"Oh Morrissey, you're just like Mrs Thatcher" - Craig Brown, in the Daily Mail

Re: "Oh Morrissey, you're just like Mrs Thatcher" - Craig Browm, in the Daily Mail

I have to disagree with that. I get his point, but I think people tend to easily forget Morrissey, Lennon and others are artists.
The person you are and the artist you are can be very different.
Morrissey built his career and reputation on writing and singing the words for people's darkest times and feelings. That's why people love his songs.
He talks about what he knows, it doesn't mean that's how he feels deep inside.

I understand that because I was born in the North, I grew up on depressing, cold streets where poverty, depression, addictions, violence and anger were common.
I was middle-class and a bit spoiled and went to good schools and even went on holidays every Summer. We weren't rich but we weren't working class.
But I went to school with the working-class kids, I played with them on the streets and even though money wasn't our main issue, we had very similar worries and fears as our working-class friends and neighbours. That's what I know, not necessarily what I am.

My point is it is not because you are considered middle-class that you cannot sing / write / talk about working-class. If you grew up in that environment, you are not lying about it.
So to me, saying Paul should have been the one singing 'Working-class hero' doesn't make any sense. John grew up in Liverpool in the 50's, middle or working class is not relevant, you are in it whether you want it or not and yes, he knew what he was talking about.

As for the article part about Morrissey acting miserable and complaining, again that's not reality, it's his 'character', the one he's known for.
If Morrissey was happily married with kids, living in a pretty surbub with a white picket fence and a labradoodle in the garden and was singing about his perfect life and perfect love and happiness, who would buy his records? I wouldn't.
He is doomed to be that other person. The one who lives in a pigsty of a life. In truth, that's not who he really is.

It's a bit too easy to blame him for being miserable and a bit too easy to blame Lennon for being middle-class.
Do I make any sense?
 

AztecCamera

Well-Known Member
It would of been a nice touch for Morrissey to be invited to sing "Irish Blood, English Heart" at Thatcher's funeral.

Nice comments about the Republic of Ireland you pompus limey redcoat bitch.
 

Johnny Barleycorn

Well-Known Member
its the double standards of the British media, they call nelson Mandela a hero, a freedom fighter, yet they call bobby sands a terrorist, they don't even mention the fact that thatcher called Mandela a terrorist

No double standards here. They were both terrorists.
 

Johnny Barleycorn

Well-Known Member
It would of been a nice touch for Morrissey to be invited to sing "Irish Blood, English Heart" at Thatcher's funeral.

Nice comments about the Republic of Ireland you pompus limey redcoat bitch.

She was very popular here, you know. She won three elections.
 

Johnny Barleycorn

Well-Known Member
Mandela was a terrorist?
Are you sure thats what you mean Johnny?

Technically, yes. He sought to overthrow a legal constituted government, despite that government being a disgusting aberration worth overturning.
 

Johnny Barleycorn

Well-Known Member
Yes. It's what his beloved Mrs. T believed - there was even a "Hang Nelson Mandela" Tory campaign in the 80s, of course.

You're quite good at deciding what other people "really" think, aren't you?

She wasn't "my" Mrs. Thatcher. I didn't vote for her on the one occasion I could, and I have never voted Tory in my life. The thing you seen to have trouble comprehending is that the world isn't as black and white as you'd like to pretend.

“She [Thatcher] is an enemy of apartheid… We have much to thank her for.” - Nelson Mandela, July 1990.

If Mandela thought that, who are you to disagree?

Here is a letter Thatcher wrote to PW Botha. I draw your attention to paragraph 5, section iii, in which she calls for Mandela's release.

http://fc95d419f4478b3b6e5f-3f71d0f...kcdn.com/6D1A4F11C9AD4BD58A3493B01077D862.pdf
 

Johnny Barleycorn

Well-Known Member
Re: "Oh Morrissey, you're just like Mrs Thatcher" - Craig Brown, in the Daily Mail

Oh I know that all right, my point was she never won any votes in scotland, I'm surprised YOU don't know that

It's called democracy. Sometimes you get what you want, and sometimes you don't. Scotland voted for Blair, and helped prop up the disastrous Premiership of Brown.

- - - Updated - - -

Or Wales.

How's that Labour run health service going?
 

Orson Swells

Well-Known Member
You're quite good at deciding what other people "really" think, aren't you?

I've never thought that myself; I thought that was more your thing. But if you say so, thanks.

She wasn't "my" Mrs. Thatcher. I didn't vote for her on the one occasion I could, and I have never voted Tory in my life.

I didn't mean to suggest you were ever an item. Merely that you are united by your 80s-style loathing of Guardian readers and the "loony left".

The thing you seen to have trouble comprehending is that the world isn't as black and white as you'd like to pretend.

You're quite good at deciding what other people "really" think, aren't you?

“She [Thatcher] is an enemy of apartheid… We have much to thank her for.” - Nelson Mandela, July 1990.

If Mandela thought that, who are you to disagree?

Who said I disagreed?

Here is a letter Thatcher wrote to PW Botha. I draw your attention to paragraph 5, section iii, in which she calls for Mandela's release.

http://fc95d419f4478b3b6e5f-3f71d0f...kcdn.com/6D1A4F11C9AD4BD58A3493B01077D862.pdf

Interesting. But she was saying precisely the opposite only the year before; and the inference from the letter is Mandela's release would be a political, rather than humanitarian act, a some might say cynical attempt to improve international relations...
 

J.R.

New Member
Re: "Oh Morrissey, you're just like Mrs Thatcher" - Craig Browm, in the Daily Mail

Completely agree. People change over time, perceptions change.



QUOTE=MadeinSalford;1986808866]I have to disagree with that. I get his point, but I think people tend to easily forget Morrissey, Lennon and others are artists.
The person you are and the artist you are can be very different.
Morrissey built his career and reputation on writing and singing the words for people's darkest times and feelings. That's why people love his songs.
He talks about what he knows, it doesn't mean that's how he feels deep inside.

I understand that because I was born in the North, I grew up on depressing, cold streets where poverty, depression, addictions, violence and anger were common.
I was middle-class and a bit spoiled and went to good schools and even went on holidays every Summer. We weren't rich but we weren't working class.
But I went to school with the working-class kids, I played with them on the streets and even though money wasn't our main issue, we had very similar worries and fears as our working-class friends and neighbours. That's what I know, not necessarily what I am.

My point is it is not because you are considered middle-class that you cannot sing / write / talk about working-class. If you grew up in that environment, you are not lying about it.
So to me, saying Paul should have been the one singing 'Working-class hero' doesn't make any sense. John grew up in Liverpool in the 50's, middle or working class is not relevant, you are in it whether you want it or not and yes, he knew what he was talking about.

As for the article part about Morrissey acting miserable and complaining, again that's not reality, it's his 'character', the one he's known for.
If Morrissey was happily married with kids, living in a pretty surbub with a white picket fence and a labradoodle in the garden and was singing about his perfect life and perfect love and happiness, who would buy his records? I wouldn't.
He is doomed to be that other person. The one who lives in a pigsty of a life. In truth, that's not who he really is.

It's a bit too easy to blame him for being miserable and a bit too easy to blame Lennon for being middle-class.
Do I make any sense?[/QUOTE]
 

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