Was Morrissey in love with Johnny Marr?

[Anonymous]

the only thing 'born dead' was the successful career Johnny thought he was going to have after he broke up the Smiths.

Agreed ! A+ on that one K.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Yes, of course it was Morrissey's choice to do the Cilla Black song. If you've read any of the books about the Smiths, you'll find that Morrissey often used Johnny to communicate to the band, but all of a sudden it was now Mike communicating Morrissey's directives instead of Johnny.

that's only if you believe what he's written in his book 'Set The Boy Free'.

 

[Eldritch]

the only thing 'born dead' was the successful career Johnny thought he was going to have after he broke up the Smiths.

I think he's pretty much had the career he wanted to. Why do you think he's unhappy with the way things have gone?

 

[Amy]

that's only if you believe what he's written in his book 'Set The Boy Free'.

I believe Johnny but I also think that circumstance (Mike being the messenger boy) was inevitable due to the tensions between Morrissey and Marr at that time. Morrissey couldn't really have used Andy as an intermediary, for example, because Andy was Johnny's childhood friend and not about to start giving him orders. Who was left?

So, on one side, we have a situation where Johnny was overworked, fed up of Morrissey's histrionics and felt undervalued /"pushed out of the band". On the other side, Morrissey was convinced that Johnny, at this time, harboured private ambitions to be a big solo star and was being lured away by "malign influences" who urged him to chuck Moz and move on to glory. In the midst of communication problems between the 2 geniuses of the band, Joyce, ever the opportunist. steps in and makes it all worse. I don't see anything new here (highly implausible "affair" aside) - just the sad disintegration of the Smiths due to matters which could have been resolved if both Morrissey and Marr had grown up a bit and talked it out.

 

[Deleted member 1074]

I think he's pretty much had the career he wanted to. Why do you think he's unhappy with the way things have gone?

Because in spite of being acclaimed by some, he’s still a mostly unknown musician with mediocre success who spent most of his career as a glorified session player.

 

[Eldritch]

Because in spite of being acclaimed by some, he’s still a mostly unknown musician with mediocre success who spent most of his career as a glorified session player.

If that bothered him, then he probably would have started making solo albums earlier than 2013 instead of joining bands like The The, Modest Mouse, Cribs etc. Certainly he has always seemed more satisfied with his lot than Morrissey, who is always grumbling about record companies, charts, media etc.

 

[Deleted member 1074]

If that bothered him, then he probably would have started making solo albums earlier than 2013 instead of joining bands like The The, Modest Mouse, Cribs etc. Certainly he has always seemed more satisfied with his lot than Morrissey, who is always grumbling about record companies, charts, media etc.

He did. He tried and failed massively with a best forgotten album called ‘Boomslang’.

 

[Halloway]

He did. He tried and failed massively with a best forgotten album called ‘Boomslang’.

Though it's perhaps worth noting that the forgettable Boomslang was released fifteen years ago, whereas Morrissey's most forgettable album was released just twelve months ago.

 

[Amy]

Because in spite of being acclaimed by some, he’s still a mostly unknown musician with mediocre success who spent most of his career as a glorified session player.

but why would it bother Johnny that he isn't a worldwide star? He was - he still is - the music man behind The Smiths and the most revered "indie" guitarist of his generation. That's his legacy and he seems happy with it. I don't think he yearns for tremendous solo stardom this late in the game.

 

[Peppermint]

but why would it bother Johnny that he isn't a worldwide star? He was - he still is - the music man behind The Smiths and the most revered "indie" guitarist of his generation. That's his legacy and he seems happy with it. I don't think he yearns for tremendous solo stardom this late in the game.

That's it exactly. People seem to assume he wanted to be Morrissey. Nothing, I suspect, could be further from the truth.

 

[Deleted member 1074]

Though it's perhaps worth noting that the forgettable Boomslang was released fifteen years ago, whereas Morrissey's most forgettable album was released just twelve months ago.

Forgettable according to whom? You? You remembered it enough to bring it up. That’s more than you were able to muster for ‘Boomslang’, isn’t it?

Did you listen to it? Did you pay money for it? Did you see him on tour for it? What did it chart? How much money did he make from it? Are you currently posting on a website dedicated to him?

Enough said.

but why would it bother Johnny that he isn't a worldwide star? He was - he still is - the music man behind The Smiths and the most revered "indie" guitarist of his generation. That's his legacy and he seems happy with it. I don't think he yearns for tremendous solo stardom this late in the game.

He doesn’t have a choice in the matter, honestly...and if you really want to get down to brass tacks “most revered indie guitarist of his generation” amounts to jack and shit and jack just left town. If he didn’t want stardom, he wouldn’t have tried to reform The Smiths a few years back only to get rejected by Morrissey. This is a business. The goal is to get paid, otherwise Johnny would be sitting in his undies uploading his songs to SoundCloud for free. He comes from a generation that grew up with rockstars. That is what you aspired to be. You don’t get to be one of those being stifled by an effeminate mama’s boy with abandonment issues that wants to turn your rock band into a 60s girl group. He tried to be a rocker. He failed. Now the only thing that gets him any attention is talking about The Smiths, writing books about The Smiths, playing songs by The Smiths, and writing songs that are cheap knock-offs of The Smiths.

That's it exactly. People seem to assume he wanted to be Morrissey. Nothing, I suspect, could be further from the truth.

No one said he wanted to be Morrissey. What was said was that he wanted to be a successful solo musician. He isn’t that either.

 

[Peppermint]

Forgettable according to whom? You? You remembered it enough to bring it up. That’s more than you were able to muster for ‘Boomslang’, isn’t it?

Did you listen to it? Did you pay money for it? Did you see him on tour for it? What did it chart? How much money did he make from it? Are you currently posting on a website dedicated to him?

Enough said.



He doesn’t have a choice in the matter, honestly...and if you really want to get down to brass tacks “most revered indie guitarist of his generation” amounts to jack and shit and jack just left town. If he didn’t want stardom, he wouldn’t have tried to reform The Smiths a few years back only to get rejected by Morrissey. This is a business. The goal is to get paid, otherwise Johnny would be sitting in his undies uploading his songs to SoundCloud for free. He comes from a generation that grew up with rockstars. That is what you aspired to be. You don’t get to be one of those being stifled by an effeminate mama’s boy with abandonment issues that wants to turn your rock band into a 60s girl group. He tried to be a rocker. He failed. Now the only thing that gets him any attention is talking about The Smiths, writing books about The Smiths, playing songs by The Smiths, and writing songs that are cheap knock-offs of The Smiths.



No one said he wanted to be Morrissey. What was said was that he wanted to be a successful solo musician. He isn’t that either.

Well, that all depends on your definition of successful. Maybe he's just using a different dictionary to you. If I'd had a 35-year career in music that included chart-topping albums, revered status as an indie guitarist of phenomenal skill, collaborations with a long list of other respected musicians, scoring two Hollywood movies and launching a third solo album at the age of 54 to critical acclaim, I'd think I was doing okay.

 

[The Moz]

Well, that all depends on your definition of successful. Maybe he's just using a different dictionary to you. If I'd had a 35-year career in music that included chart-topping albums, revered status as an indie guitarist of phenomenal skill, collaborations with a long list of other respected musicians, scoring two Hollywood movies and launching a third solo album at the age of 54 to critical acclaim, I'd think I was doing okay.

IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK!

The Moz says this if it wasn’t for The Moz, Johnny Marr would be slinging hash part time down at the Waffle House by the interstate.

If you smell what The Moz is cooking.

 

[Deleted member 1074]

Well, that all depends on your definition of successful. Maybe he's just using a different dictionary to you. If I'd had a 35-year career in music that included chart-topping albums, revered status as an indie guitarist of phenomenal skill, collaborations with a long list of other respected musicians, scoring two Hollywood movies and launching a third solo album at the age of 54 to critical acclaim, I'd think I was doing okay.

Is this dictionary from Candyland by chance?

Chart topping albums with Morrissey as The Smiths. How many chart topping albums has Johnny had without Morrissey? Zero. How many has Morrissey had? If the answer is more than zero, which it is, then your point is moot. Respect and critical acclaim won’t buy you a cup of coffee. Johnny is not a success. Johnny is wasted potential. I don’t know why this is so hard for people to accept.

 

[g23]

He did. He tried and failed massively with a best forgotten album called ‘Boomslang’.

I did find it pretty funny when The Messenger came out and was lauded as Johnny Marr's debut solo album! Uh... What? I remember Boomslang and the one or two decent songs on it.

 

[Halloway]

I did find it pretty funny when The Messenger came out and was lauded as Johnny Marr's debut solo album! Uh... What? I remember Boomslang and the one or two decent songs on it.

Technically, 'Messenger' was his first solo album as 'Boomslang' was by 'Johnny Marr + The Healers.' 'Down On the Corner' is an excellent song.

 

[g23]

Technically, 'Messenger' was his first solo album as 'Boomslang' was by 'Johnny Marr + The Healers.'

"Technically" yes, and the Healers. And what about his new band? Johnny and the Talented hipsters just sounds too bulky I guess.
It was still the Johnny Marr show. If your name is followed by "and the" it's a solo album.

 

[Amy]

If he didn’t want stardom, he wouldn’t have tried to reform The Smiths a few years back only to get rejected by Morrissey. This is a business. The goal is to get paid, otherwise Johnny would be sitting in his undies uploading his songs to SoundCloud for free. He comes from a generation that grew up with rockstars. That is what you aspired to be. You don’t get to be one of those being stifled by an effeminate mama’s boy with abandonment issues that wants to turn your rock band into a 60s girl group. He tried to be a rocker. He failed. Now the only thing that gets him any attention is talking about The Smiths, writing books about The Smiths, playing songs by The Smiths, and writing songs that are cheap knock-offs of The Smiths.

Johnny has repeatedly said that he had no intentions of "dragging (The Smiths) around the world until they became U2." Even if we assume that he yearned to be Keith Richards all along - why then did he do the opposite with Electronic? Why did he session for years instead of forming another guitar band?

Fans rake Johnny over the coals for his lack of ambition after the Smiths, not lack of success. Many of us felt that he could and should have done more but for some reason he didn't want to - which comes back to what Peppermint, Eldritch and I were trying to say. Whatever you might think of his choices, Johnny Marr did what he wanted and he comes across like someone who is happy with those choices. He isn't posting endless screeds about how all the world's record labels are trying to bring him down, wearing "Free Johnny" badges in perpetual victimhood or crying over chart positions like a 50-year old child. He's just getting on with it and he seems happy.

 

[Amy]

I did find it pretty funny when The Messenger came out and was lauded as Johnny Marr's debut solo album! Uh... What? I remember Boomslang and the one or two decent songs on it.

I thought the name change on the album was a way of trying to bury/disown Boomslang.
He still calls his backing band, the Healers.

 

[g23]

I thought the name change on the album was a way of trying to bury/disown Boomslang.
He still calls his backing band, the Healers.

That's a dick move on his part. And he doesn't have too many in his long history.