"An Open Letter To Morrissey" by John Robb - Louder Than War

Peppermint

Well-Known Member
It's because journalisms success isn't based on grammar. Same way you can be a virtuoso guitar player and not succeed in popular music
That's like saying you don't have to know much about anatomy to be a surgeon. A proper command of the English language is Base One for any professional writer. Otherwise your 'success' will be limited to writing your own blog.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
That's like saying you don't have to know much about anatomy to be a surgeon. A proper command of the English language is Base One for any professional writer. Otherwise your 'success' will be limited to writing your own blog.

Not a good comparison imo. The use and need for grammar in journalism only extends to the level necessary to convey the message and sentiment which is far lower than the bar you’re holding this piece to. He’s popular because a large number of people understand what he’s saying and understand his point when he writes, people trust his observations and he’s able to move people. Obviously whatever level of grammar misuse his writing contains isn’t very important to readers as they aren’t flooding his outlets with complaints and can still understand his content and point. They might even trust him more for it who knows. Good journalism is about getting your point across and getting people to listen to you and he does that just fine. The level your holding his grammar to is irrelevant to he success of this
 

Johnny Barleycorn

Well-Known Member
Why is he a "f***ing cock" ????
Why do you feel obliqued to insult people or reporters who would not agree with morrisey.
You cry scandal when someone gives a contrary opinion, speaking of "freedom of expression", but you insult these people by saying that morrisey rightly, that YOU are right.
You can not bear any criticism of your singer, but you allow yourself to say criticism and worse against these people .....

You reproach others, what you make them suffer ..... nothing shocks you?
If so, you are only desperate cases and nothing else .....

ps: for pity's sake, do like morrisey, do not reproduce yourself for the sake of humanity !!!!!

I’ve found Morrissey - or at least the persona he presents to the world - rather hard to like for a very long time. We will all have pronouncements of his we have found problematic down the decades, even though on occasion he has been right and reggae is vile and Steve Wright should be hanged. There’s little point going over it all again. It isn’t as if we don’t know them.

His distaste for the British state is of long standing, and coincidentally, I’m sure, took on an added dimension of “now with added bitter fury” when he lost his court case, but, hey, it’s a free country. Just because he and Marr are of Irish stock and enjoyed the peace, education and other benefits of the UK which enabled them to fully realise their prodigious talent, doesn’t mean they must be grateful, and God knows they aren’t. The British taxpayer has been funding the greatest rock bands in history since the sixties. We still would be if any of them today were any bloody good.

What is different about this situation is that no laws have been broken. When he was sailing rather closer to the wind legally, by wishing death on the Queen or Thatcher, for example, those condemning him here were amongst those who cared not a jot. Suddenly he’s broken the ever changing moral code of some amorphous online blob and simple censure isn’t enough. His career must not only be damaged, but it’s destruction must be celebrated.

Orwell, that socialist genius (not a phrase I’ve ever typed before) called it “thoughtcrime” and that seems to me to be where we are in this debate. Morrissey’s thoughtcrime, so to speak, is not believing the things certain other people think, something in a free society we are all, hopefully guilty of. If not we might as well all break out the Kim Jong Un Hallo’Ween costumes and be done with it.

There are people on this very thread who would attack and dismiss and seek to literally destroy the lives of those whose views do not precisely mirror their own. It is absolutely textbook hard left politics, and why socialism is a disaster wherever its icy grip takes hold.

The left believe in diversity of everything but thought. It’s why they fail.
 
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Halloway

Guest
You were doing really well until the last two paragraphs, which look like they snuck in from the Daily Mail comments pages or something.
 

Johnny Barleycorn

Well-Known Member
You were doing really well until the last two paragraphs, which look like they snuck in from the Daily Mail comments pages or something.

Was I doing really well until I said something you disagreed with, petal?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
"The collective hysteria that continues to grip those who appear to not be concerned about anything else in life other than what Morrissey is thinking, saying, or doing at any given moment, and how they can weave it into their tired ‘far-right racist’ narrative shows no sign of petering out anytime soon.

Like the fires sweeping across the North West, which, no sooner doused spring up anew, every interview or announcement given and made only serve to create further flare-ups along with a blanket of thick smoke that obscures anything resembling rational thought or reasoned discussion, and leaves everyone flapping around in a sea of conjecture dressed up as fact, and opinion served up as truth.

While a fraction of those paying attention to the ongoing melee are prepared to do their own research and arrive at their own conclusions, as opposed to choosing a side from the outset and becoming ever more entrenched in their positions, regardless of anything anyone else may say, most are serving their own agendas, with those who never miss an opportunity to savage Morrissey shouting the loudest and most often in an attempt to drown out anyone who may suggest that, behind the faux outrage and the genuine dismay, there’s another story that very few are prepared to acknowledge.

It’s undoubtedly true, as Morrissey has pointed out, that the traditional ideas of left-wing/right-wing no longer apply, just as the term ‘racist’ can no longer be used with the same abandon it previously was in order to drown out unpalatable truths, and tarnish the reputation of those who have chosen to shine a light on the murky corners of British society, where unscrupulous operators have conducted their nefarious activities with impunity for too long, aided and abetted by corrupt and self-serving Politicians from Blair’s New Labour, to their natural heirs in the current Tory Party.

It’s far from apparent to me that For Britain are a ‘far-right’ Party, or that Tommy Robinson is a racist or ‘hate-preacher’. Having conducted extensive research , I’ve concluded that virtually everything I was told about these people, or led to believe, came from an unreliable source, from the British Establishment and their lackeys in the media, who have a vested interest in keeping the British people ignorant regarding their true agenda. Of course whenever we mention topics of this nature, however careful we are regarding the language we use, we run the risk of being pilloried by the under-educated and the over-bearing alike, who will employ social media to destroy the reputations and careers of those who speak up and speak out.

I’m of the traditional Left, and an ardent Corbyn supporter, who has actively canvassed for Jeremy’s Labour Party since he was elected Party Leader, and NOTHING that Morrissey has said has caused me any consternation. What has caused me great sadness, and continues to both disappoint and infuriate in equal measures, are the constant attacks and misrepresentations on and regarding Morrissey and his opinions, which have been woefully and wilfully misunderstood and distorted beyond all recognition.

Thanks in part to Dave Haslam’s despicable opportunism and the unrelenting bleatings of the ‘ex-fans’ whipped into a frenzy by the ill-informed opinions and disingenuous commentary from those who have only ever wished him ill, it now seems highly unlikely we’ll ever see Morrissey grace the stage of a UK venue again, and who could blame him for focussing his attentions on his loyal fan bases in the US and around the world to whom the rantings and ravings of the easily led and the overfed in the UK are met with puzzled bemusement.

For Man’s grim Justice goes its way
And will not swerve aside
It slays the weak, it slays the strong,
It has a deadly stride
With iron heel it slays the strong,
The monstrous parricide!

The Ballad of Reading Gaol - Oscar Wilde"

Well put.
I would recommend The Happy Prince(film on Wilde's life post jail).
There are many parallels with the current Morrissey saga.
So so sad.
 

Johnny Barleycorn

Well-Known Member
It was more that they did not flow from what came previously. And of course they were a gross generalisation, which further made them irrelevant.

As an illustration of where the hard left’s unwillingness to engage with opposing thought inevitably leads it seems relevant.

Those attacking Morrissey in recent days aren’t discussing what he said. They are discussing ways to stop him saying what he said. Two rather different things.

This is part of the problem which arises when, for example, even One Nation Tories like Jacob Rees-Mogg are branded as far-right, when it is clear he’d struggle to fight his way out of a wet paper bag and would fall back on his fainting couch if someone used the wrong knife at dinner.. To imply he’s some sort of Oswald Mosley in utero is as obnoxious as it is idiotic. Those attacking him as such should at least be honest. The issue with Mogg is that he’s posh and rich.

Similarly, the issue with the white middle classes is that they are white and middle class. The issue with the white working class is that they are white and working class. It is their very existence that offends. Labour still haven’t forgiven the working class in this country for voting for Thatcher.

This is good old fashioned class war with an added sheen of racial, sexual and feminist radical politics. At least have the balls to admit it.
 
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Halloway

Guest
Similarly, the issue with the white middle classes is that they are white and middle class. The issue with the white working class is that they are white and working class.

With profundities like this, are you sure you aren't Jordan Peterson?

But I really don't know why you are ranting on about the hard left and addressing those rants to me. I am not hard left.
 

Peppermint

Well-Known Member
Not a good comparison imo. The use and need for grammar in journalism only extends to the level necessary to convey the message and sentiment which is far lower than the bar you’re holding this piece to. He’s popular because a large number of people understand what he’s saying and understand his point when he writes, people trust his observations and he’s able to move people. Obviously whatever level of grammar misuse his writing contains isn’t very important to readers as they aren’t flooding his outlets with complaints and can still understand his content and point. They might even trust him more for it who knows. Good journalism is about getting your point across and getting people to listen to you and he does that just fine. The level your holding his grammar to is irrelevant to he success of this
Speaking as someone who earned a living as a writer for over 20 years, I can tell you that grammar is fairly important. Particularly so if people are paying for the privilege of reading you; they expect certain things in return, like accuracy and coherence. If you and others like him, great. But this is simply poor writing and the only reason he can peddle this pish is because it's free.
 
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Johnnie Ray

Well-Known Member
Morrissey is soooo over. Just remember the past. Remember how he used to look, sound, and act. Getting old eventually destroys even the best (except Mick Jagger, who stayed thin and cool).
 
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Anonymous

Guest
As an illustration of where the hard left’s unwillingness to engage with opposing thought inevitably leads it seems relevant.

Those attacking Morrissey in recent days aren’t discussing what he said. They are discussing ways to stop him saying what he said.
.
Agree.The non listening,name calling left are not the left I support.
Unfortunately,their tactics only incite more far right nonsense and so it will go on...
 

Bluebirds

Well-Known Member
As an illustration of where the hard left’s unwillingness to engage with opposing thought inevitably leads it seems relevant.

Those attacking Morrissey in recent days aren’t discussing what he said. They are discussing ways to stop him saying what he said. Two rather different things.

This is part of the problem which arises when, for example, even One Nation Tories like Jacob Rees-Mogg are branded as far-right, when it is clear he’d struggle to fight his way out of a wet paper bag and would fall back on his fainting couch if someone used the wrong knife at dinner.. To imply he’s some sort of Oswald Mosley in utero is as obnoxious as it is idiotic. Those attacking him as such should at least be honest. The issue with Mogg is that he’s posh and rich.

Similarly, the issue with the white middle classes is that they are white and middle class. The issue with the white working class is that they are white and working class. It is their very existence that offends. Labour still haven’t forgiven the working class in this country for voting for Thatcher.

This is good old fashioned class war with an added sheen of racial, sexual and feminist radical politics. At least have the balls to admit it.

Jacob Ress-Mogg a One Nation Tory? Pull the other one. He has about as much compassion (which I thought was the basis of one nation Conservatives) as Morrissey after a bottle of Grey Goose and a night of watching Muslim grooming gang videos. On YouTube.
 
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anonymous

Guest
Sadly, I agree with a lot of what John says. As previously mentioned I was pleased to see reference to Mark E Smith's Channel 4 news interview as I feel it offers a reference point for comparison. What lets the article down , in my opinion, is the desire from Robb for Morrissey to reunite with Johnny as if that would make all of this current debate go away. It's hardly Boz's fault that Morrissey is now more vocal with a set of political views that many of us disagree with
 

scatterkeir

Well-Known Member
I'm not criticising the sentiments of the letter. I just want to say how badly written it is and how depressing it is that someone who hasn't mastered the very basics of the English language should be - apparently - an "award winning journalist".

Some examples:

"Initially, it had your fans thinking it was some kind of arch clever game soon to be replaced by a weary resignation, which has now been replaced by a resignation from buying tickets to your shows."

It took me a while to parse this. The problem is that "soon to be replaced" seems to be modifying "game", giving the impression that the fans are thinking Moz's game will be replaced by resignation. But, what the author seems to mean (I am guessing) is that the fans' thinking Moz was playing a game was replaced by the fans' resignation.

"Your old mucker Johnny Marr seems to embrace the perceived Smiths spirit musically and politically and is doing it with a dignity the more you seem to move away from it."

There's a clash of sentence structures here. "...doing it with a dignity" should be followed by "that" and a description of what kind of dignity. Alternatively, "the more" should be paired with another "the more", e.g. "Your old mucker Johnny Marr seems to embrace the perceived Smiths spirit musically and politically, but the more dignity he displays in his art, the more you seem to move away from dignity." Or "the more... the less..." also works: "...but the more dignity he has, the less you seem to have." Etc.

That might be an unwieldy sentence, but, if so, the job of a writer is to scrap the unwieldy and start again from a different angle.

Next:

"Of course being a lifelong fan is about watching the trudge towards the grave and the snuffing out of eternal youth with the artist as the mirror to all our own inevitable declines, in pop culture growing older is by nature that hard part and the dogged fan still remembers that moment in their lives when everything felt so free and perfect and the soundtrack was killer but this is the first time we may have seen the ‘death by interview’."

The author obviously doesn't know what a sentence is. The first one should come to an end with "declines". What comes after "declines" here is logorrhea. Also, if something is eternal then, by definition, it can't be snuffed out. The youth that is snuffed out is, by dint of that very fact, not eternal.

I'm afraid the letter is so riddled with offences against English that I don't have time to list them all, but you get the idea.

If the author cares so much about the issue, why doesn't he take the time and make the effort to write a decent letter? I'd have been ashamed to write this kind of thing as a thank you letter to my uncle after Christmas when I was a child.

Thanks for this, I like John and his letter but you're right. There's bits of good writing in the letter which suggest it was intended to be of a quality which is inconsistent with the issues you point out.

I would let him keep the 'eternal youth' thing but I think it would have been better without 'your old mucker'. In fact it would probably have been better not mentioning Johnny Marr at all.

Does anyone think an open letter to Racist Eric Clapton would have been improved by a line to the effect of "you don't see Jack Bruce going round saying Enoch was right"?
 
U

URBANUS

Guest
Morrissey is soooo over. Just remember the past. Remember how he used to look, sound, and act. Getting old eventually destroys even the best (except Mick Jagger, who stayed thin and cool).
Jagger is the only dinosaur I believe in and people have no idea how creepy that silly old man is. He stayed thin cause of drugs but look at his face.
 

Johnnie Ray

Well-Known Member
Jagger is the only dinosaur I believe in and people have no idea how creepy that silly old man is. He stayed thin cause of drugs but look at his face.
Jagger hasn't taken drugs since the 70's. His face has wrinkles because...um, he's 75. He can run circles around Morrissey, who barely even moves on stage anymore.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Who is John Robb? No matter. I suppose if he's a 'journalist' we'll have to assume he's telling it like it is.
 

g23

Always crashing in the same car
To be honest, this is every bit as annoying as Fiona Dudwell's free speech/anti protest (lol) piece.
Meanwhile, I just sit back and marvel at the parallels in tactics used by the orange anus in chief and my former top 5 musical fave. If it all turned out to be an elaborate performance art prank by a very bored Morrissey, a'la Joaquin Phoenix's beardy weirdo persona phase, I almost wouldn't be surprised. I don't think there's enough cleverness at play for that to be a plausible theory though.
 
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