Podcast: Simon Wolstencroft: "Me, Morrissey, and Mark E Smith" (December 7, 2019)


"Drummer Simon Wolstencroft has a great rock n roll story to tell. He turned down the chance to be in The Smiths; made 11 albums with Mark E Smith and The Fall; and later appeared on Top Of The Pops with his old schoolmate Ian Brown of Stone Roses. Oh yeah, and he hid his heroin addiction from friends and colleagues for 20 years.
(Recorded at Joshua Brooks bar, in Manchester)"


Apple:
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podca...and-mark-e-smith/id1463963883?i=1000458957800

Other sources:
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/adrian-goldbergs-talk-show/e/65853863?autoplay=true


Or MP3 to download:
https://we.tl/t-aUUSgvpyD4

Interesting listen - Morrissey & The Smiths discussed / Johnny and the stolen Lowry!?.

full


Regards,
FWD.
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
sounds like john cooper clark,his voice doesn't go with his face,looks quite a proper chap in his photo.decent listen,smiths is first ten minutes so theres no excuse about wading through.

I think his stories about Mark E. Smith, the Fall and Ian Brown are definitely worth a listen.
 

ACTON

Don't Leave Us In The Dark
The bit about The Fall is far more informative and interesting than the snippet about The Smiths.
 

ForgotHowIGotMyName

Well-Known Member
Simon missed the chance to play in both The Smiths and the Stone Roses. Now, I don’t think the Roses could have made it with anyone other than Reni on drums as he was integral to their sound but The Smiths has to sting as Joyce was a journeyman drummer and the Smiths’ weakest link.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Simon missed the chance to play in both The Smiths and the Stone Roses. Now, I don’t think the Roses could have made it with anyone other than Reni on drums as he was integral to their sound but The Smiths has to sting as Joyce was a journeyman drummer and the Smiths’ weakest link.

Bollocks Bozo you wouldn't know great drumming from your thunderous morning anal rumblings.
 

Mozmar

Well-Known Member
Joyce was a journeyman drummer and the Smiths’ weakest link.

I think that's a reasonable, but maybe too harsh, point, as MJ has stated that, at the time of his joining The Smiths, he wasn't the best drummer around, had limited ability, & improved as he progressed with the band. I have no problem with MJ, but can't help but think the rest of The Smiths were quite generous to him in that regard.

Just one recent fact I've discovered (& have posted elsewhere on this site) he & AR (& Craig Gannon) played on some of Moz's early stuff, including The Bed Took Fire (aka At Amber).

[source http://www.passionsjustlikemine.com/songs/songs-bedtookfire.htm]


Back to SW, I've seen some of his tweets; he does little informative snippets now & again about The Smiths; sort of along the lines of 'this building behind me was where I first met such & such'...all part of the fabric of The Smiths. Interesting.
 
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Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
Simon & Rourke would have made the perfect rhythm section! nodding out on time, they would have been known as the lotus eaters of the Indy music world!

I saw the Lotus Eaters supporting Big Country at Manchester Academy years ago, they were pretty good but a very odd pairing when you consider Big Countries musical style.
 
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Radis Noir

By the thrice-beshitten shroud of Lazarus
So who was the drummer on the first album?...I thought it was MJ?
Drums sampled into an AMS and triggered by a Linn Drum Computer, probably. Certainly John Porter has claimed that there were no live drums on the first album, according to Dave Jackson in this article. And if you listen closely to the drums it doesn't really sound like a drummer.
 

Ketamine Sun

A Most Misunderstood Member
Drums sampled into an AMS and triggered by a Linn Drum Computer, probably. Certainly John Porter has claimed that there were no live drums on the first album, according to Dave Jackson in this article. And if you listen closely to the drums it doesn't really sound like a drummer.

Yeah, always thought the drums sounded strange on that album, especially ‘Reel’ sounds so mechanical. We do know that Street
used a drum loop for the awesome ‘drumming’ on ‘The Queen is Dead’.


Mike Joyce did not play drums on "This Charming Man". The drums were originally programmed on a Linn Drum Computer, by session drummer Peter Boita under the direction of producer John Porter. Peter Boita then sampled a live drum kit, drum by drum, into an AMS digital reverb unit. His Linn Drum programme then triggered out the sampled sounds of the live drum kit from the AMS.”

https://smiths.fandom.com/wiki/This_Charming_Man


And still even after Morrissey & Marr turned a blind eye to Mikes non-abilities on the drums and kept him on, he still turns around and sues them, ungrateful to say the least.
 

NealCassidy

FREE SPEECH
EACH TIME YOU VOTE YOU SUPPORT THE PROCESS
 

Mozmar

Well-Known Member
Drums sampled into an AMS and triggered by a Linn Drum Computer, probably. Certainly John Porter has claimed that there were no live drums on the first album, according to Dave Jackson in this article. And if you listen closely to the drums it doesn't really sound like a drummer.

Yep there seems to be some evidence of that in the Severed Alliance which I think makes reference to remixing the Troy Tapes, & This Charming Man in particular - but not the whole of the first album:

The Matrix version of ‘This Charming Man’ was completed so hastily that the mix fell below par. The ever vigilant Geoff Travis immediately recognized its shortcomings and suggested they recut the song at Manchester’s Strawberry Studios. Using the Matrix original as a demo, the group completed a more focused version, backed by a pre-programmed Linn drum. At the end of the session, Joyce’s drums were overdubbed, and the Linn erased

....& also have discovered that Simon Wolstencroft played on a couple of demo tracks, which I either wasn't aware of, or I'd forgotten about:

In August 1982, Johnny Marr and Steven Patrick Morrissey went into Manchester’s Decibelle Studios to record the first two songs they’d written together, “The Hand that Rocks the Cradle” and “Suffer Little Children,” both of which would appear on The Smiths’ debut two years later.

They were aided by Dale Hibbert, a recording engineer who worked at Decibelle — often misspelled as Decibel — and briefly played bass in The Smiths, including on the “Hand that Rocks the Cradle” recorded that day (though not on “Suffer Little Children,” according to Simon Goddard’s definitive “Songs That Saved Your Life: The Art of The Smiths 1982-87”). The drummer on the session was Simon Wolstencroft.

http://www.slicingupeyeballs.com/2019/01/01/smiths-decibelle-studios-demo/
 

Mozmar

Well-Known Member
Some nice thoughts & insights here from MJ on that first album. Makes me wonder if he only played on Hand In Glove...jury still out..he doesn't mention production or drum machines, but maybe it's only natural that he wouldn't.

 

Ketamine Sun

A Most Misunderstood Member
Yep there seems to be some evidence of that in the Severed Alliance which I think makes reference to remixing the Troy Tapes, & This Charming Man in particular - but not the whole of the first album:

The Matrix version of ‘This Charming Man’ was completed so hastily that the mix fell below par. The ever vigilant Geoff Travis immediately recognized its shortcomings and suggested they recut the song at Manchester’s Strawberry Studios. Using the Matrix original as a demo, the group completed a more focused version, backed by a pre-programmed Linn drum. At the end of the session, Joyce’s drums were overdubbed, and the Linn erased

....& also have discovered that Simon Wolstencroft played on a couple of demo tracks, which I either wasn't aware of, or I'd forgotten about:

In August 1982, Johnny Marr and Steven Patrick Morrissey went into Manchester’s Decibelle Studios to record the first two songs they’d written together, “The Hand that Rocks the Cradle” and “Suffer Little Children,” both of which would appear on The Smiths’ debut two years later.

They were aided by Dale Hibbert, a recording engineer who worked at Decibelle — often misspelled as Decibel — and briefly played bass in The Smiths, including on the “Hand that Rocks the Cradle” recorded that day (though not on “Suffer Little Children,” according to Simon Goddard’s definitive “Songs That Saved Your Life: The Art of The Smiths 1982-87”). The drummer on the session was Simon Wolstencroft.

http://www.slicingupeyeballs.com/2019/01/01/smiths-decibelle-studios-demo/

Should take Severed Alliance with a grain (or more) of salt.
 

Mozmar

Well-Known Member
Should take Severed Alliance with a grain (or more) of salt.

I agree, & it's a fair point, but sometimes we're restricted to source material & I don't have enough time, or the inclination, to be researching previous research, et al.

...there's more to life than books you know, but not much more, not much more.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Yeah, always thought the drums sounded strange on that album, especially ‘Reel’ sounds so mechanical. We do know that Street
used a drum loop for the awesome ‘drumming’ on ‘The Queen is Dead’.


Mike Joyce did not play drums on "This Charming Man". The drums were originally programmed on a Linn Drum Computer, by session drummer Peter Boita under the direction of producer John Porter. Peter Boita then sampled a live drum kit, drum by drum, into an AMS digital reverb unit. His Linn Drum programme then triggered out the sampled sounds of the live drum kit from the AMS.”

https://smiths.fandom.com/wiki/This_Charming_Man


And still even after Morrissey & Marr turned a blind eye to Mikes non-abilities on the drums and kept him on, he still turns around and sues them, ungrateful to say the least.

I'm going to defend him on that - there should have been a written contract or a letter of agreement, otherwise it's fair to assume or demand an even split.
 

Ketamine Sun

A Most Misunderstood Member
Reminds me of the memory of Snape in the last Potter episode, where it's revealed Snape has carried a torch for Harry's mother..."after all these years?" "Yes"

He never, ever got over not being in The Smiths and talks about Heroin as a way of coping with that disappointment even all the time he was in The Fall. You can hear it in his voice.

Guess heroin makes one do strange things, I mean him using the excuse of not being in The Smiths as a reason to why he was using the drug, because, he was addicted to heroin before The Smiths even started.
 
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M

Musician

Guest
Jeeez, and this is a Morrissey fan site in theory.

Mike Joyce DID play on the first Smiths album of course. The quote about This Charming Man is the session version, found on ''Hatful of Hollow'', not the single version.
 

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