A serious question for vegetarian people?

Emotional Guide Dog

Chairman Of The Bored
Hi,

I want to start by saying this isn't me having an anti vegetarian rant. I seriously want to know how you feel about the (remote) possibility of certain things happening:

Let's say that the whole world en masse becomes vegan right now. Almost immediately, at least 10 species of cattle/pigs/poultry are made extinct save for some in zoos.

So, no-one eats meat anymore but there are 10 species (or more) of animal that no longer exist.

Would you consider that to be a victory?

(The reason I mention animal rights people is I got into an argument about horse racing the other day where I pitched a similar question. Through some of my arguments I actually got a couple of people to change their position on the subject, that almost NEVER happens.)
 
Nope.
 
If those 10 species you are going on about would die out, they probably wouldn't exist in the first place if humans had never eaten meat? So there's natural selection for you. But I must add that your question is unreasonable since the whole Worlds population will never become vegan anytime soon.
 
If those 10 species you are going on about would die out, they probably wouldn't exist in the first place if humans had never eaten meat? So there's natural selection for you. But I must add that your question is unreasonable since the whole Worlds population will never become vegan anytime soon.

Good points.

I agree it's an unreasonable question but I find reason doesn't have much place in an argument!
 
Those animals are conceived, individually, only to be killed and eaten. They are not natural creations. Each individual animal in existence at the time of this mass conversion would die or be eaten, and then there would be no more of them.

Your question is akin to comparing birth control (not abortion, methods that prevent conception) to genocide. Not making somebody exist is not the same thing as making them exist and then killing them.
 
A huge proportion of breeding of meat animals is done by artificial insemination. Just stop doing AI and lots of food species will become extinct. The species we're discussing don't contribute anything particularly useful to the ecosystem, and wild versions of them or their anscetors would still exist.
We could keep milk cows and just treat them ethically. People could keep pet chickens in the back yard for eggs.
I'd say it would be a victory.
 
well, I am not a vegetarian, but I think cows would be sticking around even if people did not eat them
first of all, there is cow's milk which is great stuff :yum:
and well, cows are great people to be honest :blushing:
 
People wouldn't have chickens for eggs and cows for milk if they were Vegan though.

I agree with previous sentiments, in that a species dying off is a lot less cruel than a species existing purely to experience a short life of misery and to eventually be murdered.

Also I would say that these 10 species that would disappear, could still be maintained ethically. I would have a little more faith in the human race if everyone were to become vegan, and believe we would maintain these species out of compassion for our fellow creatures, rather than simply out of greed (i.e. for their meat).
 
and well, cows are great people to be honest :blushing:

Cows are great people, but have you ever hung around one? They're kinda dumdums. I think because they're thinking about stuff while the great people in them are out and about being great. :p They're really gentle though. I love the company of cows.
 
Cows are great people, but have you ever hung around one? They're kinda dumdums. I think because they're thinking about stuff while the great people in them are out and about being great. :p They're really gentle though. I love the company of cows.

I worked on a dairy farm one year, have you not heard the story?
I will sum up:
I was caught in a "whiteout" during a blizzard, I was freezing to death :eek:
basically the cows huddled around me and the warmth from their bodies saved me until my friend found me :o
And so now I avoid eating cows.
Also, yeah, I found working with them to be rewarding and to be a calming influence up on me.
 
look, just because I am in love with your avatar :blushing: does not mean you can hijack this "vegetarian" thread with crazy vegan talk :crazy:;)

Haha, well to be fair, in the opening statement it talks about being vegan and not vegetarian...that's all :o

RE: The life saving cows, awesome.
 
I worked on a dairy farm one year, have you not heard the story?
I will sum up:
I was caught in a "whiteout" during a blizzard, I was freezing to death :eek:
basically the cows huddled around me and the warmth from their bodies saved me until my friend found me :o
And so now I avoid eating cows.
Also, yeah, I found working with them to be rewarding and to be a calming influence up on me.

I don't recall hearing that story. What were they thinking saving you? See? Dumdums. :p

That's pretty awesome.
 
Yes, I would consider it to be a victory.

Have you ever read The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan? Pollan is not a vegetarian, not even close, but his book is interesting, and I would recommend it to people who eat meat. Anyway, Pollan talks about "grass farming", which a few small, organic farms practice right now. Basically, the cows, chickens, and pigs are completely free-range, and each supports the other species, and the land of the farm, with their habits and their waste. I can visualize, in this utopia where everyone becomes vegan overnight, that this newfound awareness would also create more small, family farms, and far fewer industrialized farms. These small, community farms could then practice grass farming with some of the former "food animals". The animals would help with the weeding of the crops and provide fresh, natural fertilizer. They would be akin to pets.

I would assume that, in this utopia, the people would care for the remaining "food animals" for the rest of their (the animals') lives. Some of the animals would not be able to survive in the wild, on their own, because of the way that humans have selectively bred them--chickens, for example, who humans have bred to grow so huge so quickly that they often break their own legs with their enormous body weight. Those animals would die out, yes, but they would do so naturally.

Other former food animals would undoubtedly survive in the wild--cattle, pigs, and goats would probably do very well on their own, and their populations would be kept in check by natural predators, such as pumas and wolves, who, in this utopia, would come back because of human beings' newfound awareness of animal rights.
 
Yes, I would consider it to be a victory.

Have you ever read The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan? Pollan is not a vegetarian, not even close, but his book is interesting, and I would recommend it to people who eat meat. Anyway, Pollan talks about "grass farming", which a few small, organic farms practice right now. Basically, the cows, chickens, and pigs are completely free-range, and each supports the other species, and the land of the farm, with their habits and their waste.

Now that''s a great idea. In fact that's genius. We should be encouraging more farms to do that. I'm not going to become vegetarian & I don't think most people would consider it, the whole world 'isn't going to go vegan overnight.' With that in mind, what we all need to do is encourage more ethical farming. 'Grass farming' sounds like just the ticket.

If veggies just hammer people with a stick of 'ewww, meat eating is gross & evil', they're just going to react totally the other way.

There's been some good & interesting responses to this thread, I'm glad I raised it.
 
Hi,

I want to start by saying this isn't me having an anti vegetarian rant. I seriously want to know how you feel about the (remote) possibility of certain things happening:

Let's say that the whole world en masse becomes vegan right now. Almost immediately, at least 10 species of cattle/pigs/poultry are made extinct save for some in zoos.

So, no-one eats meat anymore but there are 10 species (or more) of animal that no longer exist.

Would you consider that to be a victory?

(The reason I mention animal rights people is I got into an argument about horse racing the other day where I pitched a similar question. Through some of my arguments I actually got a couple of people to change their position on the subject, that almost NEVER happens.)

Believe it or not, that's the argument that people in favour of bullfighting use to defend their "cause". They say that if it were not for bullfighting, that type of bull would be extint. So I guess to them, the torture and killing of a beautiful animal actually "saves" a breed of bull.
Doesn't it sound terribly stupid?
Same goes for the animals you mention.
 
Believe it or not, that's the argument that people in favour of bullfighting use to defend their "cause". They say that if it were not for bullfighting, that type of bull would be extint. So I guess to them, the torture and killing of a beautiful animal actually "saves" a breed of bull.
Doesn't it sound terribly stupid?
Same goes for the animals you mention.
it does, it does
and ok now, 1* more tale about me and the dairy farm
so while I was there we birthed this big male calf that my friend Erik christened "Robby" :o
Robby turned out to be a good bull when he grew up all big and strong
but then some years ago, he gored my friend Erik, Erik let that one time slide
then he(Robby) did it again :eek:
& Erik decided he had to put "Robby" down, he took years to tell me and when he did so, it was when we were on the phone, right before I went to visit him a few years ago :cool:

*=I have more stories from when I was a kid and at my grandparent's farm those mostly involve pigs and geese
also, there one about a "heffer" Erik named after my exWife :crazy: that I would never tell here :lbf:
 
A huge proportion of breeding of meat animals is done by artificial insemination. Just stop doing AI and lots of food species will become extinct. The species we're discussing don't contribute anything particularly useful to the ecosystem, and wild versions of them or their anscetors would still exist.
We could keep milk cows and just treat them ethically. People could keep pet chickens in the back yard for eggs.
I'd say it would be a victory.

But, you just gave yourself away. This thread very clearly displays the deep philosophical flaw in hardcore animal rights ideology. It's about the sanctity of life or about suffering depending on what happens to be convenient at that second. This is what I've been talking about.
 
But, you just gave yourself away. This thread very clearly displays the deep philosophical flaw in hardcore animal rights ideology. It's about the sanctity of life or about suffering depending on what happens to be convenient at that second. This is what I've been talking about.


for me it's about the unnecessary exploitation of nature. We don't really need to eat meat to the extent that we do in the western world today and if we stopped doing it, those species that we have bread for that purpose would naturally become extinct. I don't see anything wrong with that, really. We could still keep animals for eggs and milk, in an ethical way - not to protect them as a species but because it would be useful for us to do so and we could do it without unnecessary exploitation. It's all about only taking what you need, in my opinion.
 
Back
Top Bottom