The Origin Of Morrissey Dissent

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
do you realise that these are fully grown men who consented to this and that Boz wearing drag goes back to the 1992 tour.
Of course I realise they are adults, but they are also on Morrissey's payroll and are paid to do as they are told. Out of interest, how do you think it would go down if they didn't consent?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Of course I realise they are adults, but they are also on Morrissey's payroll and are paid to do as they are told. Out of interest, how do you think it would go down if they didn't consent?
What would go down? Is he going to put a hit out on them? At worst, he'll sever ties with them, and they'll go on to work with someone else. Surely that would be a good thing for them if we're to believe he's an egomaniac control freak, non? Besides, they can't be that financially dependant on him since his albums don't sell well, and nobody goes to his shows anymore :rolleyes:

If they find the matching T-shirts/occasional drag so humiliating and objectionable but still go along with it for the money—even though it can be safely presumed none of them live in a state of penury, and they've probably amassed enough capital over the years of touring to live off comfortably or start a business of their own—wouldn't you agree that this would reflect poorly on their moral character (basically money-grubbing bootlickers), and hence they wouldn't be that worthy of our sympathy?

And why is it so preposterous to imagine that maybe they're not dutifully complying with his highness' orders out of fear of being put out on the street, but that Morrissey's band members share his sense of humor/theatricality?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Of course I realise they are adults, but they are also on Morrissey's payroll and are paid to do as they are told. Out of interest, how do you think it would go down if they didn't consent?
it's part of their jobs, Morrissey is their boss. it's his show concept.
what happens if you don't do your job?

they don't seem to mind too much seeing that all of them except for the bassist have been around for over a decade...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The current band members may not mind that much, but just as an audience member I'm not so keen on the result. Obviously, Morrissey has always had total power to eject anyone from the band at any second, but at least when Alain was still around speaking into the mic on occasion, and they had the ability to dress themselves, there was at least the illusion that everyone on stage was part of an actual band, rather than a solo singer with a bunch of hired goons. Even the way the current lot seems rooted to their assigned spots, with Jesse only ever creeping forward at pre-ordained 'guitar break' moments, then going immediately back to his place, feels off. I guess I just miss the group aesthetic, compared to the 'bossman and underlings' vibe.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The current band members may not mind that much, but just as an audience member I'm not so keen on the result. Obviously, Morrissey has always had total power to eject anyone from the band at any second, but at least when Alain was still around speaking into the mic on occasion, and they had the ability to dress themselves, there was at least the illusion that everyone on stage was part of an actual band, rather than a solo singer with a bunch of hired goons. Even the way the current lot seems rooted to their assigned spots, with Jesse only ever creeping forward at pre-ordained 'guitar break' moments, then going immediately back to his place, feels off. I guess I just miss the group aesthetic, compared to the 'bossman and underlings' vibe.

Agreed, it's very cringeworthy.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
It's fair to say though that his musicians enjoy a much greater profile than they would otherwise.

If he was that awful, they'd use him as a calling card & he'd have a revolving door.

Esp now that his reputation is in such a bad place - if they didn't have some affection for him it would be a blood bath by now.

Audiences not liking the look of it is reasonable, but I doubt they're fussed.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
Morrissey isn't rich enough to scare musicians into staying on his payroll.
He doesn't need to be rich (or even generous) because he knows that apart from Boz, his long-term solo musicians have no competing offers on the table. They leave him, they might have hopes of session work here and there or they might just end up working in property like Spencer. He has all the power.
 
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Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
it's part of their jobs, Morrissey is their boss. it's his show concept.
what happens if you don't do your job?

they don't seem to mind too much seeing that all of them except for the bassist have been around for over a decade...
Well, it beats "the mad-death of Camden Council", as Moz once referred to Alain's previous career.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
What would go down? Is he going to put a hit out on them? At worst, he'll sever ties with them, and they'll go on to work with someone else. Surely that would be a good thing for them if we're to believe he's an egomaniac control freak, non? Besides, they can't be that financially dependant on him since his albums don't sell well, and nobody goes to his shows anymore :rolleyes:

If they find the matching T-shirts/occasional drag so humiliating and objectionable but still go along with it for the money—even though it can be safely presumed none of them live in a state of penury, and they've probably amassed enough capital over the years of touring to live off comfortably or start a business of their own—wouldn't you agree that this would reflect poorly on their moral character (basically money-grubbing bootlickers), and hence they wouldn't be that worthy of our sympathy?

And why is it so preposterous to imagine that maybe they're not dutifully complying with his highness' orders out of fear of being put out on the street, but that Morrissey's band members share his sense of humor/theatricality?
It's not preposterous to imagine they enjoy it, no - but when you look at the long, long line of people who have been shoved out of camp Mozzer precisely for not obeying orders, you can't really pretend that his musicians don't know the score. Does that make them bootlickers? I wouldn't go that far because everyone has a right to earn a living and I like most of the band, but they are all undoubtedly "Yes Men". Morrissey is always saying that his solo musicians don't get the respect they deserve, so choosing to parade them in Speedos, bras and embarrassing slogan T-shirts seems like a strange decision. It was funny at first, and then it was strange, and then it was cringeworthy.
 
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I

Irish girl

Guest
Good post.👍 I personally haven’t stopped liking Morrissey, the man or the music. Ok, he might not be banging out classics like Vauxhall anymore, but how many singers/bands really are as good as they once were, nearly 40 years in to their career?

If you look at virtually anybody, & had to list their absolute classic output, most of it would be loaded towards the start of their careers, with maybe the odd ‘modern’ classic in there. Oasis are a great example. Or The Stones, U2, Pet Shop Boys...the list goes on.

The only person I can think of who is still delivering output that is as good as, or better than their earlier stuff is Nick Cave in my opinion.

You’re right though, why come on a forum & keep banging on about how much you hate someone nowadays. It’s like being divorced & finding a forum to go on to slag off your ex all the time. Just stop listening. I guess the emotional connection people feel with Morrissey is higher than with a lot of artists, so maybe people feel particularly upset, but move on.

And anyway, what he says isn’t really that bad, in fact I think a lot of it is true. But in this current age of the permanently offended, you can’t say anything. Everything has to be ‘woke’. Just ask JK Rowling.

Ricky Gervais said recently, ‘just because someone is offended, doesn’t mean they’re right’.
I don't like Ricky Gervais, James Corden or Douglas Murray.

Ricky Gervais has been accepted into the "truther" community because people think he is calling out the elites. Ricky Gervais is part of the establishment he is one of them and he is very wealthy. He is not the down to earth 'man if the people' salt of the earth type guy that people think he is. Also Ricky Gervais is an atheist and he isn't supportive of Christians neither Roman Catholics or Protestants and Calvinists.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
He doesn't need to be rich (or even generous) because he knows that apart from Boz, his long-term solo musicians have no competing offers on the table. They leave him, they might have hopes of session work here and there or they might just end up working in property like Spencer.

They have all done other things & Spencer was still kicking about music.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
If he was that awful, they'd use him as a calling card & he'd have a revolving door.

Esp now that his reputation is in such a bad place - if they didn't have some affection for him it would be a blood bath by now.

Audiences not liking the look of it is reasonable, but I doubt they're fussed.
add slave driver to his list of crimes please. morrissey forces poor submissive musicians to work for him naked. he breaks their will by feeding them popcorn coated in hallucinogenic drugs...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It's not preposterous to imagine they enjoy it, no - but when you look at the long, long line of people who have been shoved out of camp Mozzer precisely for not obeying orders, you can't really pretend that his musicians don't know the score. Does that make them bootlickers? I wouldn't go that far because everyone has a right to earn a living and I like most of the band, but they are all undoubtedly "Yes Men". Morrissey is always saying that his solo musicians don't get the respect they deserve, so choosing to parade them in Speedos, bras and embarrassing slogan T-shirts seems like a strange decision. It was funny at first, and then it was strange, and then it was cringeworthy.
maybe camp humor just isn't your thing.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It's fair to say though that his musicians enjoy a much greater profile than they would otherwise.
What greater profile exactly? I think being on a Morrissey fan site for too long inevitably distorts folk's perception of reality. You might argue it's somewhat true for Alain and Boz, but it's only because, in addition to Street, they're responsible for the majority of Morrissey's popular songs.

I'd bet good money that a casual Morrissey fan wouldn't be able to match Walker, Manzur, or Lopez's pictures with their names. Google Jesse Tobias and you'll get a handful of grainy pictures, half of them are of his time with Alanis Morissette.

Like I've already stated, I doubt working with Moz is so lucrative that people grudgingly put up with his shenanigans for the opportunities it opens up for them. If his current band members leave him to work with any other artist as session musicians, they'd get the same amount of exposure, which is practically zero, and probably the same pay. Sometimes it's the simplest theory that's true. Maybe they *gasp* like working with him?
 

Silent Reader

On Timeout
I think that the Pet Shop Boys actually got better. Behaviour and Very are better than their first two records but there is nostalgia and they had a different image that was more fitting with the pop music of the time then. Kings Cross is one of my favorite Pet Shop Boys songs but Being Boring is better. It's only in the past few records that it became more "hit and miss" to me.
They did get better for a while - Behaviour is my favourite album by them, but I agree, the last 3 albums have been ‘hit and miss’ - which is of course a Pet Shop Boys b-side in itself.
 
M

Musician

Guest
Before, Truck Driver and His Mate and Hit and Miss is a great single, and then the other version with the Before remixes is also great.
I think Will O' The Wisp from the latest one is a great companion to Kings Cross.
They did three records with the same producer and the next one will probably be a lot different.
I personally love Electric and this year's record.
 
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