The most disappointing thing about Morrissey...

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Guest
is that he actually supports, and promotes the absolute wackos (PETA). Although, I am aware that Morrissey should be taken about as seriously when it comes to political matters as Anne Coulter, it's still embarassing.

Oh, and before the cliches are launched, I once supported PETA. Luckily, I grew older, and developed proper rationale. Unfortunately, there are others out there that still function at the teenage level when it comes to reason, and political matters. This is dedicated to you you.

Mature people who care about animals support Animal Welfare, immature people bent on idenitty politics tend to support fringe groups like PETA. For all the talk about how crazy suicide bombers, and the Hale Bop Comet cult are, PETA followers are slowly catching up.

I am also aware that no matter how many insane proclamations are made by groups like PETA, there will be those who will defend them forever. Still, if there is at least one person who is on the fence about the subject, hopefully some light can be shed on the movement.

"The following are selected quotes by animal rights leaders expressing the often-hidden agenda of their movement. They were compiled by the American Animal Welfare Foundation, St. Paul, MN."

"Animal liberationists do not separate out the human animal, so there is no rational basis for saying that a human being has special rights. A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. They're all mammals."
Ingrid Newkirk
Founder, PETA
As quoted in Vogue, September, 1989

"The life of an ant and the life of my child should be granted equal consideration."
Michael Fox
Vice President, HSUS

"Six million Jews died in concentration camps, but six billion broiler chickens will die this year in slaughterhouses."
Ingrid Newkirk
Founder, PETA
Washington Post, 1983

"Humans have grown like cancer. We're the biggest blight on the face of the planet."
Ingrid Newkirk
Founder, PETA
Reader's Digest, June, 1990

"I am not a morose person but I would rather not be here. I don't have any reverence for life, only for the entities themselves. I would rather see a blank space where I am. This will sound like fruitcake stuff again, but at least I wouldn't be harming anything."
Ingrid Newkirk
Founder, PETA
Washington Post, November 13, 1983

"Probably everything we do is a publicity stunt...We are not here to gather members, to please, to placate, to make friends. We're here to hold the radical line."
Ingrid Newkirk
Founder, PETA
USA Today, September 3, 1991

"Even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it."
Ingrid Newkirk
Founder, PETA
Vogue, September, 1989

-"Even painless research is fascism, supremacism, because the act of confinement is traumatizing in itself."
Ingrid Newkirk
Founder, PETA
Washington Magazine, August, 1986

"It (animal research) is immoral even if it is essential."
Ingrid Newkirk
Founder, PETA
Washington Post, May 30, 1989

"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought on by human manipulation."
Ingrid Newkirk
Founder, PETA
Washington Magazine, August 1986

"One day we would like an end to pet shops and the breeding of animals. (Dogs) would pursue their natural lives in the wild...They would have full lives, not waiting at home for someone to come home in the evening and pet them and then sit there and watch TV."
Ingrid Newkirk
Founder, PETA
"Where Would We Be Without Animals?, Chicago Daily Herald, March 1, 1990

"...Eventually companion animals would be phased out, and we would return to a more symbiotic relationship, enjoyment at a distance."
Ingrid Newkirk
Founder, PETA
Harpers, August, 1988

"We feel that animals have the same rights as a retarded human child."
Alex Pacheco
Chairman, PETA,
The New York Times, Jan. 14, 1989

"We have a lazy, sick society. People bring diseases on themselves. [People should] avoid getting the disease in the first place."
Dan Mathews
PeTA spokesperson
USA Today, July 27, 1994

Question to PeTA Outreach Coordinator Susan Rich: "If you were aboard a lifeboat with a baby and a dog, and the boat capsized, which would you rescue?"
Rich's answer: "I wouldn't know for sure...I might choose the human baby or I might choose the dog."
Steve Kane Show
WIOD-AM Radio
Miami, FL
Feb, 23, 1989

"In a perfect world, all other than human animals would be free of human interference, dogs and cats would part of the ecological scheme."
PeTA's Statement on Companion Animals

In response to Animal Liberation Front violence in the Pacific Northwest: "We cannot condemn the Animal Liberation Front...they act courageously, risking their freedom and their careers to stop the terror inflicted every day on animals in the labs. [ALF's activities] comprise an important part of today's animal protection movement."
PeTA statement
June 19, 1991

"Homelessness drives me crazy! I take responsibility for everything that happens to me. Everyone can pull themselves up. I have more sympathy for animals because they don't deserve anything that happens to them. They're innocent."
PeTa member
"What Becomes a Zealot Most?"
GQ Magazine
November 1993

"The life of an ant and the life of my child should be granted equal consideration."
Michael Fox
HSUS President
Inhumane Society
Fox Publication

"We're not superior. There are no clear distinctions between us and animals."
Michael Fox
Washingtonian Magazine
February 1990

"Man is the most dangerous, destructive, selfish and unethical animal on earth."
Michael Fox
The Intellectual Activist
Sept. 14, 1983

(Expressing opposition to use of bug sprays) "Only a few of the million you kill would have bitten you."
Michael Fox
Returning to Eden
Fox Publication

"We have no ethical obligation to preserve the different breeds of livestock produced through selective breeding. ...One generation and out. We have no problem with the extinction of domestic animals. They are creations of human selective breeding."
Wayne Pacelle
Animal People
May 1993

"If we could shut down all sport hunting in a moment, we would."
Wayne Pacelle
formerly of Friends of Animals
Impassioned Agitator
Associated Press
Dec. 30, 1991

"If abandoning animal research means that there are some things we cannot learn, then so be it... We have no basic right...not to be harmed by those natural diseases we are heir to."
Tom Regan
North Carolina State University
The Case for Animal Rights, 1983

"It is not larger, cleaner cages that justice demands...but empty cages; not traditional animal agriculture but a complete end to all commerce in the flesh of dead animals; not more humane hunting and trapping, but the total eradication of these barbarous practices."
Tom Regan
North Carolina State University
The Philosophy of Animal Rights, 1989

When asked which he would save, a dog or a baby, if a boat capsized in the ocean: "If it were a retarded baby and a bright dog, I'd save the dog."
Tom Regan
North Carolina State University
Q & A session following speech
"Animal Rights, Human Wrongs"
U of Wisconsin-Madison
Oct. 27, 1989

"Even granting that we [humans] face greater harm than laboratory animals presently endure if research on these animals is stopped, the animal rights view will not be satisfied with anything less than total abolition."
Tom Regan
North Carolina State University
The Case for Animal Rights, 1983
 
PETA´s great. They´re changing the world for the better.
 
As a teenaged PETA supporter I am offended that you have called me irrational, unreasonable and immature. I am far from any of those. Which you would know if you knew me. Which you do not.

Do you DARE dissagre that we are equal with other animals. I'm sorry, did god magically create us to be better than all other creatures on the Earth? Ingrid Newkirk is right. We are a f***ing disease.
 
Thank you for the cliched, prepubescent response. As I supsected, little intellect, and lots of emotion. So, to answer your question, without meeting you face to face, you have essentially proven to be an irrational wacko by supporting the listed quotes above, and calling the human race "a disease."

This is the internet, and people tend to indulge those personality traits that they often veil from others in their daily lives. So, why would I need to meet you? These are your words, or do you tend to change them in person?

I suggest that you kill yourself. Afterall, you don't want to go around spreading your diseased nature throughout the rest of the world.

Seriously, are weak mindsets like your created purely from self-loathing, or is it just youth? You can't be older than 19.

P.S. You should be offended. More importantly, you should reflect as to why being offended on this subject matters so much to you. Afterall, it's all about conviciton right? I mean, it's everyobdy else that's "inhumane."
 
Thank you for the cliched, prepubescent response. As I supsected, little intellect, and lots of emotion. So, to answer your question, without meeting you face to face, you have essentially proven to be an irrational wacko by supporting the listed quotes above, and calling the human race "a disease."

This is the internet, and people tend to indulge those personality traits that they often veil from others in their daily lives. So, why would I need to meet you? These are your words, or do you tend to change them in person?

I suggest that you kill yourself. Afterall, you don't want to go around spreading your diseased nature throughout the rest of the world.

Seriously, are weak mindsets like your created purely from self-loathing, or is it just youth? You can't be older than 19.

P.S. You should be offended. More importantly, you should reflect as to why being offended on this subject matters so much to you. Afterall, it's all about conviciton right? I mean, it's everyobdy else that's "inhumane."
 
Thank you for the cliched, prepubescent response. As I supsected, little intellect, and lots of emotion. So, to answer your question, without meeting you face to face, you have essentially proven to be an irrational wacko by supporting the listed quotes above, and calling the human race "a disease."

This is the internet, and people tend to indulge those personality traits that they often veil from others in their daily lives. So, why would I need to meet you? These are your words, or do you tend to change them in person?

I suggest that you kill yourself. Afterall, you don't want to go around spreading your diseased nature throughout the rest of the world.

And you should be offended. More importantly, you should reflect on why being offended on this subject matters so much to you. Afterall, it's all about conviciton right? I mean, it's everyobdy else that's "inhumane."

Finally, no, we are not equal to all other animals. Human beings invented the concept of rights, therefore, they can only exist through us. I would say that the irony of that fact alone makes us incredibly different from virtually all other animals. Indeed, we are an animal, but not all animals are created equal. An ants life is not as relevant as a human being's life. A diseased child should not be left to languish because of any ban on animal testing.

> As a teenaged PETA supporter I am offended that you have called me
> irrational, unreasonable and immature. I am far from any of those. Which
> you would know if you knew me. Which you do not.

> Do you DARE dissagre that we are equal with other animals. I'm sorry, did
> god magically create us to be better than all other creatures on the
> Earth? Ingrid Newkirk is right. We are a f***ing disease.
 
> Thank you for the cliched, prepubescent response. As I supsected, little
> intellect, and lots of emotion. So, to answer your question, without
> meeting you face to face, you have essentially proven to be an irrational
> wacko by supporting the listed quotes above, and calling the human race
> "a disease."

Your welcome. I didn't say I supported all the quotes. I don't agree with everything PETA does and says. I just agree with the general message. I admit some people involved with PETA are a little too extreme even for me. I will also admit that probably did look like it was mostly emotion, I feel kind of strongly about this. A lot more strongly then I feel about most things. As far as the disease bit goes, it is kind of an exageration. I don't think all people are a disease. But a lot really are and it makes me very sad.

> This is the internet, and people tend to indulge those personality traits
> that they often veil from others in their daily lives. So, why would I
> need to meet you? These are your words, or do you tend to change them in
> person?

When I occasionally do talk to people about such a subject as this I say much the same things as when I talk about it on the internet with strangers. So, uh, no, I'm not "indulging" in any secret personality traits.

> I suggest that you kill yourself. Afterall, you don't want to go around
> spreading your diseased nature throughout the rest of the world.

hahah, That'd hardly accomplish much.

> Seriously, are weak mindsets like your created purely from self-loathing,
> or is it just youth? You can't be older than 19.

Self-loathing?? Where the f*** did that come from? I don't loath myself. Nor do I think too highly of myself. I'm 15. None of these things have anything whatsoever to do with the topic at hand.

> P.S. You should be offended. More importantly, you should reflect as to
> why being offended on this subject matters so much to you. Afterall, it's
> all about conviciton right? I mean, it's everyobdy else that's
> "inhumane."

Like I said, I feel very strongly about this subject, and yes, I was offended at being called irrational, unreasonable and immature. I am very rational, I am also very reasonable, and a LOT more mature then most people my age. Of course you wouldn't know that since you do not know me... and you probably do not belive me either. I'm going to college actually. At my age doesn't that at least say something about my intellect and maturity?
 
i hate to generalize, but since i do not know you...

in most cases when a teenage or early 20s college student feels strongly about PETA and the things they stand for, this person is not being intelligent or mature. they are just being Trendy.
 
...is his tiny little acorn of a penis. I barely even felt it enter.
 
> ...is his tiny little acorn of a penis. I barely even felt it enter.

I thought Moz was big. I´ve heard that he´s almost 10 inch!
 
> I'm going to college actually. At my age doesn't that at least say something >about my intellect and maturity?

Going to college at age 15 says something about intellect, but does not say anything about maturity.
If, for example, a 10 year old were a genius and going to college, does that make him/her mature?
There are many "college" aged people in college, who are definitely not mature.
Education level has nothing to do with maturity, nor does age, for that matter.
 
> I'm going to college actually. At my age doesn't that at least say something >about my intellect and maturity?

Going to college at age 15 says something about intellect, but does not say anything about maturity.
If, for example, a 10 year old were a genius and going to college, does that make him/her mature?
There are many "college" aged people in college, who are definitely not mature.
Education level has nothing to do with maturity, nor does age, for that matter.
 
> Thank you for the cliched, prepubescent response. As I supsected, little
> intellect, and lots of emotion. So, to answer your question, without
> meeting you face to face, you have essentially proven to be an irrational
> wacko by supporting the listed quotes above, and calling the human race
> "a disease."

I'm not prepubescent but I strongly disagree with your (very well put) argument. Please explain to me why we are the only entities on the planet that are actually destroying it? If the human race dissappeared tomorrow the planet would still turn perfectly well without us.

Definition of disease - "A condition or tendency, as of society, regarded as abnormal and harmful". If we are not a disease by harming the planet then what are we? We're certainly not doing it any good.

Some people are more extreme than others and I would always be proactive but work within the law. Every viewpoint is valid as long as there is a principle behind it and people are not just following a trend.
 
> I'm going to college actually. At my age doesn't that at least say something >about my intellect and maturity?

Going to college at age 15 says something about intellect, but does not say anything about maturity.
If, for example, a 10 year old were a genius and going to college, does that make him/her mature?
There are many "college" aged people in college, who are definitely not mature.
Education level has nothing to do with maturity, nor does age, for that matter.
 
> I'm going to college actually. At my age doesn't that at least say something >about my intellect and maturity?

Going to college at age 15 says something about intellect, but does not say anything about maturity.
If, for example, a 10 year old were a genius and going to college, does that make him/her mature?
There are many "college" aged people in college, who are definitely not mature.
Education level has nothing to do with maturity, nor does age, for that matter.
 
> I'm going to college
> actually. At my age doesn't that at least say something about my intellect
> and maturity?

I congratulate you on being in college at age 15. That does say something of your intellect, but it does not say anything about maturity.

There are many people in college who are not mature...being in college you must have met some already.

Maturity is not based on either education or age.
 
your argument is well put and justified
however your generalizing too much

i belive evrything has a right to life and that killing a chicken is no different from killing a human.
i beleive this on a logical level however i still eat meat so i dont brag about the fact or enforce my veiws

if PETA do and they are Vegans then they are perfectly within there rights to say what they say. after all would you agree with someone saying they wish to destoy all animals?

they beleive this but in no way does it make them ignorant
 
> I congratulate you on being in college at age 15. That does say something
> of your intellect, but it does not say anything about maturity.

> There are many people in college who are not mature...being in college you
> must have met some already.

> Maturity is not based on either education or age.

Yeah, I suppose you're right about that. It's terrible how many people go there not really caring to learn anything. It's become a continuation of high school for a lot of people.
 
You've obviously put a lot of time & effort in to coming up with this argument, but i think you're tarring Morrissey with the PETA-Loving brush a bit too quickly. Fair enough PETA have picked him as one of their champions, he wrote a song called 'Meat Is Murder' which made a lot of people open their eyes up to the animal cruelty present in society. It doesn't mean he's sitting down for cosy dinners with Ingrid every night, & if he did disregard PETA's praise now then he'd appear to be two-faced. Everyone knows PETA isn't perfect, anyone with a mind of their own & who does research before spouting off views they claim to be their own would know that, yet the term 'cutting your nose off to spite your face' springs to mind. PETA aren't an evil corporation, it's all well & good to reel off a list of quotes from people, & list things that individuals working under the 'PETA' name have done wrong, but the fundamental message of PETA is that it's anti-cruelty. I believe in some of PETA's stances, but that doesn't mean that i'm going to listen to everything they say & become a mindless drone.

I understand what you're trying to do, but perhaps you should be waging this war against McDonalds or another corporation who really are 100% intent on the destruction & torture of animals. PETA aren't perfect, but if you agree with everything they say without even questioning it or researching it for yourself then that's your problem really. You have to pick your battles, & they seem to be swaying more toward the side of good than evil.
 
Re: Interestingly enough

David Attenborough has just about said the same thing of human beings, that we are a scourge on the face of the planet and that we should enforce stricter population control. It's in an article in today's Observer.
But despite my natural inclination to think that some of these comments from PETA are ludicrous, when i actually sit and think about it, the idea makes sense. Technically, we are an accident of evolution. If you are a religious person you would disagree, as you believe that God gave human beings supremacy. However, if you're not religious and you disagree, i'd be interested to know why. Have you sat back and thought that your opinions are actually influenced by hundreds of years of religious doctrine?
Indeed, the comment i initially considered to be the daftest of all, about the life of an ant and the life of a child, has some measure of truth. As is pointed out by David Attenborough in his new wildlife programme, if all vertebrates were to disappear, the planet would remain pretty much unscathed, but if invertebrates died out, the planet's ecosystems would collapse and the world would be devoid of life.
In truth, the only thing that sets us apart from other species is intelligence and the ability to use written language to communicate. I believe we're also unique in our ruthless attitude towards our own species ... i know the term 'survival of the fittest' applies, but this is only true of safeguarding an individual's genetic line. I'd like to hear of another species who go around killing at random and destroying their natural environment. In a sense, our intelligence has ruined our natural instinct.
Overall, there is no question that i would place the life of a human being above that of another animal, simply because that is a natural instinct; to protect your own. However, although i don't support PETA financially, i do think that they do a good job in highlighting the excessive cruelty of our species towards others and i hope they continue to do so; perhaps they could do better to clarify their statements in future though.
 
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