of the time now - I do still think he is capable of some astounding beauty and I love some of his whimsical soundbites (paired of , pawed 'til I can barely stand it) but as he has already said , his lyrics almost spew out of him now , rather than being honed and perfected as ( I imagine ) they were in earlier years. He is still very special though !

 

[Anaesthesine]

awww man!!


you got me beat by like a year and half,I feel ashamed,I am gonna go now and join a arctic monkeys forum or maybe the radiohead one.


I like the difficulty he sometimes has for releasing his music,makes it a challenge,I long for the days of local record shops and having to go through bins apon bins of records and cds,many a favorite artist of mine i discovered not by what some rag went on about or what mtv told me was cool,but my spending hours going through those bins and simply finding things that interested me.

Hahahaha, I love when we whip out our, um, measuring sticks.

I started avoiding Morrissey in 1984.

There is a lovely, old-fashioned little record store a few towns over, run by an old punk. That vinyl smell, the dust sleeves, the bins where your fingers do the walking, it's all there. It brings a tear to my eye.

One day last year my husband and I walked in and they had the promo for "Ringleader" up on the wall (you know, the foldout with Morrissey walking the dog). Anyway, I asked the kid behind the counter if I could have it, and he ripped it down and gave it to me.

As I was skipping down the street hugging my big find, we looked at each other and laughed - I hadn't done that since the '80s. Morrissey brings out the dumb kid in me, for sure, as do old record stores.

 

[Orson Swells]

I asked this in Downloads, but do you think the really nice production job on this great song is due to Finn or Santaolalla?

Because as far as I am aware Santaolalla wasn't involved with the new album, was he? Which seems a shame.

 

[Anaesthesine]

I asked this in Downloads, but do you think the really nice production job on this great song is due to Finn or Santaolalla?

Because as far as I am aware Santaolalla wasn't involved with the new album, was he? Which seems a shame.

I agree completely.

I think Santaolalla made the difference on "My Dearest Love." Based on what he said about Morrissey in the interview posted here, he really "gets" him in a big way.

It is a real shame that he will not be involved with the album.

 

[Hellie]

So if he decides to make it difficult to get the tracks as he has with this release you welcome that? Very strange.

Without wishing to sound too ancient I dimly remember the days when a record was released and you just "bought it" rather than having to forage for it in a sort of insane digital easter egg hunt.

A curious concept today, I accept, but it seemed to work quite well.

I agree.I could only get the album coz I had to travel 25 miles to the nearest city and then HMV didn't have it.I got it in ASda in the end.Even the local Woolies didn't stock it.

I don't want a digital download.I want the packaging and preferably the lyrics.....but then I'm still an 80's girl at heart....I want TOPTP back etc.

 

[goinghome]

Anaesthesine wrote: …”it's Morrissey who engages me emotionally.” As variations on that theme, I’ve lifted some quotes from a book called “Emotions: a brief History” by Keith Oatley, after an initial familiar one.

“How I feel in my mind, and how I live in the world - they are oceans apart” – Sweetie Pie, Morrissey

To whom shall I speak today?
No-one is cheerful.
He with whom one walked is no more.

To whom shall I speak today?
I am burdened with grief
For lack of an intimate.

To whom shall I speak today?
Wrong roams the earth
And ends not.
- The Dispute between a Man and His Ba (soul; aka, ‘my dearest love’ in this case!), Egyptian writer, over 3000 years ago.


“At first he [anyone] is conscious of an emotion, but not conscious of what this emotion is. All he is conscious of is a perturbation or excitement, which he feels going on within him, but of whose nature he is ignorant. While in this state, all he can say about his emotion is, “I feel…I don’t know how I feel”. From this helpless and oppressed condition he extricates himself by doing something which we call expressing himself. This is an activity which has something to do with the thing we call language: he expresses himself by speaking. It also has something to do with consciousness; the emotion expressed is the emotion of whose nature the person who feels it is no longer conscious.”
- The Principles of Art, by R.G. Collingwood (1938)

[since pre-history] “Do we see calm rational people whose beliefs about value are for the most part well based and sound? No. We see people rushing frantically about after money, after fame, after gastronomic luxuries, after passionate love, people convinced by the culture itself, by the stories on which they are brought up…a sick society, a society that values money and luxury above the health of the soul” - The Therapy of Desire, Martha Nussbaum, 1994.

“When problems have appeared insoluble, when life has seemed to be meaningless, when governments have been powerless, people have sometimes found a way out by changing the subject of their conversation, or the way they talked, or the persons they talked to”. – Conversation, Thomas Zeldin, 1998

How far does Morrissey’s music go in translating notions like these? Internally when the daily frenzy comes to rest, people’s primary cares coalesce. Does his music often contain his own catharses which then become cathartic for many of his listeners because he does some effective interpretative groundwork? His basic lucid humanity is one of his big draws, I feel.

 

[mozzette]

I know it sounds nothing at all like it but it keeps reminding me of Talk Talk's 'Life's what you make it'.
Think it's just the piano though.

 

[Truman Capote]

I agree completely.

I think Santaolalla made the difference on "My Dearest Love." Based on what he said about Morrissey in the interview posted here, he really "gets" him in a big way.

It is a real shame that he will not be involved with the album.

So true, he really did a great job and made them sound more... original.