Was Johnny wrong to leave The Smiths?

butley

Well-Known Member
I think his reason for leaving was because it was becoming too stressful but I also believe he started to think he was more important than Morrissey. I think he started thinking the whispers were true. I've had conversations with people who say Morrissey would be nothing without Johnny Marr whereas I think the exact opposite. Mark Simpson in Saint Morrissey, and I'm paraphrasing, said such was the magic of Moz that he was pulling the universe towards himself and he would have become an icon regardless of who he collaborated with. Don't get me wrong Johnny would have forged a good career due to his supernatural skills but really that is what he forged after The Smiths. Morrissey went on to greater heights but Johnny certainly didn't. There's no denying Morrissey had a fair few moments in his solo career that were of equal cultural significance as The Smiths whereas Johnny got nowhere near.
 
I think his reason for leaving was because it was becoming too stressful but I also believe he started to think he was more important than Morrissey. I think he started thinking the whispers were true. I've had conversations with people who say Morrissey would be nothing without Johnny Marr whereas I think the exact opposite. Mark Simpson in Saint Morrissey, and I'm paraphrasing, said such was the magic of Moz that he was pulling the universe towards himself and he would have become an icon regardless of who he collaborated with. Don't get me wrong Johnny would have forged a good career due to his supernatural skills but really that is what he forged after The Smiths. Morrissey went on to greater heights but Johnny certainly didn't. There's no denying Morrissey had a fair few moments in his solo career that were of equal cultural significance as The Smiths whereas Johnny got nowhere near.

As alluded to in Tony Fletcher's book, the final straw for Johnny appears to be the shift in position of himself as Morrissey's equal. Marr effectively running the band from day one, well versed in acting on the many whims of his partner, whatever the fallout may be, to then find himself isolated and the drummer taking his spot as Morrissey's confidante.

Johnny turns up to the Stretham sessions burned out from all the Moz drama over the years and the big fallout over Ken Friedman where he told Morrissey he was leaving the band and then has his drummer telling him that they're doing a Cilla Black cover.

No contact between Moz and Marr after that uneasy session, where Johnny is reduced to the role of almost a session player and then he reads in the music press that he's apparently left the Smiths, his own band - you can't really blame him for thinking "f*** this" actually yeah I have.
 
I think his reason for leaving was because it was becoming too stressful but I also believe he started to think he was more important than Morrissey. I think he started thinking the whispers were true. I've had conversations with people who say Morrissey would be nothing without Johnny Marr whereas I think the exact opposite. Mark Simpson in Saint Morrissey, and I'm paraphrasing, said such was the magic of Moz that he was pulling the universe towards himself and he would have become an icon regardless of who he collaborated with. Don't get me wrong Johnny would have forged a good career due to his supernatural skills but really that is what he forged after The Smiths. Morrissey went on to greater heights but Johnny certainly didn't. There's no denying Morrissey had a fair few moments in his solo career that were of equal cultural significance as The Smiths whereas Johnny got nowhere near.
I'm pretty sure that Johnny Marr, talented though he is, does not have supernatural powers. :) Preternatural, possibly. But I do agree that while Johnny had talent in bucketloads, Moz had pixie dust. Also agree about their subsequent careers. Still don't think Moz would have got noticed in the first place without Johnny, though. It was such a perfect storm of musical influences, personalities and ambition - the stars really did align, and I don't think 1982 Morrissey could have achieved that on his own.
 
I'm pretty sure that Johnny Marr, talented though he is, does not have supernatural powers. :) Preternatural, possibly. But I do agree that while Johnny had talent in bucketloads, Moz had pixie dust. Also agree about their subsequent careers. Still don't think Moz would have got noticed in the first place without Johnny, though. It was such a perfect storm of musical influences, personalities and ambition - the stars really did align, and I don't think 1982 Morrissey could have achieved that on his own.

I agree. Gosh this thread is so civilised.
 
It's been amusing to me how many people have tried in the past to dismiss Johnny's post-Smiths career, when it has been massively successful.

I bet he is very happy with how his career has gone since and the fact that he has tended to move from project to project suggests that he is being truthful when he says that The Smiths was never likely to be a long term thing.
 
I think if Johnny hadn't left the Smiths, he'd probably have had several mental breakdowns by now due to Morrissey's jealous/paranoid/controlling/plain baffling behaviour, walking out of planned video shoots/recording sessions/TV appearances/tours, etc and sacking anyone who got close to him, not paying monies owed and leaving Marr to deal with the chaos. It sucks for us as fans, as we might have got some more killer songs, but I'm 100% sure that getting out was the best decision for Johnny, and that he is much happier as a result. He gets to play with numerous bands/artists, has his own solo career, does film scores etc. Plus Morrissey gets to be completely in control of his own solo career, and can dress up his hired goons in speedos, women or anything else he fancies, so they've both come well out of it.
 
Ask Johnny or read his book (Anonymous sums it up nicely a couple of posts above) he was absolutely right to leave. Whether it should have been permanent or bringing the situation to a head well only Johnny knows how he felt and, as much as I wish they have written more together, sometimes you just have to walk away for your own health.

Personally I think Morrissey and Marr had loads left to write together, they were only getting started.
 
Should Johnny have stuck around? No, time was called on the Smiths run and they'd taken it about as far as it could then go. Should he have ever come back, a little older, a few more influences, more great riffs? Well, that's debatable - but it's also a moot point since Moz wouldn't have had that happen.
 
I don’t know about right or wrong but I do t think it had to be the way it was and that both didn’t react well or handle it well. I do think morrissey probably didn’t appreciate how much marr was takingmon in terms of arranging tours but I also d t think marr appreciated how difficult things like countless interviews are and that there actually work. I do t think he realized the pressure of being so scrutinized. I do think that marrs partying and insecurity at not feeling like morrisseys equal caused some behavior from him that caused them to split by yats not to pretend that morrissey is an easy person to work with. As to marrs work after the smiths I don’t think anyone can argue it as being poor but I do t think he ever satisfied smiths fans with his post smiths work the way morrissey did. That might not have been the point for him obviously but it’s for sure left some old fans a little bummed. Also when you join groups that are already established it’s hard to see his influence and role and to gnot he him appropriate credit
 
Well Johnny didn't stay in the same genre whereas Morrissey did so it's obvious as Smiths fans we're more likely to follow Morrissey's route rather than Johnny's musically. The same reason a lot of people are f***ed off with the latter day Morrissey direction.

The problem The 'future' Smiths had was Morrissey was hell bent on keeping the same musical format while a departure might have been better - aside of all the nutty behavioural stuff. The Smiths are my favourite band but how much of the same can you wring out before it loses something and diminishes everything else you've done? They'd have needed to be more experimental in the future to save Johnny's marbles and that would never have happened so he was right to go.
 
The old saw is that most groups get about five good years. The Smiths' five were nigh-on impeccable. It was clear from Morrissey's early solo work and the projects Johnny chose to do throughout much of the next 20 years that their artistic kinship had reached a natural term. Johnny has begun to play music in the last four or so years that calls back to his post-punk roots, but he still tends to be a moving target in his different partnerships (e.g., the Maxine Peak collaboration). While Morrissey has ventured into more adventurous musical climes in recent years (leaving to the individual whether these were mostly successful or mostly not), he has been less pliable in deviating from his "template" and more infrequent in his personnel changes.

For that matter, I tend to think their latter day worldviews make any kind of meaningful future collaboration a bridge too far.
 
I wish they had toured "Strangeways". Would've been great to hear how they did those songs live.
 
There's an old interview with Q, (I think) from around 2002 and they ask Morrissey, "what were you doing 15 years ago?" and he says "planning 15 more Smiths albums."

I paraphrase but that's the jist of it.

Anyway I think it it sums up where he stood in relation to Johnny in 1987.
 
It's been amusing to me how many people have tried in the past to dismiss Johnny's post-Smiths career, when it has been massively successful.

I bet he is very happy with how his career has gone since and the fact that he has tended to move from project to project suggests that he is being truthful when he says that The Smiths was never likely to be a long term thing.
Yes, I would say Johnny definitely got the career he wanted, although not perhaps the career people expected him to have.
 
The dissolution of The Smiths when they did couldn't have been better timing.They gave us enough of a catalogue to enjoy and certainly have longevity as an iconic band.Could they have put out some more great work? of course but for how long? other than the obvious musical contributions Marr calling it quits was the best thing he could've done for "the Smiths" as a whole and certainly for Morrissey. I don't think Morrissey himself would've known when to call it quits..
 
No. He wasn't wrong. He was asked to perform duties that he never signed up for, up to and including dealing with Morrissey's histrionics.
It's shocking that he hung in there long enough to make Strangeways. As for the "More important than Morrissey" bullshit, well. I have two words to sum up the importance of a great guitarist in terms of quality and public interest.

Jesse Tobias.
 
No. He wasn't wrong. He was asked to perform duties that he never signed up for, up to and including dealing with Morrissey's histrionics.
It's shocking that he hung in there long enough to make Strangeways. As for the "More important than Morrissey" bullshit, well. I have two words to sum up the importance of a great guitarist in terms of quality and public interest.

Jesse Tobias.

In case of Johnny and Morrissey one was as important as the other. A great and special frontman is important and rare. At least Johnny knew as much, that's why he deliberately searched for this special person. Moz certainly filled that role, difficulties aside.
 
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