Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan now?

Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan now?

  • I disfavor Moz. I trend against him. But I can be objective sometimes, but not all times.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I f***ing HATE Morrissey. It doesn't matter what he does. I loathe him.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    39

marred

Member
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

This thread left out the option: "I constantly complain about Morrissey and feel the need to label people Morrissey apologists any chance I get."
 

marred

Member
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

This thread left out the option: "I constantly complain about Morrissey and feel the need to label people Morrissey apologists any chance I get."

I'm pretty sure I can name 4 people who didn't give this comment the thumbs up :)
 

King Leer

Leering since '97
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

Chose the first option, despite its hyperbole. It's still closer than any of the other choices.

I'd just like to say that the entire spectrum of users on here will be shedding a tear (or many) when the Mozfather is gone from this world. That includes BrummieBoy and the rest of the haters. They may not admit it but they will cry. I'll console them like I would any other fan...
 

Chickpea

pithy yet degenerate
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

I went with "other," which I know is always kind of a cop out choice, but to answer the question posed by the poll title, no—it's not that simple.

I don't see Morrissey as anything other than a human, and just as with other humans, I don't expect to always agree with everything he says or love everything he does. That fact doesn't make me think any less of him, though. To that end I suppose I am an apologist in the eyes of those who think the only alternative to readily agreeing with and loving everything is angrily chastising the man and picking apart all of his words until there's nothing of any value left, but I don't personally see any negative in accepting mistakes and flaws. Everyone is a hypocrite. Everyone screws up. It's OK. I don't have a problem with Morrissey (or anyone) not being perfect.

(I do have a problem with the constant misuse of the word "sycophant" by certain members of this forum, though.)

Great poll, BG.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

If it does reflect the wider reality, that is quite sad. Ten years ago, Morrissey's career was still an active, formidable thing. Even in the first "wilderness period", we had the Oye Esteban tour, the excitement of The Importance...documentary, the fantastic success of Quarry which reeled in thousands of new fans, etc. People had "missed" Morrissey and that momentum carried him (and Solo) for years. Since then, his career has been a story of diminishing returns; every album selling less than the one before, and a second "wilderness period" at a time when his ridiculous controversies had already alienated too many fans to withstand it. Nobody gets a second comeback, not even Moz - and when he's given a lifeline by Harvest, he f***s it up by refusing to do any promotion and we're back to square one. The most diehard and dedicated of fans just left, exactly as he predicted in Rubber Ring and latterly in You Know I Couldn't Last.

Solo does not have a "community" anymore in any thriving or cohesive sense. It's desolate; a small, disparate collection of "haters" and people who can't bring themselves to let go, eternal optimists determined to go down with the ship and maybe 1 or two "sycophants" who haven't been around very long and have no camaraderie with the other posters, which is why every thread devolves into an argument.

The moderation on this site...well, frankly, there is none. I get the impression that Uncleskinny knows he's not really a fan anymore and stays around now more out of loyalty to David Tseng and the old Solo than anything to do with Morrissey. These days he just tells various users to f*** themselves, laments what has become of his hero and waits for that ever-distant Smiths reunion. That's not moderation or 'fandom', it's just treading water.

An excellent post, Amy.

I think the disintegration of Solo has myriad causes, not the least of which is the quality of posts. I've peeked in and out since it's inception and I can't recall there ever being so many know-it-alls profusely shooting their loads of nonsense all over this place. I'm sure posters have grown out of Morrissey for many different reasons, but it also appears a lot of the thoughtful, intelligent participants have left due to the patients running the asylum -- and the absurd amount of 'intellect' these self-righteous dilettantes credit themselves with.
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

I went with "other," which I know is always kind of a cop out choice, but to answer the question posed by the poll title, no—it's not that simple.

I don't see Morrissey as anything other than a human, and just as with other humans, I don't expect to always agree with everything he says or love everything he does. That fact doesn't make me think any less of him, though. To that end I suppose I am an apologist in the eyes of those who think the only alternative to readily agreeing with and loving everything is angrily chastising the man and picking apart all of his words until there's nothing of any value left, but I don't personally see any negative in accepting mistakes and flaws. Everyone is a hypocrite. Everyone screws up. It's OK. I don't have a problem with Morrissey (or anyone) not being perfect.

(I do have a problem with the constant misuse of the word "sycophant" by certain members of this forum, though.)

Great poll, BG.

This is the definition I accept and it DOES apply to many members on these forums: Sycophancy[2] is flattery that is very obedient, or an indication of deference to another, to an excessive or servile degree. A user of sycophancy, is referred to as a sycophant.
 

BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

Chose the first option, despite its hyperbole. It's still closer than any of the other choices.

I'd just like to say that the entire spectrum of users on here will be shedding a tear (or many) when the Mozfather is gone from this world. That includes BrummieBoy and the rest of the haters. They may not admit it but they will cry. I'll console them like I would any other fan...

Tears of joy? That depends on the circumstances of his death.......if he chokes on cheese, then I'll LOL!...probably for ever.

best
BB

- - - Updated - - -

My time as a fan came along in a whirl of obsession, lasted 10 years or so, dwindled and then died. I'm not even sure why. I fell out of love with the music, gradually, and with "the man", more rapidly. Around the time he started parading the band in bras and sequinned dresses, I felt increasing distaste, and then it just faded to boredom and apathy. Everything became predictable - the music, the controversies, the TTY missives - and I just became so tired of it. I have tried to re-stoke the fire - prior to this comment I watched Who Put the M..?, which I love, and went a on video-fest of all the great 90s stuff. Can't feel anything. They're still good songs, sure, but the emotional connection I had to it is gone. If you can watch this and not feel anything, you know it's over.

[youtube]EK_YXVTULLE#t=105[/youtube]


So has Morrissey changed or have I? No idea. I became a fan just before Quarry when I was a young teenager, so it was the perfect time. Seeing him live was a semi-religious experience - I felt a surge of love and allegiance that was almost visceral. Now I'm mid-20s and feel like I've outgrown something that dominated my life for years, it's a strange sense of loss.

I can identify with the sycophants, because I once was one too, and I can identify with the disillusioned and bitter ex-fans who hang around criticising, because I've felt that way as well. My guess is that Barleycorn and Brummy were the most frothing, fizzing obsessives of all at one point in their lives, and the emotional space they allocated to Morrissey was so deep that they can't quite bring themselves to leave the Mozziverse.

In case I haven't fitted into enough 'hater' stereotypes yet.. this numbness hasn't affected my feelings about The Smiths. Every song hits me in the gut like it always did; better to burn out than fade away.

A rather obvious theory that's been answered by me several times. I've always enjoyed his singing, lyrics, stage-craft and interviews. But recent years of TTY ranting and general Diva tantrums have reduced him to a figure of ridicule. Morrissey has never occupied a deep emotional space compared to, say, Leonard Cohen. Now, don't get me started on that Zen faker prat!

best
BB
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

A rather obvious theory that's been answered by me several times. I've always enjoyed his singing, lyrics, stage-craft and interviews. But recent years of TTY ranting and general Diva tantrums have reduced him to a figure of ridicule. Morrissey has never occupied a deep emotional space compared to, say, Leonard Cohen. Now, don't get me started on that Zen faker prat!

best
BB

Well, it's true, isn't it? If you didn't care on some level, you wouldn't be here - the tantrums and TTY rants would have driven you away like they did most others.
I can't imagine you hanging around on Solo hoping for dazzling wit and insightful conversation, in any case.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

Well, it's true, isn't it? If you didn't care on some level, you wouldn't be here - the tantrums and TTY rants would have driven you away like they did most others.
I can't imagine you hanging around on Solo hoping for dazzling wit and insightful conversation, in any case.

too right.
 

Chip

Member
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

This is the definition I accept and it DOES apply to many members on these forums: Sycophancy[2] is flattery that is very obedient, or an indication of deference to another, to an excessive or servile degree. A user of sycophancy, is referred to as a sycophant.


New Oxford American English gives us this definition, which is line with how I've always understood the word.

sycophant |ˈsikəfənt, -ˌfant|
noun
a person who acts obsequiously toward someone important in order to gain advantage.

I think it is really difficult to call someone a sycophant when they don't even know the person in question. It's generally more than being a constant defender, there is generally some hope of quid pro quo or some other type of advantage.

Unless, people believe by spending their time arguing with useless trolls on a really mostly anonymous internet message board Morrissey is going to find out and reward them be whisking him away to his magical castle, bequeath his estate towards them in his will (and who doesn't want to get their fingers on his vintage vinyl copy of Chelsea Girls? I mean that's why we spend time listening to his music right?), or be appointed tour manager (which strikes me as poor of a punishment than a reward, but masochists are people too!) it is really a grasp to label them sycophants.
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

New Oxford American English gives us this definition, which is line with how I've always understood the word.



I think it is really difficult to call someone a sycophant when they don't even know the person in question. It's generally more than being a constant defender, there is generally some hope of quid pro quo or some other type of advantage.

Unless, people believe by spending their time arguing with useless trolls on a really mostly anonymous internet message board Morrissey is going to find out and reward them be whisking him away to his magical castle, bequeath his estate towards them in his will (and who doesn't want to get their fingers on his vintage vinyl copy of Chelsea Girls? I mean that's why we spend time listening to his music right?), or be appointed tour manager (which strikes me as poor of a punishment than a reward, but masochists are people too!) it is really a grasp to label them sycophants.

I disagree. All actions are done for selfish reasons. There is no such thing as altruism. They defend him because it benefits them to do so. Each is defending their carefully constructed fan paradigm against anything that threatens to shake its foundation. The reward for their sycophancy is self-preservation of their self-concept.
 

marred

Member
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

I disagree. All actions are done for selfish reasons. There is no such thing as altruism. They defend him because it benefits them to do so. Each is defending their carefully constructed fan paradigm against anything that threatens to shake its foundation. The reward for their sycophancy is self-preservation of their self-concept.

My god you're boring.
 

BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

Well, it's true, isn't it? If you didn't care on some level, you wouldn't be here - the tantrums and TTY rants would have driven you away like they did most others.
I can't imagine you hanging around on Solo hoping for dazzling wit and insightful conversation, in any case.

Having answered your speculation, only to find you insist on keeping to your erroneous view, I can see no point in continuing this discussion.

best
BB
 

Chip

Member
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

I disagree. All actions are done for selfish reasons. There is no such thing as altruism. They defend him because it benefits them to do so. Each is defending their carefully constructed fan paradigm against anything that threatens to shake its foundation. The reward for their sycophancy is self-preservation of their self-concept.

That is a creative interoperation of the English-language. I am not really sure if that type of mental self-advantage is compatible with my understanding of the word sycophant.

I mean under your conceptual framework they're not really Morrissey sycophants since they gain nothing from Morrissey? They are self-sycophants? Which is like I said very creative, but I am not totally sure I see it.
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

That is a creative interoperation of the English-language. I am not really sure if that type of mental self-advantage is compatible with my understanding of the word sycophant.

I mean under your conceptual framework they're not really Morrissey sycophants since they gain nothing from Morrissey? They are self-sycophants? Which is like I said very creative, but I am not totally sure I see it.

I do think there are many here who are delusional and think Morrissey reads their posts. And think if they were to ever meet him that he would be grateful and reward them for their years of sycophancy. Look how Julia is rewarded, after all. And many have expressed that she is living the ideal existence.
 

Chip

Member
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

I do think there are many here who are delusional and think Morrissey reads their posts. And think if they were to ever meet him that he would be grateful and reward them for their years of sycophancy. Look how Julia is rewarded, after all. And many have expressed that she is living the ideal existence.


That really is a separate issue. And really not in contradiction with what I said originally.

Unless, people believe by spending their time arguing with useless trolls on a really mostly anonymous internet message board Morrissey is going to find out and reward them be whisking him away to his magical castle, bequeath his estate towards them in his will (and who doesn't want to get their fingers on his vintage vinyl copy of Chelsea Girls? I mean that's why we spend time listening to his music right?), or be appointed tour manager (which strikes me as poor of a punishment than a reward, but masochists are people too!) it is really a grasp to label them sycophants.

If you think that people on here think they could possibly be rewarded by Morrissey for their comments and that is their sole or main motivation in making them--than yes I suppose it is correct to classify their actions as "sycophancy." That's not the point that was being made earlier in this thread (or if it was I misunderstood) and I have no idea if anyone is really operating under that set of assumptions.

As far as Julia goes, I have never seen anyone express the sentiments you are describing, though it is certainly possible that they have and I missed them. I don't monitor every post on this board. The only posts I have seen about Julia for the most part have been negative, many of them containing truly shocking levels of vitriol.
 

MozsMan

New Member
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

Get rid of Jesse!
 

MozsMan

New Member
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

This thread left out the option: "I constantly complain about Morrissey and feel the need to label people Morrissey apologists any chance I get."

So true.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: Sycophants vs. Haters. Is it really that simple? How do you self-identify as a MORRISSEY fan no

"That is a creative interoperation of the English-language. I am not really sure if that type of mental self-advantage is compatible with my understanding of the word sycophant.

I mean under your conceptual framework they're not really Morrissey sycophants since they gain nothing from Morrissey? They are self-sycophants? Which is like I said very creative, but I am not totally sure I see it."



this is funny
 
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