SER denies driving car, names officer in FB comments; Morrissey quoted in Metro.co.uk article

Update: Sam has just written in his facebook page (comment in the photo post) it was not him driving the car and he was not in italy at the moment. What the hell?

This is getting more and more ridiculous.


Links posted anonymously:

Sam Esty Rayner Photography Facebook comment (July 7):
The Italian newspapers state, on behalf of Roma Polizia, that the driver of the car was Sam Esty Rayner.

Sam was not the driver; was not in the car; was not in Italy on the date of the incident.

Also earlier:

Sam Esty Rayner Photography Facebook comment (July 5):
The police officer who attacked Morrissey at 7.45 pm on July 4th in Rome, Italy, is named Barone Raffaele.




Link posted by an anonymous person:

Morrissey claims he was ‘terrorised by police officer who drew his gun’ - Metro.co.uk

Excerpt:

The state police website claimed Morrissey had an attitude from the outset and was astonished he had not been recognised.

It added police were eventually able to identify him after making further inquiries.

Morrissey told Metro.co.uk: ‘Yes, I had an attitude – of someone being provoked. I do not expect anyone anywhere to know who I am. If this is all the police can say in their defence, then you must draw your own conclusions.

‘If this can happen to me on a busy, daylight street in Roma, then Italy places itself right up there with Syria in terms of moral stability.

‘With armed psychopaths free on the streets of Roma, then incoming migrants will soon be storming Italian borders to get back to Libya.

‘Italy’s ranking as 126th most dangerous country in the world has now shifted to number 1.’


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Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
right? those crazy fans! I'm glad I was never one ! :paranoid: ;) :lbf:

Me neither. (Hiding the tattoo on his arm, it is such a shame to be a Moz fan today, where there was once a time I was so proud to show it of :oops:)
Should I remove it? :eek:
No, I will go down with him.
The pleasure, the priviledge etcetera, etcetera.:D
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
At least Boz has an alibi.

Well, with a bit of fantasy there is still time to make one up after the "event" happened.
As Sam denied being there at the time and there is no prove he was, how about Moz denying he was there? No prove, no papers, no footage, and saying I know nothing?
All these supposed statements could be from imposters. :D
 
R

Roger O

Guest
So this is the legacy of the Smiths. Sad. I would rather hear about Mike Joyce pushing a stroller and giving change to a busker. Whats Andy up to. Moz is a girley douche.
 

12" on the slack

team baklava
In the USA, the police never ask for the ID of the passenger and if driver didn't produce ID, they would just ask their name and look them up on their laptop in cruiser. Driver would get a hefty ticket for no ID. Passenger is not suspected of anything so no search required. But that is the rights we have. Sounds like the law in Italy is messed up and if I had an expensive lawyer like Moz I would tell him to go suck it too.

What is wrong with Europeans? It's like you hand your ass over to the police.

I kind of agree with this.

The naming and shaming of the police officer was not very good, and the Syria comment was so over the top one cannot but laugh, but I’m willing to give Morrissey the benefit of a doubt about the cop. Having lived in Austria and Germany and having spent plenty of time in Italy as well I noticed that policemen (and government employees as well as people in uniforms generally) often have a very unpleasant attitude and a bit of a God complex. Even the ticket inspector on the train can treat you like shit for no reason, and if you tell him to tone it down a bit he’ll threaten you with jail, no joke. And everyone obeys, has a weird respect for authority and people in uniforms. I’m not saying all policemen in central Europe are cunts, and the guy in Rome may well be the nicest person ever, but it’s just something I have noticed. I dread going through security at Munich airport because the staff (and the people with machine guns standing next to them) are just so unnecessarily unpleasant and treat you like a criminal simply because they can.
 

Cornflakes

"A bit iffy" ★★☆☆☆ - AV Club
In the USA, the police never ask for the ID of the passenger and if driver didn't produce ID, they would just ask their name and look them up on their laptop in cruiser. Driver would get a hefty ticket for no ID. Passenger is not suspected of anything so no search required. But that is the rights we have. Sounds like the law in Italy is messed up and if I had an expensive lawyer like Moz I would tell him to go suck it too.

What is wrong with Europeans? It's like you hand your ass over to the police.

There's plenty of differences between the US and Italy. For arguments sake, let's say the US is superior in every respect. Even so, this is isn't the copper's fault. He was just doing his job according to the local rules.

In any event, it's not anything that Morrissey did at the scene that makes him a twat. After all, we don't really have a 100% reliable account of what happened. What makes Morrissey a twat (Sam too, for cooperating) is making himself out to be Nelson Mandela on social media, giving a bullshit account of what happened and trying the threaten the copper's personal safety by publishing his name and photo.
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><>
There's plenty of differences between the US and Italy. For arguments sake, let's say the US is superior in every respect. Even so, this is isn't the copper's fault. He was just doing his job according to the local rules.

In any event, it's not anything that Morrissey did at the scene that makes him a twat. After all, we don't really have a 100% reliable account of what happened. What makes Morrissey a twat (Sam too, for cooperating) is making himself out to be Nelson Mandela on social media, giving a bullshit account of what happened and trying the threaten the copper's personal safety by publishing his name and photo.



'Even so, this is isn't the copper's fault. He was just doing his job according to the local rules'

And maybe the cop would say something like this....
I was just following orders, should I think for myself? and make the judgment that maybe the tourist I was questioning was a little freaked out by the way I was questioning him? and I don't think he liked it as I was holding my gun with the intent to shoot him, it's not my fault ! this is what we're trained to do! It's like that all over, isn't it? Shoot first ask questions later?

Of course he didn't shoot, but just by having ones hand on the gun is threat and intent enough, abuse of power anyone? This I believe is the whole point of the matter.

My take, besides the traffic violation in which of course they should be pulled over, is that this cop after finding out M's identity was on a bit of a power trip and wanted to see the visiting celebrity squirm under his authority. Cops in my personal and observational experience, get a kick out of doing this. I'm sure it's one of the reasons they choose to become cops. Not saying all cops are bad(or are they?), though it must take a certain kind of character and mentality to even want to do that kind of job in the first place, and I'm sure the training ( just like in the military) does a number on ones head.

'out to be Nelson Mandela on social media'

Well, he seems to be not only concerned with his own life, but with the life of others, pointing out that this cop might be dangerous and might kill you. If one has a platform I think it's good to make this known for the safety of all. Someones gotta do it. And are the Italians scared to do this? is it really illegal to post filmed questionable interactions between police and civilians?


'trying the threaten the copper's personal safety by publishing his name and photo'

or make people aware of the injustice of this cop and the way he threatened his life, and to make it known that this cop is a safety hazard for the civilians and visitors there.


.
 

Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting


'Even so, this is isn't the copper's fault. He was just doing his job according to the local rules'

And maybe the cop would say something like this....

I was just following orders, should I think for myself? and make the judgment that maybe the tourist I was questioning was a little freaked out by the way I was questioning him? and I don't think he liked it as I was holding my gun with the intent to shoot him, it's not my fault ! this is what we're trained to do! It's like that all over, isn't it? Shoot first ask questions later?

Of course he didn't shoot, but just by having ones hand on the gun is threat and intent enough, abuse of power anyone? This I believe is the whole point of the matter.

My take, besides the traffic violation in which of course they should be pulled over, is that this cop after finding out M's identity was on a bit of a power trip and wanted to see the visiting celebrity squirm under his authority. Cops in my personal and observational experience, get a kick out of doing this. I'm sure it's one of the reasons they choose to become cops. Not saying all cops are bad(or are they?), though it must take a certain kind of character and mentality to even want to do that kind of job in the first place, and I'm sure the training ( just like in the military) does a number on ones head.

'out to be Nelson Mandela on social media'

Well, he seems to be not only concerned with his own life, but with the life of others, pointing out that this cop might be dangerous and might kill you. If one has a platform I think it's good to make this known for the safety of all. Someones gotta do it. And are the Italians scared to do this? is it really illegal to post filmed questionable interactions between police and civilians?


'trying the threaten the copper's personal safety by publishing his name and photo'

or make people aware of the injustice of this cop and the way he threatened his life, and to make it known that this cop is a safety hazard for the civilians and visitors there.


.

Crikey, you really do have idolisation issues.
 

countthree

Well-Known Member
There's plenty of differences between the US and Italy. For arguments sake, let's say the US is superior in every respect. Even so, this is isn't the copper's fault. He was just doing his job according to the local rules.

In any event, it's not anything that Morrissey did at the scene that makes him a twat. After all, we don't really have a 100% reliable account of what happened. What makes Morrissey a twat (Sam too, for cooperating) is making himself out to be Nelson Mandela on social media, giving a bullshit account of what happened and trying the threaten the copper's personal safety by publishing his name and photo.

I don't understand the way of reasoning that concludes a photo published a day after the facts is more threatening than being held half an hour with a gun by a policeman when you didn't commit any crime.
 

Cornflakes

"A bit iffy" ★★☆☆☆ - AV Club
I don't understand the way of reasoning that concludes a photo published a day after the facts is more threatening than being held half an hour with a gun by a policeman when you didn't commit any crime.

Who, apart from you, has made this comparison?

Morrissey refused to comply with a request for ID. The officer had cause, and so Morrissey was in the same position anyone else would have been. The officer was not going to let him go without establishing his identity. And even Morrissey doesn't claim to have been held with a gun (he tries to give this impression, but read what he says carefully).

But it isn't the rights or wrongs of what happened at the scene that bother me. It's Morrissey's ridiculous behaviour afterwards.
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><>
Crikey, you really do have idolisation issues.

Nah, but you seem to have issues with people who have a view and opinion different than yours. If you want to stay on topic and reply accordingly, then I'll be glad to have a civil exchange of dialogue with you, rather than having to respond to your attack on me.

I feel if you went deeper than your surface, you just might find something interesting to say, but no ones holding their breath for that here.


:tiphat:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The comments from angry Italians under the photo on Sam's photo Facebook page are GOLDEN! I thought that I was going to have a really boring, lazy Sunday, but I have been entertained for like 2+ hours now! All of this gets more and more surreal every day. You can't make this shit up.
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><>
Who, apart from you, has made this comparison?

Morrissey refused to comply with a request for ID. The officer had cause, and so Morrissey was in the same position anyone else would have been. The officer was not going to let him go without establishing his identity. And even Morrissey doesn't claim to have been held with a gun (he tries to give this impression, but read what he says carefully).

But it isn't the rights or wrongs of what happened at the scene that bother me. It's Morrissey's ridiculous behaviour afterwards.


'Morrissey refused to comply with a request for ID'

is that reason enough to threaten anyone with a gun ? just having a hand on the gun shows intent to kill.

'The officer had cause,' ? o_O

'The officer was not going to let him go without establishing his identity.'

The driver established his identity and the cop through google established his identity, how long it took to do this? and how long after establishing his identity did the cop continue to hold him is something we don't know yet.

'And even Morrissey doesn't claim to have been held with a gun (he tries to give this impression, but read what he says carefully).'


'Morrissey replied: "I know the law, I know my rights, and you have no reason to stop me." The Officer shouted very loudly and a crowd of over 100 people gathered. The Officer held his gun throughout the confrontation. After 35 minutes, Morrissey walked away, and the Officer did not follow.
Morrissey says: "This was a deliberate act of terror by this Officer, who had no personal identification, but whose Polizia 113 motor-bike had the plate G2458. I had not broken the law or acted suspiciously. The officer unlocked his gun and held it as he screamed into my face. Some people came to my rescue. This happened outside the Nike store, and many people filmed the obviously insane officer. I believe he recognized me and wanted to frighten me. I did not back down even though I believed he was about to shoot me. I urge people to beware of this dangerously aggressive Officer. He might kill you."


But it isn't the rights or wrongs of what happened at the scene that bother me. It's Morrissey's ridiculous behaviour afterwards.

I guess it's easier to attack the latter. Though I find it sad that you care more about, his, as you say 'ridiculous behaviour' and not concerned at all about the life of a human being and the safety of other human beings. Strange really.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Who, apart from you, has made this comparison?

Morrissey refused to comply with a request for ID. The officer had cause, and so Morrissey was in the same position anyone else would have been. The officer was not going to let him go without establishing his identity. And even Morrissey doesn't claim to have been held with a gun (he tries to give this impression, but read what he says carefully).

But it isn't the rights or wrongs of what happened at the scene that bother me. It's Morrissey's ridiculous behaviour afterwards.

If an officer yelled in my face or was hostile to me while doin there job then I might be mad enough to post a pic and an angry comment about it. It's not like he posted just because he doesn't agree with the law asking for Id. It seems to be more about how the officer handle himself and there interaction
 

Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
'Morrissey refused to comply with a request for ID'

is that reason enough to threaten anyone with a gun ? just having a hand on the gun shows intent to kill.

'The officer had cause,' ? o_O

'The officer was not going to let him go without establishing his identity.'

The driver established his identity and the cop through google established his identity, how long it took to do this? and how long after establishing his identity did the cop continue to hold him is something we don't know yet.

'And even Morrissey doesn't claim to have been held with a gun (he tries to give this impression, but read what he says carefully).'


'Morrissey replied: "I know the law, I know my rights, and you have no reason to stop me." The Officer shouted very loudly and a crowd of over 100 people gathered. The Officer held his gun throughout the confrontation. After 35 minutes, Morrissey walked away, and the Officer did not follow.
Morrissey says: "This was a deliberate act of terror by this Officer, who had no personal identification, but whose Polizia 113 motor-bike had the plate G2458. I had not broken the law or acted suspiciously. The officer unlocked his gun and held it as he screamed into my face. Some people came to my rescue. This happened outside the Nike store, and many people filmed the obviously insane officer. I believe he recognized me and wanted to frighten me. I did not back down even though I believed he was about to shoot me. I urge people to beware of this dangerously aggressive Officer. He might kill you."


But it isn't the rights or wrongs of what happened at the scene that bother me. It's Morrissey's ridiculous behaviour afterwards.

I guess it's easier to attack the latter. Though I find it sad that you care more about, his, as you say 'ridiculous behaviour' and not concerned at all about the life of a human being and the safety of other human beings. Strange really.

Where is the evidence to support either Morrissey's or the police mans claims - there were over a 100 people there apparently, yet not one picture anywhere in the world, don't you think thats a bit odd? Or could it be that he is trying to generate publicity ahead of the album he is supposedly recording?
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><>
Where is the evidence to support either Morrissey's or the police mans claims - there were over a 100 people there apparently, yet not one picture anywhere in the world, don't you think thats a bit odd? Or could it be that he is trying to generate publicity ahead of the album he is supposedly recording?

'yet not one picture anywhere in the world, don't you think thats a bit odd?'

extremely odd.

'Or could it be that he is trying to generate publicity ahead of the album he is supposedly recording?'

publicity stunt?, and the Italian police dept. is helping him promote his new album by both making up the whole story? Wow, I hope so ! :D

'album he is supposedly recording?'

supposedly it's already finished, if you trust the recent post below.

https://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/apparently-they-finished-recording.140345/#post-1987012549
 

Cornflakes

"A bit iffy" ★★☆☆☆ - AV Club
is that reason enough to threaten anyone with a gun ? just having a hand on the gun shows intent to kill.

No, it really doesn't, and the idea that the officer intended to kill Morrissey is just clearly absurd. According to Morrissey, the guy spent 30 mins with his hand permanently glued to the handle of his gun as if he were about to draw it. This doesn't ring true. The officer would have looked ridiculous, and if he'd have wanted to draw Morrissey's attention to the fact that he was armed there are plenty of less weird ways he could have done it.

On the other hand, it's believable that a police officer would raise their voice if someone is refusing to co-operate with them. The only reason to doubt this is that Morrissey has said it. But, you know what? If having a police officer shout at you causes you to fear for your life, don't start an argument with a police officer.

The driver established his identity and the cop through google established his identity, how long it took to do this? and how long after establishing his identity did the cop continue to hold him is something we don't know yet.

We can easily work out how long it was from the fact that Morrissey doesn't mention how long it was.
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
Maybe Morrissey liked Italy so much he became a citizen and he could have been working undercover with immigration. When that cop stopped him it blew his cover.

No, it's exactly like that.

That's not the only thing that was blown
 
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