"Smith vs. Smith: Reading the Morrissey and Marr Memoirs" by Simon Goddard - Pitchfork

Autobiography is wonderful, and it's just nice to hear someone being complimentary about Morrissey's writing again, after the List of the Lost fiasco! That said, Marr's book is much more straight forward and 'readable'. I enjoyed both but if any casual fans of The Smiths asked me for recommendations between the two I'd have to go with Set the Boy Free. If you weren't already an enormous Moz fan would you be arsed reading autobiography? The first paragraph is about four and a half pages long.

(I love autobiography don't @ me as the kids say on Twitter).
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked up Johnny's description of anything positive as a straight forward blunt "it was good." I lost count of how many times he said that.

I enjoyed Johnny's book but less so because it was amazingly written or amazingly recorded (listening to Johnny for 9hrs is tough), but I think just because of the content itself. It's The Smiths, I like The Smiths. It's Modest Mouse, I like Modest Mouse etc. His read like less of a book that showed off his personality and more just of a blow by blow account of how things happened, some in more detail than others. It was more like Johnny just made an extended blog post than a book. But what I found refreshing was that it avoided the "poor me" aspect. Which you expect from Morrissey, but just from books in general. There seems to be this idea that a famous person's life has to be full of tragedy to overcome and any sad bits there are get blown into the biggest thing and "will our hero overcome the odds??" when really, it's not that bad or interesting. Morrissey I guess was different as you expect it as part of his personality. He pokes fun at it and turns it into an art form. But I'm glad Marr avoided that. He was just a dude with a pretty great upbringing, all things considered. It was good.

I loved Autobiograph up until the court case and then it just became painful. It just went on and on and on. That ability to be tongue in cheek about depression and serious bad things but also about trivial bad things was suddenly gone. The court case section just came across as whinging and sour grapes. After that was done the latter part of his solo career just seemed to be wrapped up so quickly. "Oh shit we spent 8439 pages on the court case, no room left, better wrap it up!" It was full of these little teases of things where you were left thinking "hang on I want to hear more about that!" Before he moved on. They were the sorts of tidbits you'd expect to hear outside of the book and then would have to read the whole book to get the whole story. So that let the latter part down for me.
Up until the court case though I loved it. It was poetic and beautifully written. You never really knew what tangent would be next..oh ok, a 4 page critique of Lost in Space now? It was unique in that way and also very Morrissey in the sense that while you read all this stuff, you still don't really learn all that much about him. Only he could write a book about himself without revealing all that much.

Then there is List of the Lost. What an absolute steaming pile of shit. Cannot defend. It's a shame that his novel writing was so poor because the way he wrote about childhood, school, even the "ghost" encounter in Autobiography all sounded like it could have been lifted from a fictional character's POV in a novel. Shame list of the lost didn't carry that over.
 
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I put down Johnny's book when he says, after the Smiths broke up, he 'had no appetite' to talk about it to the press so didn't. He makes this remark quite pointedly, as if it was superior of him.

I have an NME from not long after the Smiths breakup where he airs his side as a comeback, it's also well documented online and in Rogan's book. He absolutely, completely, did talk about it to the press.

Morrissey's book is laughable in places, but I left Johnny's being sour on what the truth is.

He says he didn't speak to the press. Yet he did.

It's as simple as that. And it made the ending of the Smiths even muddier.

Johnny seems happy to setup, but not outright say, that Morrissey was what forced him out of the Smiths.

I believe Morrissey when he says he isn't any the wiser.

I would like to know why Morrissey wouldn't open the door to Johnny Marr. Depression, inability to face up to things, being cavalier, what?

What they both leave out is bigger than what either of them reveal.
 
Re: Johnny speaking to the nme after the Smiths split, which he denies in his book

It's online. Why go back on his word?

http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~moz/quotes/split.htm

Some of the mysteries surrounding the break-up of Britain's biggest (still) independent band were, however, cleared up when Marr himself rang NME to put his side of the case.
"First of all," he said, "it's very important to me to clear up some of the inaccuracies that were in your story last week. There is nothing even approaching 'acrimony' between myself and the other members of the band. I've known them all a long time and I love 'em. Nor was there any truth in the idea that Morrissey has any problem with the company I keep, personally or work-wise; we're very different people and lead different kinds of lives but that stuff is just patently untrue. And lastly, the stuff about me using record company funds to pay for a trip to America is totally wrong."
Why, then, the split?
"I'm not denying that there weren't certain problems involving the band, and it's also very true that a group like The Smiths can begin to take over your whole life and all your energy. That's certainly happened to me, but the major reason for me going was simply that there are things I want to do, musically, that there is just not scope for in The Smiths."
The infamous "musical differences"?
"I've got absolutely no problem with what The Smiths are doing. The stuff we've just done for the new album is great, the best we've ever done. I'm really proud of it. But there are things that I want to do that can only happen outside of The Smiths."
One potential source of acrimony yet to emerge from the split is the use of the name "The Smiths". Marr was genuinely surprised when informed that Morrissey intended to continue using it, but contented himself, when pressed for a response, with "I think that's probably tied up in a whole load of legal things..."
Although understandably uncertain about his immediate plans, Marr intends getting back into public view as soon as possible.
"I've already recorded some stuff and it's gone really well. If the rest of it goes as well, there's every chance that I'll be forming a permanent group, though obviously it's a little early to be too certain about that. But I definitely want to have some live dates set up by the new year at the latest, regardless of the situation with other musicians.
"Part of the reason I've spent so much time in America recently is to get exposed to some different music. The stuff in this country at the moment has got me baffled; I can't find much in any of it. but it's a pleasure listening to new ideas and trying to use them. I've not been unhappy with the things I've done up to now - far from it - so don't expect me to explode off into some crazy new direction, but there will be some changes..."
Any further thoughts on the parting of the ways?
"I don't want to get too over-emotional about this but I really am massively proud of all the things that The Smiths have done and achieved and so from that point of view, of course, it's all really sad, especially for the group's fans who've always been brilliant. But on the other hand, I'm looking forward to doing new things, and to hearing what Morrissey will come up with. I think the change will actually do him a lot of good. I certainly hope so. But, in the final analysis, the thing that used to make me happy was making me miserable and so I just had to get out."
"But I never, ever, wanted to turn The Smiths into The Rolling Stones. That was just more lazy journalistic bullshit..."
 
I loved Autobiograph up until the court case and then it just became painful... After that was done the latter part of his solo career just seemed to be wrapped up so quickly. "Oh shit we spent 8439 pages on the court case, no room left, better wrap it up!" It was full of these little teases of things where you were left thinking "hang on I want to hear more about that!" Before he moved on. They were the sorts of tidbits you'd expect to hear outside of the book and then would have to read the whole book to get the whole story.

I agree - the latter stages of 'Autobiography' are basically just tour anecdotes, and various people he happens to meet, and is disappointingly threadbare. Much as with Johnny on the Smiths, when it comes to Morrissey's solo career I'd love to read an account by someone like Alain or Boz - even if it wasn't poetically written I expect we'd get more insight - hell, any insight - into how those solo albums were created.
 
Chrissie Hynde on Johnny Marr and the Pretenders:

"Well did a bit of touring and stuff but Johnny had his own thing going on and I felt like he started jerking me about a little bit. I was totally burnt out from touring and he was raring to go. The chemistry was already a bit wonky and he was also playing on the side with The The so he'd come in off his face from the night before, pretending that he'd just arrived and was bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. So the whole thing went down fast."

Morrissey on Johnny Marr and the Pretenders:

"Johnny quickly joins the Pretenders, and he just as quickly is ‘asked to leave’. Chrissie Hynde explains to me that Johnny’s perpetual lateness made progress impossible."
 
Morrissey was the Smiths! Anyone who understands music knows this.
He wrote all the music and everything. Johnny Marr is lying when he says he wrote anything but Money Changes Everything. That's why he was allowed to donate it to Bryan Ferry. The Right Stuff indeed.


 
Morrissey had a good deal to do with the smiths general popular appeal. Most people listen to pop music for the vocal top line, he was the person who gave the band and its music most of its image and character through his look lyrics and style . When a lot of fans quote why they love the smiths you hear how they relate to the songs words and chapters dress like him and take up his influences. You rarely hear them say because of a guitar line. A little sad Imo but true. This isn't to say that the music doesn't make all of this easier for him and doesn't inform the mood of what he does but most smiths fans were there for morrissey more than anything else
 
Morrissey had a good deal to do with the smiths general popular appeal. Most people listen to pop music for the vocal top line, he was the person who gave the band and its music most of its image and character through his look lyrics and style . When a lot of fans quote why they love the smiths you hear how they relate to the songs words and chapters dress like him and take up his influences. You rarely hear them say because of a guitar line. A little sad Imo but true. This isn't to say that the music doesn't make all of this easier for him and doesn't inform the mood of what he does but most smiths fans were there for morrissey more than anything else

Might just be the circles I move in but I easily hear the guitar work lauded as much as Morrissey.

I even know people who say the Smiths would be better if not for Moz (they're on crack I think)

I think Morrissey was born to sing, and Johnny was a necessary stepping stone, but they were equals. In the long run, Morrissey wins. Johnny doesn't have a Vauxhall and I. Johnny doesn't even have a Ringleader of the Tormentors.

I feel most sorry for Andy - he came up with (Wrote) those basslines.

I've never liked the Smiths drumming. If you look into their recording history a drum machine saved Joyce's arse several times...

Besides, most of the Smiths songs were about Morrissey's homosexual longing for Johnny, so it's impossible to have the band without both.
 
Might just be the circles I move in but I easily hear the guitar work lauded as much as Morrissey.

I even know people who say the Smiths would be better if not for Moz (they're on crack I think)

I think Morrissey was born to sing, and Johnny was a necessary stepping stone, but they were equals. In the long run, Morrissey wins. Johnny doesn't have a Vauxhall and I. Johnny doesn't even have a Ringleader of the Tormentors.

I feel most sorry for Andy - he came up with (Wrote) those basslines.

I've never liked the Smiths drumming. If you look into their recording history a drum machine saved Joyce's arse several times...

Besides, most of the Smiths songs were about Morrissey's homosexual longing for Johnny, so it's impossible to have the band without both.

Could be and not saying people don't applaud the guitar work but I don't hear much about it other than he's great while they then go on about morrisseys contribution. Even just going to YouTube you see way more comments about the lyrics and the character of the music I.e the images the sense of kinship with lonely outsiders etc. most of the people I hear personally go on about marr are those who are musicians and or are people really really into music. I don't think these types make up the general smiths fan though. When you see a person dressed smiths like it's always based on morrissey and never johnny. I'm not putting him down at all and imo the music he made made is to me like magic and morrissey was lucky to have him but in terms of the general popular appeal morrissey I believe mattered more overall which i think is why he has a viva arsenal vauxhal quarry despite not having his fabulous talent anymore. In the end, despite the fantastic music that I've never heard really replicated (that other worldly magic guitar and bass) anywhere else, the general popular appeal of and enduring legacy of the smiths will be and is defined by morrissey. I've also never heard anyone say the smiths would be good without morrissey. I hear now and then older fans say this story, that there friends like the smiths but hate morrisseys singing, but from my experience this feeling didn't last as I've never heard anyone say this or seen it said outside of an old article or old fan
 
Besides, most of the Smiths songs were about Morrissey's homosexual longing for Johnny, so it's impossible to have the band without both.


Since 'most' of the songs aren't about his longing for anybody, I refute this claim. And when did Morrissey say he had written songs about his longing for Johnny?
 
Besides, most of the Smiths songs were about Morrissey's homosexual longing for Johnny, so it's impossible to have the band without both.

Whhhhooooaaaaaaa

what
 
Since 'most' of the songs aren't about his longing for anybody, I refute this claim. And when did Morrissey say he had written songs about his longing for Johnny?

Well, clearly they're not all along those lines, but I Won't Share You and Forgive Someone pretty much are, I'd suggest.
 
Well, clearly they're not all along those lines, but I Won't Share You and Forgive Someone pretty much are, I'd suggest.

Let me see. The last video of the Smiths before the break up was due to be shot in Battersea. In Autobiography Moz tells a story about Johnny calling someone Fatty. Oh my God! You're The One For Me Fatty is actually about Johnny Marr. After all there really was hope and then despair all over Battersea on that fateful day. What was Cathal Smyth thinking to tell everyone that the song is about him.
 
Since 'most' of the songs aren't about his longing for anybody, I refute this claim.

Hand in Glove
Handsome Devil (who will swallow whom? In your scholarly room... Johnny is younger than moz and was closer to school age).
How Soon is Now is obviously about hitting gay clubs wishing he was with Johnny
Miserable Lie is about disappointment by Johnny claiming to be straight
Wonderful Woman - what's to be done with her (angie)?
Started Something - obvious
There Is a Light - Johnny the notoriously bad driver, Moz couldn't drive
Girlfriend in a Coma - More Angie jealousy
Rubber Ring - condom used in gay sex
I know It's Over - sadness at Johnny's wedding
Boy with the Thorn - fairly obvious
Ask - about wanting Johnny to chase him for a change
Shoplifters - listed crime is promoting homosexuality
Some girls - sarcasm from a gay viewpoint about Angie, jealously
Still Ill - sore lips from who I wonder
Well I Wonder - sadness at being spurned for Angie
Last Night I dreamt - Johnny
Nowhere Fast - slates Johnny and Angie
 
Wow, I was skeptical at first but that's actually pretty convincing.

You haven't mentioned "I want the one I can't have" - surely that one's obvious?

Really puts the Smiths in a brand new light. I don't think "every" song is about Johnny but you might be right with a good selection of them!

- Sami P
 
Hand in Glove
Handsome Devil (who will swallow whom? In your scholarly room... Johnny is younger than moz and was closer to school age).
How Soon is Now is obviously about hitting gay clubs wishing he was with Johnny
Miserable Lie is about disappointment by Johnny claiming to be straight
Wonderful Woman - what's to be done with her (angie)?
Started Something - obvious
There Is a Light - Johnny the notoriously bad driver, Moz couldn't drive
Girlfriend in a Coma - More Angie jealousy
Rubber Ring - condom used in gay sex
I know It's Over - sadness at Johnny's wedding
Boy with the Thorn - fairly obvious
Ask - about wanting Johnny to chase him for a change
Shoplifters - listed crime is promoting homosexuality
Some girls - sarcasm from a gay viewpoint about Angie, jealously
Still Ill - sore lips from who I wonder
Well I Wonder - sadness at being spurned for Angie
Last Night I dreamt - Johnny
Nowhere Fast - slates Johnny and Angie

I think some of these are reaches mate
But you have opened my eyes. I knew Morrissey was gay but the Smiths really rammed it down our throats (so to speak!)
Think I prefer his solo career just because it's not as sleazy

No wonder Johnny left when you think about it - he must have been freaked out!
 

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