Southpaw Grammar/Maladjusted reissues

TheWarmth

New Member
Apologies if this has already been answered, but does anyone know if the Southpaw Grammer reissue will be available on vinyl?
 

Infatuation

New Member
Sadly, I would liken this last effort to a "Pink" album. I can no longer see how Morrissey can legitimately defame other "pop stars" for their failure to show intelligence. YOR is a very accessible record, IMO his most. It might open a large new audience to him. For me, it's nearly bereft of any new lyrical ideas and anything touching on the familiar has been done better by Morrissey in the past. What, he throws in a flamenco guitar track and all sins are forgiven?

All this talk of a "genius" album is laughable. If YOR is genius, what are "The Queen is Dead," "Vauxhall & I," or "Your Aresenal?" equally genius? Please. Enough with slapping a genius label on everything this man does. It's a middling album which shows a worrying trend that perhaps Morrissey doesn't have much to say anymore (and yes the same things were said after Southpaw which is why he nearly lost his career and did lose seven years of his life in Los Angeles).

I hope the album charts #1, and I hope Morrissey gets the commercial and critical success he so richly deserves; however I believe it would be utterly ironic if it came from this album when he's created so many wonderful (and sadly overlooked) records in the past.

I think from your post you have proved my point. You fail to mention anything of the music, just condemn and say that this is why he nearly 'lost his career for seven years' Anyone would realise that the reason for his 'loss of seven years' is because Morrissey became intensely unpopular with the press and the public (other than the fanatic Morrissey fans)
I find it very funny that people like you believe Maladjusted is a weak album, and that his return was a complete triumph when You are the Quarry is very similar.

So if your vocabulary can strain to give a reply of something that contains at least a plausible argument, instead of crying 'Morrissey's best days were The Smiths and Vauxhall years'

Refer back to my first post. Yes YOR is a brilliant album, and compared to everything out now is GENIUS!

I think you should sign yourself to www.pinkmusic.com
 

TEDG65

New Member
Vauxhall95, you have got it right....

As a longtime Smiths/Moz fan, I 've seen his ups and downs...for me Vauxhall was the most perfect record he ever did.....intriguing songwriting and even more intriguing music to go along with.

The Morrissey of 2009 is a tad bit better than the last 2 records but still
musically bland.....his hard rock is average at best. I think he could have done
so much more with these song musically, but he has taken the safe way out.
Remeber the days when the B-sides were as good or better than the album tracks??...Nobody Loves Us, This Is Not Your Country, Have A Go Merchant,I'll Never Learn.....I could go on and on.....the 2009 release does not even compare with these tracks.......

I say bring Alain Whyte back to the forefront and get rid of the bland Tobias!!
 

Vauxhall95

I Know It's Over...
I purchased some Pink tunes off iTunes just to see what the big deal was. The compilation CD lasted for two weeks and then proved boring, that's what lyrically bereft with catchy hooks buys me. I feel much the same about YOR.

I'm not sure why you think I dislike Maladjusted, quite the contrary. That album and it's excellent b-sides was a steady ally for years until the far superior You Are the Quarry arrived. Your belief the two albums are even similar seems odd to me. YATQ contained four great singles and album filler that was rich, poignant, and controversial. For the record, I also enjoyed ROTT very much. Far Off Places, Dear God, Life is a Pigsty, You Have Killed Me, At Last I'm Born were all great songs in their way.

Morrissey became "intensely unpopular with the press and the public" because of the arrival of Brit Pop and the Madstock episode. Once the fad and furor passed, it was clear the press had been too hard on him, and he was embraced.

Just to be clear, I don't hate YOR. It starts off well enough, the first two songs are strong but ultimately every track thereafter contains some fatal flaw. "It's Not Your Birthday Anymore" as the possible exception.

While you've done a good bit of trouncing of me, leaping to conclusions about me that are untrue, you have failed to address the basic premise I would put to any Morrissey fan who deemed to call YOR "genius." If it's genius, than what who do you compare his classic albums to YOR? Are they genuiser? You seem to be suggesting by way of calling it "genius" that it is every bit as good as, The Queen is Dead or Vauxhall and I. I just cannot follow that thinking and by suggesting it's still better than anyone else out there seems to me you are a hardened fan incapable of differentiating between anything Morrissey releases. Which I think is sad because I believe Morrissey would want you to actually question and think for yourself. At least, that's what I've gathered from listening to him lo these many years.

I think from your post you have proved my point. You fail to mention anything of the music, just condemn and say that this is why he nearly 'lost his career for seven years' Anyone would realise that the reason for his 'loss of seven years' is because Morrissey became intensely unpopular with the press and the public (other than the fanatic Morrissey fans)
I find it very funny that people like you believe Maladjusted is a weak album, and that his return was a complete triumph when You are the Quarry is very similar.

So if your vocabulary can strain to give a reply of something that contains at least a plausible argument, instead of crying 'Morrissey's best days were The Smiths and Vauxhall years'

Refer back to my first post. Yes YOR is a brilliant album, and compared to everything out now is GENIUS!

I think you should sign yourself to www.pinkmusic.com
 

Infatuation

New Member
Morrissey became "intensely unpopular with the press and the public" because of the arrival of Brit Pop and the Madstock episode. Once the fad and furor passed, it was clear the press had been too hard on him, and he was embraced.

Not at all. Madstock was years away from Maladjusted...
My comments still remain true shame about the fact you once more fail to mention the MUSIC which is the important thing.
I mentioned maladjusted, because you said that the lyrics lacked depth. But then inconsistently leap to the idea that Maladjusted was fabulous.
I pointed out that Southpaw and Maladjusted were hardly works of 'lyrical genius' as you would say, as you seem to think the more words that Morrissey puts into his songs that are longer and more complex than the ones in your already obviously advanced vocabulary collection, that somehow validates it as great, and thus more simple songs 'lack lyrical depth'

Maybe attempt some poetry, this will give you a greater love of lyrics.

Try Morrisseys favourite John Betjeman or even my personal least favourite Larkin.

You have a vague idea that the least complex the work, the lesser it shows depth. Well this simply isn't true, and before commenting and using my verbatim read the WHOLE post to atleast gain a lose grasp of my views, this applies to the rest of my beautiful replies to you.
 

Vauxhall95

I Know It's Over...
This is getting embarrassing (at least for me). For what it's worth, I have "Bone Palace Ballet" on my bedside right now, so please don't lecture me on poetry.

The music? Who listens to a Morrissey record for the music?! That's an absurd notion. Why not buy a Buckethead album for the lyrical content? Besides, I've already given you that the album is very accessible. There are catchy pop hooks. However, as one of, if not THE, premier lyricists of his generation, he gets judged (fairly or not) on the quality of his lyrical output. You really want to argue that "Sorry Doesn't Help Me, Black Cloud, I'm Throwing My Arms Around Paris, etc, etc" are on par with his very best (you know, his genius works)?!

You continue to tell me how clueless I am, but you refuse to (or cannot) refute the most basic premise: if YOR is genius (as you so vociferously maintain) than how do you rate "The Queen is Dead, or Vauxhall & I?" Both of which contained far better lyrics and MUSIC.

Not at all. Madstock was years away from Maladjusted...
My comments still remain true shame about the fact you once more fail to mention the MUSIC which is the important thing.
I mentioned maladjusted, because you said that the lyrics lacked depth. But then inconsistently leap to the idea that Maladjusted was fabulous.
I pointed out that Southpaw and Maladjusted were hardly works of 'lyrical genius' as you would say, as you seem to think the more words that Morrissey puts into his songs that are longer and more complex than the ones in your already obviously advanced vocabulary collection, that somehow validates it as great, and thus more simple songs 'lack lyrical depth'

Maybe attempt some poetry, this will give you a greater love of lyrics.

Try Morrisseys favourite John Betjeman or even my personal least favourite Larkin.

You have a vague idea that the least complex the work, the lesser it shows depth. Well this simply isn't true, and before commenting and using my verbatim read the WHOLE post to atleast gain a lose grasp of my views, this applies to the rest of my beautiful replies to you.
 

Infatuation

New Member
Indeed you are embarrassing and once more completely miss any notion of my ideas.
In your futile mind the lyrics are getting worse, I never said I agreed, I said that the lyrics may become simpler, that doesnt contest the worth of the lyrics, or make them any less appealing and meaningful.

Instead of embarrassing yourself repeatedly read what I have said, atleast make it look as if you know how to handle an argument.

Tip 1. Address my points, don't just misconceive my whole post and then blather on about useless information.

Take 5minutes to read past all of my other posts, and try, try, try at least to grasp some sense of what Im saying instead of saying, that i have admitted Morrisseys lyrics are bad, but the music makes up for it, because that isnt what I have said in anyway.

Read, read, read.


This is getting embarrassing (at least for me). For what it's worth, I have "Bone Palace Ballet" on my bedside right now, so please don't lecture me on poetry.

The music? Who listens to a Morrissey record for the music?! That's an absurd notion. Why not buy a Buckethead album for the lyrical content? Besides, I've already given you that the album is very accessible. There are catchy pop hooks. However, as one of, if not THE, premier lyricists of his generation, he gets judged (fairly or not) on the quality of his lyrical output. You really want to argue that "Sorry Doesn't Help Me, Black Cloud, I'm Throwing My Arms Around Paris, etc, etc" are on par with his very best (you know, his genius works)?!

You continue to tell me how clueless I am, but you refuse to (or cannot) refute the most basic premise: if YOR is genius (as you so vociferously maintain) than how do you rate "The Queen is Dead, or Vauxhall & I?" Both of which contained far better lyrics and MUSIC.
 

prisoner77

Member
I honestly think in the next few months I'm just going to pick up cheap copies of these two albums (if I get these two, I only need Kill Uncle and ROTT to have all his albums)--can't be arsed to spend too much money on new deluxe editions, especially since it looks like I'd have to import it anyway. I'm not much of a b-sides completist anyway--The Smiths were definitely a singles band, but solo Morrissey has arguably been more of an album artist.

So you don't have 4 of Morrissey's albums...And none of his singles..
 

Vauxhall95

I Know It's Over...
I am really trying to understand you. You think that YOR is genius, I don't. I'm more excited about hearing three unreleased tracks from 1995 than anything on Years of Refusal. That is how this started. I'm unclear how you have obtained the one and true opinion and position invalidating anyone else's taste or point of view???

Yes, I understand lyrical Morrissey's writing has changed. Yes, it is not nearly as poetic as it once was. I understand that complexity alone does not make Morrissey's lyrics great; however I fail to see the lyrical depth of, "I'm a savage beast, I've got nothing to sell, and when I die I want to go to (WAIT FOR IT) hell." WOW! Brilliant! Or the use of a metaphor of a "black cloud" which was used by Billy Bragg to far better effect years earlier. I'd further argue that "Nobody Loves Us" versus the similarly themed "I'm Throwing My Arms Around Paris" is a no brainer: the former is a Morrissey classic, the latter blase pop music. "Sorry Doesn't Help Me" and "Mama's" references to baliffs and QC's - no that hasn't been done before (you know like to death). Must I go on? I really do like Morrissey!:)

But the music, yes we must talk about the music! I love how Jeff Beck was brought in and then the guitar solo castrated from the song. That was genius. The overproduction on the sythn's in "Mama" and the bastardization of what was a lyrically fantastic tune in "You Were Good in Your Time" with a two minute breakdown fade out which is neither original (see Moonriver and Black Eyed Susan) or necessary (we get it they're dead - I've heard an edit of this where the breakdown is reduced to 20 seconds and it still manages to pack the emotional impact). The sheer inclusion of a two minute breakdown is narcissism run wildly amuck.

Whenever you want to explain how The Queen Is Dead and Years of Refusal are both genius albums please do. I've asked three times, and I'm ready to conclude you cannot or perhaps you've never heard anything before Southpaw?:confused:

If you want to talk about the music fine, talk about the music. Explain to me WHY you find this album genius. I honestly and sincerely want to hear. I like to debate, but do save your lecturing, posturing, and pretense for someone else because it is that which I find embarrassing to be part of.

Indeed you are embarrassing and once more completely miss any notion of my ideas.
In your futile mind the lyrics are getting worse, I never said I agreed, I said that the lyrics may become simpler, that doesnt contest the worth of the lyrics, or make them any less appealing and meaningful.

Instead of embarrassing yourself repeatedly read what I have said, atleast make it look as if you know how to handle an argument.

Tip 1. Address my points, don't just misconceive my whole post and then blather on about useless information.

Take 5minutes to read past all of my other posts, and try, try, try at least to grasp some sense of what Im saying instead of saying, that i have admitted Morrisseys lyrics are bad, but the music makes up for it, because that isnt what I have said in anyway.

Read, read, read.
 

FallOfFingolfin

New Member
So you don't have 4 of Morrissey's albums...And none of his singles..

What the hell is your point? I've been a fan for only about six months (I've been into the Smiths for well over a year), and I'm a college student. I think I have a decent number of albums already. Also, I have Bona Drag and the deluxe edition of Viva Hate, so I have a decent amount of B-sides and odds and ends.
 

Infatuation

New Member
Here we go, once more, not that you're eyesight will reach more than the third line, but I shall indulge.
Now as I have already said over and over is read read read, and gladly for you, you seem to have managed to read 1/3 of my post which is always nice.

I said in my original post, 'You need to realise the genius of YOR' This statement stands, it may not be as good as The Queen is Dead, but in terms of which I have already stated 'Against everything out at this moment it is GENIUS'
Considering the man is near 50, and can still produce a work to the standard of this says a great deal. Not that his age has anything to do with it, but it is a fact that he HAS been consistently GREAT. I dont care whether the NME, Q, or any other trend following magazine for what they have to say.
The point you have brought foreward, you've said that Morrissey from MAMA, blabbers on about the same things. Well this is a complete generalisation. You say he's done QC's to death and the like, and then you handpicked 'the savage beast' quote from 'One day...' which you believe states how lyrically stale Morrissey has become. Let me just show you a brief example of how inconsistant your argument is, and your refusal to believe anything from the hear and now counts because Morrissey isnt torutred or battling a suffocating lull of depression, or even sporting his NHS glasses, its time you realise this isnt MORRISSEY, he IS a different person. He has stated it himself, on numerous occasions which is why the consistent referral to Smiths albums in comparison is so unbearably pedantic and boring.

So the forever amazing Vauxhall (not that I dont think Vauxhall is better) that you cling to as an example of shining hope that you dedicate your name to. Lets investigate and identify the features you think make YOR lyrically bland.

'I will be in the barn, with my head on the barn' - Here I will do as you did to YOR not that I agree with this childish parading of Morrisseys meanings. (like you did with 'cmon not again') Ohhhhh very witty, the imagery so fantastic.

'Now my heart is full And I just cant explain So I wont even try to'

I could go on, its very easy to go on as you ad to identify lyrics that dont possess a huge rate of symbolism, imagery, and metaphor.
This doesnt take away from the album. In anyway. Which I have mentioned before in the 1014 replies I have given that you have decided to skip.

You take a stance of attack that Morrissey as you say 'goes on about thing too much' this could be said for The Smiths stuff more than Morrisseys which you seem to cherish more.

Now read my posts. It is written.



I am really trying to understand you. You think that YOR is genius, I don't. I'm more excited about hearing three unreleased tracks from 1995 than anything on Years of Refusal. That is how this started. I'm unclear how you have obtained the one and true opinion and position invalidating anyone else's taste or point of view???

Yes, I understand lyrical Morrissey's writing has changed. Yes, it is not nearly as poetic as it once was. I understand that complexity alone does not make Morrissey's lyrics great; however I fail to see the lyrical depth of, "I'm a savage beast, I've got nothing to sell, and when I die I want to go to (WAIT FOR IT) hell." WOW! Brilliant! Or the use of a metaphor of a "black cloud" which was used by Billy Bragg to far better effect years earlier. I'd further argue that "Nobody Loves Us" versus the similarly themed "I'm Throwing My Arms Around Paris" is a no brainer: the former is a Morrissey classic, the latter blase pop music. "Sorry Doesn't Help Me" and "Mama's" references to baliffs and QC's - no that hasn't been done before (you know like to death). Must I go on? I really do like Morrissey!:)

But the music, yes we must talk about the music! I love how Jeff Beck was brought in and then the guitar solo castrated from the song. That was genius. The overproduction on the sythn's in "Mama" and the bastardization of what was a lyrically fantastic tune in "You Were Good in Your Time" with a two minute breakdown fade out which is neither original (see Moonriver and Black Eyed Susan) or necessary (we get it they're dead - I've heard an edit of this where the breakdown is reduced to 20 seconds and it still manages to pack the emotional impact). The sheer inclusion of a two minute breakdown is narcissism run wildly amuck.

Whenever you want to explain how The Queen Is Dead and Years of Refusal are both genius albums please do. I've asked three times, and I'm ready to conclude you cannot or perhaps you've never heard anything before Southpaw?:confused:

If you want to talk about the music fine, talk about the music. Explain to me WHY you find this album genius. I honestly and sincerely want to hear. I like to debate, but do save your lecturing, posturing, and pretense for someone else because it is that which I find embarrassing to be part of.
 

Vauxhall95

I Know It's Over...
So, after all this fuss, it's not a genius album?! It's just better than the pop dreck currently available. Normally, I'd agree without equivocation but YOR is so shallow, so conventional that it is actually getting rave reviews. Yes, this is an album for small minds and Morrissey has never set his sites so low. This is the first album that has ever given me pause to doubt his position as a lyrical genius. It really is that bad. Consequently, I am more excited about three songs from Morrissey's past than anything on this album. Listening to him deface his legacy by crooning about "dim ass teens on a spree" is not how I'd like to remember Morrissey. Further, I'm glad he's happy, or at least contented (why wouldn't I be?!). I fail to understand why because he is now "okay by himself" his penchant for sly, clever, and witty insight into the human condition must cease? Furthermore, nearly every song on YOR is lyrical unappealing, and while I agree it is easy to pick and choose lyrics I'm not sure where it gets you to quote lines from two of Morrissey's best solo works? It's "bar" not barn, and Now My Heart Is Full deals with suicide so perhaps the futility of the lyric you quote my make more sense to you in that context.

Here we go, once more, not that you're eyesight will reach more than the third line, but I shall indulge.
Now as I have already said over and over is read read read, and gladly for you, you seem to have managed to read 1/3 of my post which is always nice.

I said in my original post, 'You need to realise the genius of YOR' This statement stands, it may not be as good as The Queen is Dead, but in terms of which I have already stated 'Against everything out at this moment it is GENIUS'
Considering the man is near 50, and can still produce a work to the standard of this says a great deal. Not that his age has anything to do with it, but it is a fact that he HAS been consistently GREAT. I dont care whether the NME, Q, or any other trend following magazine for what they have to say.
The point you have brought foreward, you've said that Morrissey from MAMA, blabbers on about the same things. Well this is a complete generalisation. You say he's done QC's to death and the like, and then you handpicked 'the savage beast' quote from 'One day...' which you believe states how lyrically stale Morrissey has become. Let me just show you a brief example of how inconsistant your argument is, and your refusal to believe anything from the hear and now counts because Morrissey isnt torutred or battling a suffocating lull of depression, or even sporting his NHS glasses, its time you realise this isnt MORRISSEY, he IS a different person. He has stated it himself, on numerous occasions which is why the consistent referral to Smiths albums in comparison is so unbearably pedantic and boring.

So the forever amazing Vauxhall (not that I dont think Vauxhall is better) that you cling to as an example of shining hope that you dedicate your name to. Lets investigate and identify the features you think make YOR lyrically bland.

'I will be in the barn, with my head on the barn' - Here I will do as you did to YOR not that I agree with this childish parading of Morrisseys meanings. (like you did with 'cmon not again') Ohhhhh very witty, the imagery so fantastic.

'Now my heart is full And I just cant explain So I wont even try to'

I could go on, its very easy to go on as you ad to identify lyrics that dont possess a huge rate of symbolism, imagery, and metaphor.
This doesnt take away from the album. In anyway. Which I have mentioned before in the 1014 replies I have given that you have decided to skip.

You take a stance of attack that Morrissey as you say 'goes on about thing too much' this could be said for The Smiths stuff more than Morrisseys which you seem to cherish more.

Now read my posts. It is written.
 

Infatuation

New Member
Yes Im fully aware it is BAR, not BARN, but i was in a rush my reply unlike you taking 1 hour to find the braincells to reply.

Once more you completely miss my points, I suggest you ring specsavers or see your local GP possibly they could help you.
This album is great, and it has moments of utter genius. ESPECIALLY 'Mama' 'OK' 'Carol/Birthday' The lyrical content is very high and that are among the highest of his career.
Ive decided the best thing to do is ignore you irritable and nonsensical posts, and also refuse to acknowledge the very idiotic points you make, as you have not replied to anything I have said or supplied evidence.

And also since WHEN is now my heart is full about suicide you complete moron. I suggest as you desperately need it, ask your boss for time off, so you can seclude yourself from that mindlessness that obviously has fulfilled your puny life, and listen to YOR on a loop. Preferably VINYL.

Then instead of moaning and whining about it not being The Smiths, and not containing a hundred words you have no grasp of, you may just learn good music, THIS SAID, you have download the artist Pink and therefore your opinion has ALWAYS been void.


So, after all this fuss, it's not a genius album?! It's just better than the pop dreck currently available. Normally, I'd agree without equivocation but YOR is so shallow, so conventional that it is actually getting rave reviews. Yes, this is an album for small minds and Morrissey has never set his sites so low. This is the first album that has ever given me pause to doubt his position as a lyrical genius. It really is that bad. Consequently, I am more excited about three songs from Morrissey's past than anything on this album. Listening to him deface his legacy by crooning about "dim ass teens on a spree" is not how I'd like to remember Morrissey. Further, I'm glad he's happy, or at least contented (why wouldn't I be?!). I fail to understand why because he is now "okay by himself" his penchant for sly, clever, and witty insight into the human condition must cease? Furthermore, nearly every song on YOR is lyrical unappealing, and while I agree it is easy to pick and choose lyrics I'm not sure where it gets you to quote lines from two of Morrissey's best solo works? It's "bar" not barn, and Now My Heart Is Full deals with suicide so perhaps the futility of the lyric you quote my make more sense to you in that context.
 

FallOfFingolfin

New Member
Yes Im fully aware it is BAR, not BARN, but i was in a rush my reply unlike you taking 1 hour to find the braincells to reply.

Once more you completely miss my points, I suggest you ring specsavers or see your local GP possibly they could help you.
This album is great, and it has moments of utter genius. ESPECIALLY 'Mama' 'OK' 'Carol/Birthday' The lyrical content is very high and that are among the highest of his career.
Ive decided the best thing to do is ignore you irritable and nonsensical posts, and also refuse to acknowledge the very idiotic points you make, as you have not replied to anything I have said or supplied evidence.

And also since WHEN is now my heart is full about suicide you complete moron. I suggest as you desperately need it, ask your boss for time off, so you can seclude yourself from that mindlessness that obviously has fulfilled your puny life, and listen to YOR on a loop. Preferably VINYL.

Then instead of moaning and whining about it not being The Smiths, and not containing a hundred words you have no grasp of, you may just learn good music, THIS SAID, you have download the artist Pink and therefore your opinion has ALWAYS been void.

Time for me to butt in...

First of all, I'm not fully on either of your sides. First of all, I don't find YoR embarassing. Not in the slightest. Right now, after six or seven listens, I'd give it 7.75/10, and that may go up. It works much better as an album than, say, Quarry.

I do have some reservations about the lyrics. I would agree that they're maybe not his usual quality in some cases. However, I don't think they have made me "doubt his lyrical ability". It's not something that's going away...he was just trying to do something new with this album

Also, I've always thought "Now My Heart Is Full" was at least about the contemplation of suicide.

Also, Vauxhall95 hasn't complained about it not being The Smiths. Maybe he's just a big Morrissey fan who's disappointed in the album? Why does the first conclusion have to be that he just wants everything to be The Smiths? Even though I don't quite agree with his evaluations of the album, you are being a bit quick to jump the gun here.
 

Infatuation

New Member
Time for me to butt in...

First of all, I'm not fully on either of your sides. First of all, I don't find YoR embarassing. Not in the slightest. Right now, after six or seven listens, I'd give it 7.75/10, and that may go up. It works much better as an album than, say, Quarry.

I do have some reservations about the lyrics. I would agree that they're maybe not his usual quality in some cases. However, I don't think they have made me "doubt his lyrical ability". It's not something that's going away...he was just trying to do something new with this album

Also, I've always thought "Now My Heart Is Full" was at least about the contemplation of suicide.

Also, Vauxhall95 hasn't complained about it not being The Smiths. Maybe he's just a big Morrissey fan who's disappointed in the album? Why does the first conclusion have to be that he just wants everything to be The Smiths? Even though I don't quite agree with his evaluations of the album, you are being a bit quick to jump the gun here.

Before you comment, read EVERY SINGLE POST. Then I may allow you to have an opinion
 

FallOfFingolfin

New Member
Before you comment, read EVERY SINGLE POST. Then I may allow you to have an opinion

I have been. I posted in here earlier today before this debate broke out. As I said, I really enjoy YoR. I think Vauxhall is being far too harsh about it, but I also think you're being overly defensive, naive, and far too rude.

And who the hell are you to "allow" me to have an opinion?
 

Suedebread

The shop that never opens
I have been. I posted in here earlier today before this debate broke out. As I said, I really enjoy YoR. I think Vauxhall is being far too harsh about it, but I also think you're being overly defensive, naive, and far too rude.

And who the hell are you to "allow" me to have an opinion?
Finish him! ;)
 

FallOfFingolfin

New Member
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