What could've been a masterstroke with "Israel"

g23

Always crashing in the same car
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I think morrissey has been bought off though, I think he's so insecure he likes anyone who likes him, as the above poster said.
It's sad really, for someone who claims to be so independent he's so needy.
Replace Morrissey with Trump in this statement. And hey! we can even stick to the topic of Israel in this case.
 

Peppermint

Well-Known Member
i can agree with that. in addition i would say that the "you" is the moz(es) looking for a promised land, i.e. israel, that is so different to the catholic culture with its sexual restrictions that he grew up in. so in the first verse i'd say there is someone trying to lure him to israel, the place where "you", i.e. moz(es), can enjoy his body, and moz(es) is thinking about that offer, also its downsides.
moz(es) is also complaining about the bad treatment he receives "in other climes".
the "virgin priests" stand for catholicism that oppressed every sexual impulse in his youth.
so it's a personal song, a little bit ironic, about the "homelessness-theme" running through the album.

Mozes :lbf:
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
I have a theory about Israel. I don't think it's about politics at all. I think it's about gay rights and sex - in particular, gay sex and relationships within oppressive cultures - eg the Middle East, but also referencing his own Catholic upbringing. Let's face it, half this album is about sex, it seems. Tel Aviv is known for its liberal approach to homosexuality and has been dubbed the 'gay capital of the Middle East'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel

Here's my interpretation. He makes the theme clear from the very beginning:

"You realize, if you're happy
Jesus sends you straight to hell...
...And should you dare enjoy your body
Here tolls Hades' welcome bell"

Then he says Israel has found a way to simply accept people as they are:
"You've found a middle-course existence
We're all bones and flesh and shell"

Then we have:
"I can't answer for what armies do
They are not you"
- ie this is not about the political/military situation in Israel/Palestine

And then
"In other climes, they bitch and whine
Just because you're not like them...
...The sky is dark for many others
They want it dark for you as well"
- I think this refers in particular to the other middle-eastern countries who, despite the Arab Spring, still take a hardline, ultra-conservative approach to homosexuality and would like Israel to 'toe the line'.

Then he brings back the themes from the beginning - ie human nature, judgemental religions:
"Nature gave you every impulse
Who are virgin priests to tell
Who/how to love
How to live"

CONTEXT STATEMENT: I am neither a bot nor a Morrissey apologist (you can check my previous posts as proof!) - just someone interested in open debate. In fact I loathed WPINOYB and YOR. I think bits of this album are absolutely dire (Who Will Protect Us, I Bury the Living, I Wish you Lonely). But I do think this song is stunningly beautiful and incredibly moving. I also think it hints at some of the torment he's suffered through his own 'humasexuality'. It's a pity that because of his almost pathological need to troll, it will not get the acclaim it should (despite what I believe is the real message, he knew fine well what the reaction would be to calling a song Israel).

Anyway, that's my take on it. Opinions?
I too after a few listens take this to be the meaning as well, and of course Israel can also be used as a man’s name. I think of this song in a similar way as I do to Scandinavia in that the geographical reference hides the true intent of the song. I’m surprised not a single reviewer picked up on it.
 

Peppermint

Well-Known Member
I too after a few listens take this to be the meaning as well, and of course Israel can also be used as a man’s name. I think of this song in a similar way as I do to Scandinavia in that the geographical reference hides the true intent of the song. I’m surprised not a single reviewer picked up on it.

I know. Just the name of the song caused this hysterical, knee-jerk response that it was all about clunky politics, but actually there is very little to substantiate that. And when you read it in this way, it seems so obvious that it's hard to see how it was missed.
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
To be fair, though, Morrissey's grasp of both domestic and world politics is pretty childlike. It's hard to accuse him of making pointed political statements when all he's said is that Israeli people are very nice and we shouldn't boycott their country. You could say that it's naive and he should educate himself better, and you might have a point. You could also argue that he's being deliberately provocative by being so simplistic, but I'm not sure that's the same thing as holding radical views, which would imply that he'd thought about it in some depth.

I honestly don't hear much that is political in this song - to me, he's just singing about the country from his own deep-seated point of self-interest (which is very typical of him). However, I do agree that he's got long-standing form for tin-eared pronouncements and I'm sure he knew at some level that the subject of the song would upset people.

Agree with a lot you say here, Peppermint.

But not totally with this:

“ to me, he's just singing about the country from his own deep-seated point of self-interest (which is very typical of him). “

You could say, which I do, he is singing about the subject from his own deep-seated selffinterest. As you said.
But what is wrong with that?

He expressed HIS feelings and insights.
NOT feelings and insights from others which he has no affinity with.

He sings about the subjects he most likely knows the most about. That INCLUDES himself. Very honest and true to himself, anyways in this case.

Isn’t that the mission of an artist?

At the other hand I can’t think of any artist in “popular” music who tackled so many different subjects in his music and I doubt it is always only about him.

Almost sociological. He sings like it is all about him but I am not sure.
I got that feeling again listening to “Something Is Squeezing My Skull” about addiction to prescribed pills.

Can be totally from his own experience, the way he sings it, but it is a f***ing big issue destroying people all around the globe.

There are more instances, a lot.
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
U

URBANUS

Guest
The backing of jewish power has always been good for business yet the majority of people still claim jews have no power at all. I find it fascinating that most people on Solo who always said I was wrong about the jews now clearly can see for themselves that I was right and that indeed even their own idol became one of their toys.

But of course the jews have no power at all in this world!

LOL
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
Why did they give him the keys in the first place? Because of a concert or two?

They really must like him, don’t you think?
Something similar happened in LA, when they declared 10 November Morrissey day. Did you see him dance in the elevator? So funny :D
 
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U

URBANUS

Guest
They really must like him, don’t you think?
Something similar happened in La when they declared 10 November Morrissey day. Did you see him dance in the elevator? So funny :D

He wasn't dancing he was jumping cause he was in Hitler mode:



I believe Moz and Hitler are more alike than we could ever imagine.
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
He wasn't dancing he was jumping cause he was in Hitler mode:



I believe Moz and Hitler are more alike than we could ever imagine.

I believe Adolf is dancing here to a reggae tune.
Moz would never.
There are some more differences which I would point at, but Urbie you wouldn’t take that from me. :squiffy:
 
U

URBANUS

Guest
I believe Adolf is dancing here to a reggae tune.
Moz would never.
There are some more differences which I would point at, but Urbie you wouldn’t take that from me. :squiffy:

Hitler is dancing while pretending to strangle an unruly dutchman who ran across fields on clogs that got stuck in the mud between a small town and Amsterdam.

Am I making myself clear here?

You either stand up for yourself or die and death is glory and right now your countrymen in South Africa are getting slaughtered by race enemies and what the fook are you doing about it?
 
U

URBANUS

Guest
Guess who lost his foreskin when a grown man and that hurts......

Get a ski slope nose job Misery Morrissey to complete it!
 
U

URBANUS

Guest
Hitler is dancing while pretending to strangle an unruly dutchman who ran across fields on clogs that got stuck in the mud between a small town and Amsterdam.

Am I making myself clear here?

You either stand up for yourself or die and death is glory and right now your countrymen in South Africa are getting slaughtered by race enemies and what the fook are you doing about it?

IN ffs.

Why does every post change on here after you posted it?
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
Hitler is dancing while pretending to strangle an unruly dutchman who ran across fields on clogs that got stuck in the mud between a small town and Amsterdam.

Am I making myself clear here?

You either stand up for yourself or die and death is glory and right now your countrymen in South Africa are getting slaughtered by race enemies and what the fook are you doing about it?

Nothing.
If that would be the “issue” for me, I would go.
But I am old, sick and don’t see well enough anymore. I would be dead meat in an instant.

By the way far more “fellow” country men were slaughtered by the Brits in the past.

Didn’t Adolf copy the concentration camps from the Brits, who invented that?

My fellow contry men are here in my country and if I could be of any use in defending my country I would.

I doubt if I would be of any use.
But I will defend the democratic rights of anyone here speaking his mind out about anything.
 
U

URBANUS

Guest
Nothing.
If that would be the “issue” for me, I would go.
But I am old, sick and don’t see well enough anymore. I would be dead meat in an instant.

By the way far more “fellow” country men were slaughtered by the Brits in the past.

Didn’t Adolf copy the concentration camps from the Brits, who invented that?

My fellow contry men are here in my country and if I could be of any use in defending my country I would.

I doubt if I would be of any use.
But I will defend the democratic rights of anyone here speaking his mind out about anything.

You are enlightened and a man of wisdom indeed.

As always my deepest respect!
 
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