Abortion

Light Housework

Meowissey, Hunchbacked Smut Peddler
When considering a large group of people and their rights we are dealing with abstractions and our own prejudices can influence our opinions, wholly without our intention or awareness. In other words the question of "when should an abortion be permitted" is completely theoretical.
But then when we look at an individual case we might arrive at a different conclusion.
I think it is for this reason that the law should be as unobtrusive as possible.

There are some very bad arguments on both sides of the issue. Those in favor of a woman's right to choose sometimes resort to some variation of "what kind of life would it be for an unwanted child?" Well, there are many unwanted children, and many people who keep these unwanted children for various reasons, and many of these children do have lives that are horrific. But no one ever suggests rounding up the unwanted children and putting them out of their misery.

To call a fetus a child and make the claim that its better off not living is a horrible argument, scientifically and ethically. But it's an equally bad argument for pro-life advocates to call a fetus a child.
At what point does this being become a child? It's a question that will be answered based on a person's religious and philosophical beliefs. Should the law be written based on religion and philosophy?
It is whether we like it or not, but in issues like this, where hearing an individual case can sway your opinion as opposed to the opinion you'd have based on abstractions, it's best for the legal system to operate with the rights of the individual uppermost and with the greatest benefit of the doubt possible applied.

I don't think it should be decided on practical terms really. The argument that a woman will get an abortion anyway but that it will be far more dangerous is compelling to some degree in a pragmatic way, but we can't really make laws that way. There has to be a solid logical basis to the law.

I don't think that abortion is something that anyone takes lightly. I don't think that any woman really considers it to be a safe, practical and effective means of birth control in the sense that she feels "I'll just get an abortion if I get pregnant."

And because looking at individual cases can change your mind maybe that means that we need to give the benefit of the doubt to the person most affected by the decision. It is not practical that every woman with an unwanted pregnancy should have to go before a judge and state her reasons for wanting an abortion.

I think it really comes down to individual rights. I think the problem with the "pro-life" stance is that it's usually based entirely on religious or philosophical beliefs. Why do so many people who oppose abortion also oppose "plan b" or the "morning after pill." Do they really believe that all potential life forms are living entities with rights?

No, it's often based on the idea that "God" has approved certain forms of sexual activity and condemned others.

I do believe in the rights of children and I do think that society has a duty to make their lives the best they can be giving them the potential to reach a state of self-actualization. But we have to recognize that a fetus is not a child. It is a potential child. And we really can't create laws based on potential. These efforts would be much better spent improving the lives of actual children.

TL;DR: If hearing an individual's story can change your mind and if these individual stories are really none of your business, then it's probably wise and prudent to withhold judgment and refrain from making laws based on abstractions, potential, and individual philosophical and religious biases.
The idea of improving the self actualization of existing children resonates with me. What could be better! And, everyone is a child.
 

Light Housework

Meowissey, Hunchbacked Smut Peddler
If there had been people really caring and communicating with me deeply, in my formative years, who knows what I would have done. As it was, I was desperate in every way. Socially, sexually, financially, psychologically, emotionally...a walking knee jerk reaction. A push button machine.
 

Light Housework

Meowissey, Hunchbacked Smut Peddler
I have mixed feelings about the terminations of their lives. Of course I do. In the heat of the moment, it seemed to be the only sane option.
 

Light Housework

Meowissey, Hunchbacked Smut Peddler
Now I open myself up to mourn, after feeling compelled to be calloused about what I chalked up to be mere medical procedures, at the time. That was how I thought of it. I had to, or I wouldn't have been able to go through with it.
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
Unfortunately I could name 10 women (at least 2 in my own family) who have used abortion as a a means of birth control. Every. Single. Time.

Not one was raped, not one was a victim of incest, and it most cases had some type of family support behind them, i.e. they weren't living on the streets. It was simply 'inconvenient' to them to have the baby, so they didn't. And I don't say that to diminish Light Housework's story, it's just what it is.

In 3 cases I can think of the women have had multiple abortions and it was always a means of birth control. Every. Single. Time.

For many years, probably until a few years ago to be honest, I was firmly in the 'women's rights' camp, and I didn't have a change of mind because of religion. I came across a timeline of a baby's development in the womb and it shocked me out of my 'cluster of cells' dream world.

And then I went down the rabbit hole of looking at actual abortion images, but that's perhaps for another day......................

And it's actually what Rifke said, I began to realize that we are talking about 2 bodies here, not 1.

But for now I'll leave the time line here:

-->Day 1: fertilization: all human chromosomes are present; unique human life begins

-->Day 6: embryo begins implantation in the uterus.

-->Day 22: heart begins to beat with the child's own blood, often a different type than the mothers'.

-->Week 3: By the end of third week the child's backbone spinal column and nervous system are forming. The liver, kidneys and intestines begin to take shape.

-->Week 4: By the end of week four the child is ten thousand times larger than the fertilized egg.

-->Week 5: Eyes, legs, and hands begin to develop.

-->Week 6: Brain waves are detectable; mouth and lips are present; fingernails are forming.

*****IT IS AT THIS POINT IS WHEN MOST WOMEN SUSPECT THEY MIGHT BE PREGNANT*****

-->Week 7: Eyelids, and toes form, nose distinct. The baby is kicking and swimming.

-->Week 8: Every organ is in place, bones begin to replace cartilage, and fingerprints begin to form. By the 8th week the baby can begin to hear.

-->Weeks 9 and 10: Teeth begin to form, fingernails develop. The baby can turn his head, and frown. The baby can hiccup.

-->Weeks 10 and 11: The baby can "breathe" amniotic fluid and urinate. Week 11 the baby can grasp objects placed in its hand; all organ systems are functioning. The baby has a skeletal structure, nerves, and circulation.

-->Week 12: The baby has all of the parts necessary to experience pain, including nerves, spinal cord, and thalamus. Vocal cords are complete. The baby can suck its thumb.

-->Week 14: At this age, the heart pumps several quarts of blood through the body every day.

-->Week 15: The baby has an adult's taste buds.

-->Month 4: Bone Marrow is now beginning to form. The heart is pumping 25 quarts of blood a day. By the end of month 4 the baby will be 8-10 inches in length and will weigh up to half a pound.

-->Week 17: The baby can have dream (REM) sleep.

-->Week 19: Babies can routinely be saved at 21 to 22 weeks after fertilization, and sometimes they can be saved even younger.

-->Months 5 and 6: The baby practices breathing by inhaling amniotic fluid into its developing lungs. The baby will grasp at the umbilical cord when it feels it. Most mothers feel an increase in movement, kicking, and hiccups from the baby. Oil and sweat glands are now functioning. The baby is now twelve inches long or more, and weighs up to one and a half pounds.

-->Months 7 through 9: Eyeteeth are present. The baby opens and closes his eyes. The baby is using four of the five senses (vision, hearing, taste, and touch.) He knows the difference between waking and sleeping, and can relate to the moods of the mother. The baby's skin begins to thicken, and a layer of fat is produced and stored beneath the skin. Antibodies are built up, and the baby's heart begins to pump 300 gallons of blood per day. Approximately one week before the birth the baby stops growing, and "drops" usually head down into the pelvic cavity.
 

Light Housework

Meowissey, Hunchbacked Smut Peddler
Unfortunately I could name 10 women (at least 2 in my own family) who have used abortion as a a means of birth control. Every. Single. Time.

Not one was raped, not one was a victim of incest, and it most cases had some type of family support behind them, i.e. they weren't living on the streets. It was simply 'inconvenient' to them to have the baby, so they didn't. And I don't say that to diminish Light Housework's story, it's just what it is.

In 3 cases I can think of the women have had multiple abortions and it was always a means of birth control. Every. Single. Time.

For many years, probably until a few years ago to be honest, I was firmly in the 'women's rights' camp, and I didn't have a change of mind because of religion. I came across a timeline of a baby's development in the womb and it shocked me out of my 'cluster of cells' dream world.

And then I went down the rabbit hole of looking at actual abortion images, but that's perhaps for another day......................

And it's actually what Rifke said, I began to realize that we are talking about 2 bodies here, not 1.

But for now I'll leave the time line here:

-->Day 1: fertilization: all human chromosomes are present; unique human life begins

-->Day 6: embryo begins implantation in the uterus.

-->Day 22: heart begins to beat with the child's own blood, often a different type than the mothers'.

-->Week 3: By the end of third week the child's backbone spinal column and nervous system are forming. The liver, kidneys and intestines begin to take shape.

-->Week 4: By the end of week four the child is ten thousand times larger than the fertilized egg.

-->Week 5: Eyes, legs, and hands begin to develop.

-->Week 6: Brain waves are detectable; mouth and lips are present; fingernails are forming.

*****IT IS AT THIS POINT IS WHEN MOST WOMEN SUSPECT THEY MIGHT BE PREGNANT*****

-->Week 7: Eyelids, and toes form, nose distinct. The baby is kicking and swimming.

-->Week 8: Every organ is in place, bones begin to replace cartilage, and fingerprints begin to form. By the 8th week the baby can begin to hear.

-->Weeks 9 and 10: Teeth begin to form, fingernails develop. The baby can turn his head, and frown. The baby can hiccup.

-->Weeks 10 and 11: The baby can "breathe" amniotic fluid and urinate. Week 11 the baby can grasp objects placed in its hand; all organ systems are functioning. The baby has a skeletal structure, nerves, and circulation.

-->Week 12: The baby has all of the parts necessary to experience pain, including nerves, spinal cord, and thalamus. Vocal cords are complete. The baby can suck its thumb.

-->Week 14: At this age, the heart pumps several quarts of blood through the body every day.

-->Week 15: The baby has an adult's taste buds.

-->Month 4: Bone Marrow is now beginning to form. The heart is pumping 25 quarts of blood a day. By the end of month 4 the baby will be 8-10 inches in length and will weigh up to half a pound.

-->Week 17: The baby can have dream (REM) sleep.

-->Week 19: Babies can routinely be saved at 21 to 22 weeks after fertilization, and sometimes they can be saved even younger.

-->Months 5 and 6: The baby practices breathing by inhaling amniotic fluid into its developing lungs. The baby will grasp at the umbilical cord when it feels it. Most mothers feel an increase in movement, kicking, and hiccups from the baby. Oil and sweat glands are now functioning. The baby is now twelve inches long or more, and weighs up to one and a half pounds.

-->Months 7 through 9: Eyeteeth are present. The baby opens and closes his eyes. The baby is using four of the five senses (vision, hearing, taste, and touch.) He knows the difference between waking and sleeping, and can relate to the moods of the mother. The baby's skin begins to thicken, and a layer of fat is produced and stored beneath the skin. Antibodies are built up, and the baby's heart begins to pump 300 gallons of blood per day. Approximately one week before the birth the baby stops growing, and "drops" usually head down into the pelvic cavity.
I knew I was pregnant within a minute of Mike ejaculating. I knew I was contaminated and contagious with some disease, in the incubation stage of syphilis, from Perry. I went to the children's hospital and got myself checked out, and was told "incubation stage syphilis and pregnant".
 

Light Housework

Meowissey, Hunchbacked Smut Peddler
Perry was in his 40's and I was 16, and melted when he put his arms around me because I was that lonely. I knew he was a sleazebag. I couldn't stop myself from melting to his prompting toward the bed, right in front of Mona and her boyfriend. Mona was his niece, and didn't tell me, she'd lost an ovary to syphilis Perry gave her.
 

Light Housework

Meowissey, Hunchbacked Smut Peddler
Mike raped me at one point, in a graveyard. Hatred is what I feel right now.
 

Light Housework

Meowissey, Hunchbacked Smut Peddler
Mike was sadistic with animals. I can't imagine what he'd do to a baby. And Perry, giving his niece and me syphilis, then denying it, what kind of father he'd make I can't fathom.
 

Light Housework

Meowissey, Hunchbacked Smut Peddler
No one said anything except "Do you want an abortion?". "You can have an abortion." There were no pamphlets. There was nothing but that question if I wanted an abortion.
 

Light Housework

Meowissey, Hunchbacked Smut Peddler
Now I'm mourning my own offspring. And theirs, though I loathe them as people.
 
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