The Skylarker Thread

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
Did he not give up his secret identity to some squeeze?
What do I know.
As you say we are all entitled to our opinion.
I think Tim Burton is all style and no substance so when coupled with a short Batman, the films dont have
a chance with me.
Regardless, we both like the comic.
Are you a comic fan Sykylarker?
I'm out of the loop these days. Can you recommend anything?

Agree except for in the case of Edward Scissorhands. This film had fully developed characters and a heart.
 

Johnny Barleycorn

Well-Known Member
Agree except for in the case of Edward Scissorhands. This film had fully developed characters and a heart.

Old jokes home...

Helena Bonham Carter arrives home, throws open the front door and shouts:

"Tim, where are you?"

"I'm in the kitchen!"

"Can I be in it too?"

My favourite Tim Burton film is Sleepy Hollow. It's reputation has slowly risen over the years.

Let's not forget what Burton would have given us if he had a crack at Superman...

qS11bj0.jpg
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
Old jokes home...

Helena Bonham Carter arrives home, throws open the front door and shouts:

"Tim, where are you?"

"I'm in the kitchen!"

"Can I be in it too?"

My favourite Tim Burton film is Sleepy Hollow. It's reputation has slowly risen over the years.

Let's not forget what Burton would have given us if he had a crack at Superman...

qS11bj0.jpg

Great joke. Ya, as long as she's his wife she'll be employed. Before Bonham Carter hooked up with Burton, she gave her best performance, imo, in A Room With a View--one of the most romantic films made. It was my first peak into turn of the century, British culture. I adore this scene...


That photo of Cage is hilarious. Is it real? Have never seen it before.

Sleepy Hollow was one of his better films, I agree. Alice in Wonderland? Horrible.
 
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!Viva Hate!

Well-Known Member
In the very wonderful Frank Miller 'Return of the Dark Knight', Batman duffs Superman up a treat (and good job too, Superman being the goverments puppy dog).
In my humble opinion, shortarse Keaton was an appaling Batman and the Tim Burton films, travesty upon travesty. Batman giving away his secret identity! Ludicrous.
I take it you're not a fan of the latest Bats trilogy?

It doesn't matter how short Keaton was...he had/has something no other actor in the role has had before or since - presence. Keaton is 5'10" while Kilmer, Clooney & Bale are all 6'0"...all a far cry from the 6'2" frame Batman is supposed to have...so if you're going by height, only Adam West fits the bill. Not to take anything away from Kilmer, who on occasion has flirted with brilliance in his career, but Keaton is the superior actor of the bunch and definitely has the most range...he says more with just his eyes in the first Batman than Bale was able to do with 3 films.

And not to be a snob, but it's called 'The Dark Knight Returns'...and yes, it is wonderful. They recently did an animated version of it with Peter Weller as Batman...which could have been great had someone told him he wasn't playing Robocop.

Yes, I'm aware...I think my copy fell apart. I still remember buying it at a comic shop in Minneapolis at 13...

You're entitled to your opinion, but you're wrong. Both of the Burton films were masterpieces, and Keaton's Wayne hardly "gave away" his identity. Keaton played the role with a conviction and finesse that I can't even articulate without shaking, that's how f***ing great he was in those films; any other opinion is heresy.

I saw them all in the theater and I detest them from start to finish. Overbearing, overblown, absolutely no sense of subtlety or playfulness...overacted, overserious, heavy-handed to the point of absurdity.

Other than that they were great...

Most of that is Nolan's fault...I really can't stand Nolan and find him to be so ridiculously overrated. One time I tried to watch 'Inception' with Lindsey and somehow it became a comedy.

"Ah, a dream within a dream?"
"No, a dream within a dream within a dream."
"It can't be done! That many dreams within dreams is too unstable!"

Or who could forget the gem:

"They come here to dream?"
Insert wise old African man - "No, they come here to wake up. The dream is reality to them...who are you to say otherwise?"

If the rumours are true and the movie will be based on Miller's The Dark Knight Returns we might well see an older actor as Batman. With a bit of CGI and deep shadow Clint Eastwood might be fun.

That isn't going to happen because they want to follow it up with a Justice League film in a couple years. From what I understand, though, Clint was the inspiration for The Killing Joke & Dark Knight Returns Batman so, it would have been great at one time.

I think it will be a loose adaptation of it. Borrowing the look and style & the main conflict between Batman & Superman without giving Batman the age & history he already had. Not to mention, I don't know how they would try explaining a one-armed, elderly Green Arrow in the 'Man of Steel' timeline. Lol.

Let's not forget what Burton would have given us if he had a crack at Superman...

qS11bj0.jpg

I would have loved to have seen that. As much as Nic Cage loves Superman, I don't imagine he would have treated the material with anything other than respect...plus, this was around the time Cage won his Oscar and was still considered a bankable star. It could have been great even though he is nothing like the comicbook Superman...Keaton did it with Burton, I think Cage could have. I still would have rather Reeve didn't get crippled and was able to make a better final film than The Quest For Peace. :(
 
S

Skylarker

Guest
Did he not give up his secret identity to some squeeze?

Yeah but it wasn't like he got a hard-on and randomly said, "hey by the way I'm Batman, baby."

I think Tim Burton is all style and no substance so when coupled with a short Batman, the films dont have
a chance with me.

I think that's true of his career now; but not initially. Now he's a parody of himself but I think that through the early 90s he was still brilliant.

Are you a comic fan Sykylarker?

No. Even when I was little I didn't care much about superheroes..not the DC/Marvel ones anyway, other than in basic distilled versions. I hate going to comic shops, the people there are creepy and obnoxious.

Regarding Batman, I am a huge fan of the old TV show and the Keaton films; albeit for different reasons. I also am a very big fan of the 90s cartoon, and while I do not enjoy the other films (Shumacher, Nolan, etc) I still see them when they come out because I think that Batman is a very interesting fictional character and I always hope that he will be presented in a new, exciting way because there is so much potential there. But it rarely happens.

He's really the only comic book character with any depth or volume or anything other than some kind of gimmicky superficial trait. He's marginally sociopathic yet also has an almost deranged obsession with destroying evil. I also find that he is the only superhero with interesting villains; I'm sure there are others out there but I don't care enough to make anything other than a cursory observation...as I say, comic book culture annoys and bores me.

Having said that, I have read several of the graphic novels, and I've also seen (I think) all the animated films, including the more recent ones. I think they are generally very good for what they are.

I guess that if I had to sum up why Keaton resonated with me so strongly in that role, though...it's because his take on the character is the only one I've ever seen where the dichotomy between human being and ruthless vigilante is perfectly balanced. He played the role not as a one trick pony hardass, not as a cartoon, not as a one-dimensional playboy, but as a deeply troubled yet innately human individual. He was simultaneously emotionless and vulnerable and it was completely believable.You want to befriend him, yet he scares the shit out of you. I have never ever seen anyone come close to owning a role -any role- as deftly and as intricately he does that one.

I'm out of the loop these days. Can you recommend anything?

My son has turned me on to a few things non-superhero that I really love. Black Hole, I Kill Giants...there's others too I'm sure that are a little less peripheral but nonetheless excellent.

It's something I could see myself delving into more deeply as time goes by, but not the superhero stuff.
 
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Peterb

Well-Known Member
Yeah but it wasn't like he got a hard-on and randomly said, "hey by the way I'm Batman, baby."



I think that's true of his career now; but not initially. Now he's a parody of himself but I think that through the early 90s he was still brilliant.



No. Even when I was little I didn't care much about superheroes..not the DC/Marvel ones anyway, other than in basic distilled versions. I hate going to comic shops, the people there are creepy and obnoxious.

Regarding Batman, I am a huge fan of the old TV show and the Keaton films; albeit for different reasons. I also am a very big fan of the 90s cartoon, and while I do not enjoy the other films (Shumacher, Nolan, etc) I still see them when they come out because I think that Batman is a very interesting fictional character and I always hope that he will be presented in a new, exciting way because there is so much potential there. But it rarely happens.

He's really the only comic book character with any depth or volume or anything other than some kind of gimmicky superficial trait. He's marginally sociopathic yet also has an almost deranged obsession with destroying evil. I also find that he is the only superhero with interesting villains; I'm sure there are others out there but I don't care enough to make anything other than a cursory observation...as I say, comic book culture annoys and bores me.

Having said that, I have read several of the graphic novels, and I've also seen (I think) all the animated films, including the more recent ones. I think they are generally very good for what they are.

I guess that if I had to sum up why Keaton resonated with me so strongly in that role, though...it's because his take on the character is the only one I've ever seen where the dichotomy between human being and ruthless vigilante is perfectly balanced. He played the role not as a one trick pony hardass, not as a cartoon, not as a one-dimensional playboy, but as a deeply troubled yet innately human individual. He was simultaneously emotionless and vulnerable and it was completely believable.You want to befriend him, yet he scares the shit out of you. I have never ever seen anyone come close to owning a role -any role- as deftly and as intricately he does that one.



My son has turned me on to a few things non-superhero that I really love. Black Hole, I Kill Giants...there's others too I'm sure that are a little less peripheral but nonetheless excellent.

It's something I could see myself delving into more deeply as time goes by, but not the superhero stuff.
Great reply! I will check out Black Hole and I Kill Giants.
Mark Millar is a big noise at the moment, he did Kick Ass which is quite an interesting take on the super hero thing. You might like to check out Alan Moore's Watchmen, which also an alternative take on the men in tights thing.
 

Johnny Barleycorn

Well-Known Member
Great reply! I will check out Black Hole and I Kill Giants.
Mark Millar is a big noise at the moment, he did Kick Ass which is quite an interesting take on the super hero thing. You might like to check out Alan Moore's Watchmen, which also an alternative take on the men in tights thing.

Moore's Miracleman is a very good example of his work too. It's been out of print for many years but can be found online. It's a stunning series imo.

I lost touch with comics in the early 80s but last year picked up a handful of the mainstream titles to see what was going on. They look great, but there's little to excite me storywise. Wafer thin ideas are stretched to breaking point.
 

Peterb

Well-Known Member
Moore's Miracleman is a very good example of his work too. It's been out of print for many years but can be found online. It's a stunning series imo.

I lost touch with comics in the early 80s but last year picked up a handful of the mainstream titles to see what was going on. They look great, but there's little to excite me storywise. Wafer thin ideas are stretched to breaking point.
Oh Johnny, I'm afraid I'll have to make you very jealous here. I have the complete Miracleman, as I bought them at the time. And you're right, it is a great work.
 

!Viva Hate!

Well-Known Member
Yeah but it wasn't like he got a hard-on and randomly said, "hey by the way I'm Batman, baby."

Right. Alfred is the one who outed him. Dick move, old chap.

No. Even when I was little I didn't care much about superheroes..not the DC/Marvel ones anyway, other than in basic distilled versions. I hate going to comic shops, the people there are creepy and obnoxious.

Comic books and comic book culture are inherently stupid. I love Batman. I know the majority of his major comic book story arcs...but I could never commit to trying to follow the comics faithfully because they are stupid. Sorry, but introducing crap like some guy named "Dollmaker" who cuts the Joker's face off is just stupid. What is even worse is the Joker coming back with his face belted over his head.

pFKVy6haniQ.jpg


See what I mean?

I just can't get behind crap like that.

He's really the only comic book character with any depth or volume or anything other than some kind of gimmicky superficial trait. He's marginally sociopathic yet also has an almost deranged obsession with destroying evil. I also find that he is the only superhero with interesting villains; I'm sure there are others out there but I don't care enough to make anything other than a cursory observation...as I say, comic book culture annoys and bores me.

I guess that if I had to sum up why Keaton resonated with me so strongly in that role, though...it's because his take on the character is the only one I've ever seen where the dichotomy between human being and ruthless vigilante is perfectly balanced. He played the role not as a one trick pony hardass, not as a cartoon, not as a one-dimensional playboy, but as a deeply troubled yet innately human individual. He was simultaneously emotionless and vulnerable and it was completely believable.You want to befriend him, yet he scares the shit out of you. I have never ever seen anyone come close to owning a role -any role- as deftly and as intricately he does that one.

That is why that scene from Batman Returns, to me, is more faithful of an adaptation of Batman than any other we've seen...

He literally has nothing to do, and wants to do nothing more, than just sit around in his office and wait for the Batsignal. It's brilliant.
 

Johnny Barleycorn

Well-Known Member
Oh Johnny, I'm afraid I'll have to make you very jealous here. I have the complete Miracleman, as I bought them at the time. And you're right, it is a great work.

I have the TPBs Peter. So nearly sold them when Marvel bought the character as I was expecting super-duper reprints and omnibus editions. Thank God I didn't. Marvel seem to have forgotten all about him.
 

Peterb

Well-Known Member
I have the TPBs Peter. So nearly sold them when Marvel bought the character as I was expecting super-duper reprints and omnibus editions. Thank God I didn't. Marvel seem to have forgotten all about him.
Have you caught any of Mark Millars stuff (Kick Ass, Nemesis, Wanted)? I'm not sure if he's any good or not.
I enjoy the violence but as for the main content I'm undecided.
By the way, what are TPB's?
Sorry Skylarker for chatting on your thread.
 
S

Skylarker

Guest
Sorry, but introducing crap like some guy named "Dollmaker" who cuts the Joker's face off is just stupid. What is even worse is the Joker coming back with his face belted over his head.

Seriously? Are you kidding me with that crap?


He literally has nothing to do, and wants to do nothing more, than just sit around in his office and wait for the Batsignal. It's brilliant.

 
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cornelius blaze

Boychild mustn't tremble!
Hello Mr Skylarker Sir, We finally got the 1st 8 episodes of season 5 to watch on DVD. I've been like Pinkman on a meth withdrawal for the past 2 weeks as i didn't have any new episodes to watch.

Yes, Keaton was a great Batman. The 1st Burton Batman hasn't really stood the test of time unlike Batman Returns.

I do think they will get back Bale as Batman (or maybe he is too expensive).

John Hamm is too old for Batman.

I'm not really one for Mark Millar, except his old stuff from 2000ad. Some of his The Ultimate's stories were interesting and Superman: red son.

The only 'recent' series i followed, somewhat was New X-Men by Grant Morrison. Most of the books i buy are reprints from stuff i had but got sadly thrown away.
 

!Viva Hate!

Well-Known Member
Yes, Keaton was a great Batman. The 1st Burton Batman hasn't really stood the test of time unlike Batman Returns.

One word: Prince.

I do think they will get back Bale as Batman (or maybe he is too expensive).

I don't think Bale wants to come back.

John Hamm is too old for Batman.

If they aren't going for a Batman origin story, he is perfect. Batman should be in his late 30s, early 40s.
 

cornelius blaze

Boychild mustn't tremble!
One word: Prince.

I read this quote from Kevin Smith the other day: [In response to Tim Burton claiming he doesn't read comics] Well that would explain Batman (1989).

I don't think Bale wants to come back.
Supposedly The Lone Ranger and The Man of Steel are going to be the Men from UNCLE. Could Armie be a blond Bruce Wayne?


If they aren't going for a Batman origin story, he is perfect. Batman should be in his late 30s, early 40s.
Okay, I'm convinced.

and Bryan Cranston is a great idea.

Dear Mr Skylarker, We got a DVD of the 1st 8 episodes of season 8 of Breaking Bad. We watched it over a weekend. Surprisingly, i am not liking Mr White at the moment.
 

!Viva Hate!

Well-Known Member
I read this quote from Kevin Smith the other day: [In response to Tim Burton claiming he doesn't read comics] Well that would explain Batman (1989).

Kevin Smith can go f*** himself with a cactus. He's a whiner and a hypocrite. Anyone who thought it was a good idea to write a script that makes Lex Luthor into a Kryptonian space cop tracking a fugitive Superman has no business trashing ANY superhero film. Ever.
 
Kevin Smith can go f*** himself with a cactus. He's a whiner and a hypocrite. Anyone who thought it was a good idea to write a script that makes Lex Luthor into a Kryptonian space cop tracking a fugitive Superman has no business trashing ANY superhero film. Ever.

Smith f***ing sucks. One good film 20 years ago and total shit since.
 
really? if I were to grade the films he's directed:
Clerks - A+
Dogma - A
Chasing Amy - A-
Red State - B+
Mallrats - B
Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back - B-
Zack and Miri Make a Porno - C+
Clerks II - C-
Jersey Girl - D
Cop Out - F

I enjoyed Mallrats but it was not a good film the way Clerks was. And you could tell that even between Clerks and Mallrats his ego had skyrocketed. Chasing Amy is the worst dogshit ever filmed. Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back was just...meh. Maybe ten minutes of funny stuff. Dogma was just dumb.

I did really like Clerks 2, but it's dependent on a previous original work.

I have never seen the Jersey Girl or Zak and Miri. Don't plan to, either.
 
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