"An Open Letter To Morrissey" by John Robb - Louder Than War

reelfountain

On Timeout
Why? It’s utter bullshit.

Paul has studied Tommy Robinson and For Britain and concluded that they are neither racist or far right. Really? He has done nothing of the sort. He is simply clinging to shreds to defend the indefensible. He’s read the For Britain “manifesto” and read little Tommy ascerting his “Racist? Not me squire” public persona. Had he spent one minute looking into those people behind For Britain and his new mate Tommy, he would find little to defend with such faux grandiosity. His comments are near psychopathy, if you could actually believe that he has reached them with any modicum of independent thought. He has not. He is a sycophant. A grown man who will fit himself into whatever Morrissey shaped hole is presented. Think about that for a minute.

This is a man who regurgitates Morrissey’s opinions, however objectionable (and he knows it), who spends his life regurgitating Morrissey’s career. Even the rats only followed the Pied Piper. Don’t go falling for some carefully mimicked lines from the “sincere homage” to the Pied Piper. Indulge yourself with your own thoughts, your own opinions, created by your own world view.
Tell me one thing TR has said that is racist. He's anti-Islam and so should you be if you care about rights for women, animals and children.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Tell me one thing TR has said that is racist. He's anti-Islam and so should you be if you care about rights for women, animals and children.

He tweeted “What do you call a Pakistani that don’t smell? #asif” and that’s just for starters. If you don’t consider Islamaphobia as Racism then you have lost the plot. I care deeply about human and animal rights. However good old Tommy only “cares”about this when it comes to a specific demographic of the human population. He is a Racist.
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
Can someone please clear something up for me. As I understand Tommy Robinson had a niece that was a victim of a grooming gang. Is that true or not? If it is it explains a lot. A bit like a mother that has a child killed by drunk driver, the mother then becomes a very ardent campaigner on drunk driving to exclusion of other types of crimes because the issue is personal to her. Anyhoo, just a thought and if someone can shed some light on my question I'd be grateful.

The 'asif' tweet sounds to me no worse than a bunch of Irish jokes i've heard down the years but I guess everyone will view it through their own prism.
 

Bluebirds

Well-Known Member
I thought it was okay. Why is he a “f***ing dick?” Is it because his view don’t fit in with your inner-narrative about Morrissey or for a different reason?

He's a self-publicist of the highest order with little discernible talent as a musician or as a writer. He's a vox-pop on any show you could imagine who still bangs on about Madchester, The Roses and punk rock like some man trapped in a timezone. He's the kind of bloke who would attend the opening of an envelope and write about it. Repeatedly.

I can't stand him. Neither can I stand Morrissey's fascist groove-thang. But I don't need or want John Nobb to tell me why
 

rifke

team bougatsa
i don't get this "being disappointed" in moz business. I'm happy for what moz has given the world, he has enriched my world immensely. even if tomorrow he were to actually say something terrible I still wouldn't be disappointed in him because I don't feel that he ever owed me anything or that what he has given the world somehow decreases in value whenever he says something I don't agree with. it's like that saying "tomorrow isn't promised", while neither is the idea that you and your favourite musicians are going to be forever aligned in thought, since, after all, musicians are their own people (although some of them might lead you to believe otherwise). enjoy what you can while you can. you didn't raise them, you didn't make them what they are, it isn't your right to be disappointed in them.
 

rifke

team bougatsa
Quite a lot of this type of thing appearing online at the moment.
Here's one that dares to go the other direction for a bit of balance (which is not indicative of any view on my own part - said to help the knee-jerkers):

For non-Facebook types:
"The collective hysteria that continues to grip those who appear to not be concerned about anything else in life other than what Morrissey is thinking, saying, or doing at any given moment, and how they can weave it into their tired ‘far-right racist’ narrative shows no sign of petering out anytime soon.

Like the fires sweeping across the North West, which, no sooner doused spring up anew, every interview or announcement given and made only serve to create further flare-ups along with a blanket of thick smoke that obscures anything resembling rational thought or reasoned discussion, and leaves everyone flapping around in a sea of conjecture dressed up as fact, and opinion served up as truth.

While a fraction of those paying attention to the ongoing melee are prepared to do their own research and arrive at their own conclusions, as opposed to choosing a side from the outset and becoming ever more entrenched in their positions, regardless of anything anyone else may say, most are serving their own agendas, with those who never miss an opportunity to savage Morrissey shouting the loudest and most often in an attempt to drown out anyone who may suggest that, behind the faux outrage and the genuine dismay, there’s another story that very few are prepared to acknowledge.

It’s undoubtedly true, as Morrissey has pointed out, that the traditional ideas of left-wing/right-wing no longer apply, just as the term ‘racist’ can no longer be used with the same abandon it previously was in order to drown out unpalatable truths, and tarnish the reputation of those who have chosen to shine a light on the murky corners of British society, where unscrupulous operators have conducted their nefarious activities with impunity for too long, aided and abetted by corrupt and self-serving Politicians from Blair’s New Labour, to their natural heirs in the current Tory Party.

It’s far from apparent to me that For Britain are a ‘far-right’ Party, or that Tommy Robinson is a racist or ‘hate-preacher’. Having conducted extensive research , I’ve concluded that virtually everything I was told about these people, or led to believe, came from an unreliable source, from the British Establishment and their lackeys in the media, who have a vested interest in keeping the British people ignorant regarding their true agenda. Of course whenever we mention topics of this nature, however careful we are regarding the language we use, we run the risk of being pilloried by the under-educated and the over-bearing alike, who will employ social media to destroy the reputations and careers of those who speak up and speak out.

I’m of the traditional Left, and an ardent Corbyn supporter, who has actively canvassed for Jeremy’s Labour Party since he was elected Party Leader, and NOTHING that Morrissey has said has caused me any consternation. What has caused me great sadness, and continues to both disappoint and infuriate in equal measures, are the constant attacks and misrepresentations on and regarding Morrissey and his opinions, which have been woefully and wilfully misunderstood and distorted beyond all recognition.

Thanks in part to Dave Haslam’s despicable opportunism and the unrelenting bleatings of the ‘ex-fans’ whipped into a frenzy by the ill-informed opinions and disingenuous commentary from those who have only ever wished him ill, it now seems highly unlikely we’ll ever see Morrissey grace the stage of a UK venue again, and who could blame him for focussing his attentions on his loyal fan bases in the US and around the world to whom the rantings and ravings of the easily led and the overfed in the UK are met with puzzled bemusement.

For Man’s grim Justice goes its way
And will not swerve aside
It slays the weak, it slays the strong,
It has a deadly stride
With iron heel it slays the strong,
The monstrous parricide!

The Ballad of Reading Gaol - Oscar Wilde"


Regards,
FWD.
seems like a beautiful human being. the wilde quote is perfect.
 

DreamingofStew

Active Member
I'm not criticising the sentiments of the letter. I just want to say how badly written it is and how depressing it is that someone who hasn't mastered the very basics of the English language should be - apparently - an "award winning journalist".

Some examples:

"Initially, it had your fans thinking it was some kind of arch clever game soon to be replaced by a weary resignation, which has now been replaced by a resignation from buying tickets to your shows."

It took me a while to parse this. The problem is that "soon to be replaced" seems to be modifying "game", giving the impression that the fans are thinking Moz's game will be replaced by resignation. But, what the author seems to mean (I am guessing) is that the fans' thinking Moz was playing a game was replaced by the fans' resignation.

"Your old mucker Johnny Marr seems to embrace the perceived Smiths spirit musically and politically and is doing it with a dignity the more you seem to move away from it."

There's a clash of sentence structures here. "...doing it with a dignity" should be followed by "that" and a description of what kind of dignity. Alternatively, "the more" should be paired with another "the more", e.g. "Your old mucker Johnny Marr seems to embrace the perceived Smiths spirit musically and politically, but the more dignity he displays in his art, the more you seem to move away from dignity." Or "the more... the less..." also works: "...but the more dignity he has, the less you seem to have." Etc.

That might be an unwieldy sentence, but, if so, the job of a writer is to scrap the unwieldy and start again from a different angle.

Next:

"Of course being a lifelong fan is about watching the trudge towards the grave and the snuffing out of eternal youth with the artist as the mirror to all our own inevitable declines, in pop culture growing older is by nature that hard part and the dogged fan still remembers that moment in their lives when everything felt so free and perfect and the soundtrack was killer but this is the first time we may have seen the ‘death by interview’."

The author obviously doesn't know what a sentence is. The first one should come to an end with "declines". What comes after "declines" here is logorrhea. Also, if something is eternal then, by definition, it can't be snuffed out. The youth that is snuffed out is, by dint of that very fact, not eternal.

I'm afraid the letter is so riddled with offences against English that I don't have time to list them all, but you get the idea.

If the author cares so much about the issue, why doesn't he take the time and make the effort to write a decent letter? I'd have been ashamed to write this kind of thing as a thank you letter to my uncle after Christmas when I was a child.
 
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Peppermint

Well-Known Member
I'm not criticising the sentiments of the letter. I just want to say how badly written it is and how depressing it is that someone who hasn't mastered the very basics of the English language should be - apparently - an "award winning journalist".

Some examples:

"Initially, it had your fans thinking it was some kind of arch clever game soon to be replaced by a weary resignation, which has now been replaced by a resignation from buying tickets to your shows."

It took me a while to parse this. The problem is that "soon to be replaced" seems to be modifying "game", giving the impression that the fans are thinking Moz's game will be replaced by resignation. But, what the author seems to mean (I am guessing) is that the fans' thinking Moz was playing a game was replaced by the fans' resignation.

"Your old mucker Johnny Marr seems to embrace the perceived Smiths spirit musically and politically and is doing it with a dignity the more you seem to move away from it."

There's a clash of sentence structures here. "...doing it with a dignity" should be followed by "that" and a description of what kind of dignity. Alternatively, "the more" should be paired with another "the more", e.g. "Your old mucker Johnny Marr seems to embrace the perceived Smiths spirit musically and politically, but the more dignity he displays in his art, the more you seem to move away from dignity." Or "the more... the less..." also works: "...but the more dignity he has, the less you seem to have." Etc.

That might be an unwieldy sentence, but, if so, the job of a writer is to scrap the unwieldy and start again from a different angle.

Next:

"Of course being a lifelong fan is about watching the trudge towards the grave and the snuffing out of eternal youth with the artist as the mirror to all our own inevitable declines, in pop culture growing older is by nature that hard part and the dogged fan still remembers that moment in their lives when everything felt so free and perfect and the soundtrack was killer but this is the first time we may have seen the ‘death by interview’."

The author obviously doesn't know what a sentence is. The first one should come to an end with "declines". What comes after "declines" here is logorrhea. Also, if something is eternal then, by definition, it can't be snuffed out. The youth that is snuffed out is, by dint of that very fact, not eternal.

I'm afraid the letter is so riddled with offences against English that I don't have time to list them all, but you get the idea.

If the author cares so much about the issue, why doesn't he take the time and make the effort to write a decent letter? I'd have been ashamed to write this kind of thing as a thank you letter to my uncle after Christmas when I was a child.
I couldn't agree more. Thanks for posting, I thought about doing it myself but the current climate of hysteria sapped me of the will to write it.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I'm not criticising the sentiments of the letter. I just want to say how badly written it is and how depressing it is that someone who hasn't mastered the very basics of the English language should be - apparently - an "award winning journalist".

Some examples:

"Initially, it had your fans thinking it was some kind of arch clever game soon to be replaced by a weary resignation, which has now been replaced by a resignation from buying tickets to your shows."

It took me a while to parse this. The problem is that "soon to be replaced" seems to be modifying "game", giving the impression that the fans are thinking Moz's game will be replaced by resignation. But, what the author seems to mean (I am guessing) is that the fans' thinking Moz was playing a game was replaced by the fans' resignation.

"Your old mucker Johnny Marr seems to embrace the perceived Smiths spirit musically and politically and is doing it with a dignity the more you seem to move away from it."

There's a clash of sentence structures here. "...doing it with a dignity" should be followed by "that" and a description of what kind of dignity. Alternatively, "the more" should be paired with another "the more", e.g. "Your old mucker Johnny Marr seems to embrace the perceived Smiths spirit musically and politically, but the more dignity he displays in his art, the more you seem to move away from dignity." Or "the more... the less..." also works: "...but the more dignity he has, the less you seem to have." Etc.

That might be an unwieldy sentence, but, if so, the job of a writer is to scrap the unwieldy and start again from a different angle.

Next:

"Of course being a lifelong fan is about watching the trudge towards the grave and the snuffing out of eternal youth with the artist as the mirror to all our own inevitable declines, in pop culture growing older is by nature that hard part and the dogged fan still remembers that moment in their lives when everything felt so free and perfect and the soundtrack was killer but this is the first time we may have seen the ‘death by interview’."

The author obviously doesn't know what a sentence is. The first one should come to an end with "declines". What comes after "declines" here is logorrhea. Also, if something is eternal then, by definition, it can't be snuffed out. The youth that is snuffed out is, by dint of that very fact, not eternal.

I'm afraid the letter is so riddled with offences against English that I don't have time to list them all, but you get the idea.

If the author cares so much about the issue, why doesn't he take the time and make the effort to write a decent letter? I'd have been ashamed to write this kind of thing as a thank you letter to my uncle after Christmas when I was a child.

It's because journalisms success isn't based on grammar. Same way you can be a virtuoso guitar player and not succeed in popular music
 

Peppermint

Well-Known Member
On the plus side expect the current situation to provide quality lyrics for the next album.
Hmmm. I'd like to think it worked like that, but the evidence suggests it won't. In fact as the verbal incontinence has increased over the years, the quality of lyrics has decreased almost in direct correlation. I expect someone clever with charts and graphs could illustrate this interesting relationship for us.
 

Stephen Hofmann

Well-Known Member
https://louderthanwar.com/open-letter-morrissey/

Article on Louder Than War by Manchester journalist/musician John Robb.
Think its a decent piece myself, he seems to always revert back to the fact Morrissey is allowed to say what he likes, there are no hysterical cries of ‘Racist!!’ but pleads with him just to consider how his mouth is harming his loyal fanbase, and I think he encapsulates how many Moz fans are feeling currently.

I’m glad he referenced Mark E Smiths’s C4 interview too, because many a indie journo darling mourned his death (rightfully so) without any mention of that. If Moz was to comment the same...

Thoughts?

Smith said what a lot of people think.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I thought it was okay. Why is he a “f***ing dick?” Is it because his view don’t fit in with your inner-narrative about Morrissey or for a different reason?
Why is he a "f***ing cock" ????
Why do you feel obliqued to insult people or reporters who would not agree with morrisey.
You cry scandal when someone gives a contrary opinion, speaking of "freedom of expression", but you insult these people by saying that morrisey rightly, that YOU are right.
You can not bear any criticism of your singer, but you allow yourself to say criticism and worse against these people .....

You reproach others, what you make them suffer ..... nothing shocks you?
If so, you are only desperate cases and nothing else .....

ps: for pity's sake, do like morrisey, do not reproduce yourself for the sake of humanity !!!!!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Tell me one thing TR has said that is racist. He's anti-Islam and so should you be if you care about rights for women, animals and children.
I don't like what John Robb has said about Morrissey in this letter. John Robb doesn't speak for me as a Morrissey fan.

I only heard about the Tommy Robinson case because Morrissey talked about him. I had never heard of him before this. His full name is Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon, but he is known by the pseudonym Tommy Robinson, and previously as Andrew McMaster and Paul Harris. Tommy Robinson has some Irish heritage.

Katie Hopkins has also spoken out in support for Tommy Robinson and so has Donald Trump's son this is a very high-profile case which as gone around the world.

I don't know much about the Tommy Robinson case I'm not a lawyer so I don't want to comment on him or why he was put in prison.

What I would say is that I have had my own bad traumatic experiences with Muslim men in Britain this is what put me off Islam. I can't generalise about all Muslim men in Britain I'm sure some of them are really nice but some of them don't seem to have much respect for women. Also I don't like the way that they treat animals. I have read about the sexual grooming gangs involving very young girls who are basically children but unfortunately I don't think that this is only within the Muslim community. I'm very against all forms of child abuse, the modern day slave trade and also human trafficking which goes on all over the world. I'm against Islamic extremism and terrorism.

I'm a Christian and I support the Jewish Sate of Israel like Morrissey does but I don't support violence on either side.

Apparently, John Robb is friends with Andy Rourke this makes me suspicious. I'm suspicious of people connected to Manchester's indie rock scene who hang out with the other former members of The Smiths Johnny Marr, Andy Rourke and Mike Joyce. I don't like these people and I don't like what they did to Morrissey. I don't like Manchester's indie rock/alternative rock scene at all I think that is is quite a nasty scene.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
It's because journalisms success isn't based on grammar. Same way you can be a virtuoso guitar player and not succeed in popular music

Even in popular music - as we know - people care about musicianship. We know when people are playing out of tune. I can understand that not everyone cares about language, though I think that's a shame, but when the very basis of your job is use of language and that use is careless to the point of gibberish, and you still get awards for it, it does seem to me that something has gone wrong somewhere.
 

DreamingofStew

Active Member
It's because journalisms success isn't based on grammar. Same way you can be a virtuoso guitar player and not succeed in popular music

Even in popular music - as we know - people care about musicianship. We know when people are playing out of tune. I can understand that not everyone cares about language, though I think that's a shame, but when the very basis of your job is use of language and that use is careless to the point of gibberish, and you still get awards for it, it does seem to me that something has gone wrong somewhere.
 
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