Article: "Morrissey: Why I Think He Should Be Applauded For His Animal Rights Convictions" by Barry

realitybites

making lemonade
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Re: Article: "Morrissey: Why I Think He Should Be Applauded For His Animal Rights Convictions" by Ba

There are countless 1,000s and 1,000s of dairy farming authorities, organizations and people all over the uk who keep relatively large herds of cows and goats In much the same nice caring ways as if keeping pet dogs and cats and treat them with love and care and respect and not cause them any suffering ect


If you keep as few as 3 or 4 pet cows or goats in a field it could be said, that in effect, that you are operating a farm, albiet on a small scale, depending on ones defintion of what a farm is.
And people will now and then obtain in a very caring kind way, a tiny little bit of spare milk from there pet cows and cause them no harm whatso ever.

Ive already mentioned im not getting invloved in any debate on the ethics of humans drinking cows milk - im mearly pointing out, for the the last time, that not all dairy milk comes from cows that suffer!
Thats it!

Im very sorry but im not able 2 continue on this topic anymore !

In Midnite's fantasy world we all live on two or more acre homesteads--not in urban lofts. So we all can have a family dairy cow (or two). Great. But we need to keep her pregnant in order for her to keep lactating to give us milk. What do we do with the offspring? We only have room for two cows. And all our neighbors are fully booked. Shall there be giant factory sanctuaries to house all the byproduct calves so that we can consume the milk of another species? How is this scenario practical or humane?
 
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Charlie Cheswick

Well-Known Member
Re: Article: "Morrissey: Why I Think He Should Be Applauded For His Animal Rights Convictions" by Ba

In Midnite's fantasy world we all live on two or more acre homesteads--not in urban lofts. So we all can have a family dairy cow (or two). Great. But we need to keep her pregnant in order for her to keep lactating to give us milk. What do we do with the offspring? We only have room for two cows? And all our neighbors are fully booked. Shall there be giant factory sanctuaries to house all the byproduct calves so that we can consume the milk of another species? How is this scenario practical or humane?

You'd better go vegan RB.
 

realitybites

making lemonade
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Re: Article: "Morrissey: Why I Think He Should Be Applauded For His Animal Rights Convictions" by Ba

You'd better go vegan RB.

Why? I am not claiming meat is murder. There is no hypocrisy or cognitive dissonance. I have no opposition to consuming sustainably grown and harvested mollusks--and neither should you or anyone else. If I had the means, I could and would live off them, vegetables and rice, and would consume no dairy. In other words, if I had Morrissey's resources, I would eat a more humane diet than he does. In many ways I already do as I consume minuscule quantities of dairy--mostly in the form of milk chocolate when I do indulge.

Keep in mind I am not telling people what to eat. I'm simply pushing back against someone who is by highlighting their hypocrisy.
 

Charlie Cheswick

Well-Known Member
Re: Article: "Morrissey: Why I Think He Should Be Applauded For His Animal Rights Convictions" by Ba

Why? I am not claiming meat is murder. There is no hypocrisy or cognitive dissonance. I have no opposition to consuming sustainably grown and harvested mollusks--and neither should you or anyone else. If I had the means, I could and would live off them, vegetables and rice, and would consume no dairy. In other words, if I had Morrissey's resources, I would eat a more humane diet than he does. In many ways I already do as I consume minuscule quantities of dairy--mostly in the form of milk chocolate when I do indulge.

Keep in mind I am not telling people what to eat. I'm simply pushing back against someone who is by highlighting their hypocrisy.

You're lecturing us on how inhumane the meat and dairy industry is while continuing to eat it. Which surely means that you're deliberately inhumane. This isn't a good trait.
 
A

Anonymous

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Re: Article: "Morrissey: Why I Think He Should Be Applauded For His Animal Rights Convictions" by Ba

moz is the one hectoring and lecturin, not rb.
the funny thing is his fans have sat thru his meat is murder schtick numerous times and are more than familiar with the line of talk, but when he stays at the five star hotel, where one of his rants may make a difference he stays totally mum and seems totally unconcerned about the sizzle of steak yards away. room service trays parade in front of his room daily without arousing the slightest concern in him.

i still have not got over the theory that brummie is trolling because he posts about moz in a moz forum. that needs further explanation.
 

realitybites

making lemonade
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Re: Article: "Morrissey: Why I Think He Should Be Applauded For His Animal Rights Convictions" by Ba

You're lecturing us on how inhumane the meat and dairy industry is while continuing to eat it. Which surely means that you're deliberately inhumane. This isn't a good trait.

I am not lecturing. I am agreeing with the cold hard facts. A dairy cow must give birth every one to two years in order to keep lactating to give you milk. What should we do with her male calves? You gonna feed and house them until their natural lives expire? I am a realist. I think the milk industry is worse than the meat industry for many reasons. Confinement of cows who are kept continually lactating and or pregnant with swollen, infected, painful, pus-filled udders throughout their entire lives, while hooked up to machines that squash, pull, and suck their fluids from them until they become lame and can no longer produce milk so that they then become low-grade hamburger meat at your kids' school cafeteria is just one of them.
 

realitybites

making lemonade
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Re: I win

How can anyone who consumes dairy claim to care about animal suffering while keeping a straight face? I'm looking at you CG, Morrissey, Midnite and all the other high on their horse types who attempt through video and other propaganda to make meat eaters feel guilty for their dietary habits while participating in the meat industry themselves?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: I win

How can anyone who consumes dairy claim to care about animal suffering while keeping a straight face? I'm looking at you CG, Morrissey, Midnite and all the other high on their horse types who attempt through video and other propaganda to make meat eaters feel guilty for their dietary habits while participating in the meat industry themselves?

conflicting degrees of gradation im guessing like most everyone. its like saying im against war when i continue to pay taxes that go to the war. i am against the war but it does conflict with other actions i need to take in order to structure my life.
 

Charlie Cheswick

Well-Known Member
Re: I win

How can anyone who consumes dairy claim to care about animal suffering while keeping a straight face? I'm looking at you CG, Morrissey, Midnite and all the other high on their horse types who attempt through video and other propaganda to make meat eaters feel guilty for their dietary habits while participating in the meat industry themselves?

Can we assume that you don't care about animal suffering?
 

2-J

Member
Re: Article: "Morrissey: Why I Think He Should Be Applauded For His Animal Rights Convictions" by Ba

If meat is murder, then cheese is also definitely murder.

However, personally I don't believe meat is murder.
 

realitybites

making lemonade
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Re: Article: "Morrissey: Why I Think He Should Be Applauded For His Animal Rights Convictions" by Ba

If meat is murder, then cheese is also definitely murder.

However, personally I don't believe meat is murder.

That is my position. Murder is a legal term that pertains to humans only.
 

BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy - "Facebook Non-Entity"
Re: Article: "Morrissey: Why I Think He Should Be Applauded For His Animal Rights Convictions" by Ba

Why? I am not claiming meat is murder. There is no hypocrisy or cognitive dissonance. I have no opposition to consuming sustainably grown and harvested mollusks--and neither should you or anyone else. If I had the means, I could and would live off them, vegetables and rice, and would consume no dairy. In other words, if I had Morrissey's resources, I would eat a more humane diet than he does. In many ways I already do as I consume minuscule quantities of dairy--mostly in the form of milk chocolate when I do indulge.

Keep in mind I am not telling people what to eat. I'm simply pushing back against someone who is by highlighting their hypocrisy.

Excellent comment. I agree with you. Mussels do not appear to be Sentient. Veganism is a human-centred construct based on the biological taxonomy of Animalia, but I personally think the Buddhist concepts of Sentient Beings and Ahimsa are more meaningful. I personally don't eat mussles but there's no rational reason not to as they lack the biological capacity to suffer. And they purify water, can be grown in nets and harevested without killing anything else, unlike agricultural crops which kill rodents, etc. Some plants eat insects, so there's are anomalies. Not that anybody eats Venus Fly Traps! I think 'plant-based' diet is better than Veganism but it just confuses people because it includes people like yourself, Bill Clinton and Beyonce who are minimising, but not eliminating animal produce. I think your dietary ethics are far more congruent and coherent than Morrissey's emotionalism. Morrissey would really have to be a Jain Vegan to justify his absurd phobic emoting about meat. By eating cheese, Morrissey is supporting and endorsing the economics of veal. I cannot see how anybody can refute that statement.

The issue of resources is very important. Morrissey lecturing people on minimum wage about being murderers for eating hamburgers whilst eating luxury cheeses in 5* hotels is an affront to economic justice.

best
BB

[h=1]Dairy farming and Hinsa (Cruelty) - Should we as Jains consume milk products?[/h]

http://www.atmadharma.com/shastras/vegetarian_food_and_jain_conduct_eng_txt/vfjcmpmilk.html


http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177414
 

realitybites

making lemonade
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Re: I win

Can we assume that you don't care about animal suffering?

I care about animal and human suffering. I think suffering, unfortunately, is a part of all life. A female suffers when she gives birth. We suffer with infection, fever, toothaches, disease, starvation, overcrowding, noise pollution, air pollution, loss, betrayal, heat stroke, menstrual cramps. There has always been suffering and always will be. Minimizing suffering must be the goal--not eradicating it entirely, which is unrealistic. There is no understanding nor enjoyment of pleasure without pain as its contrast. We must have lows in order to see the highs. Jmo.
 

BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy - "Facebook Non-Entity"
Re: I win

How can anyone who consumes dairy claim to care about animal suffering while keeping a straight face? I'm looking at you CG, Morrissey, Midnite and all the other high on their horse types who attempt through video and other propaganda to make meat eaters feel guilty for their dietary habits while participating in the meat industry themselves?

^THIS!

If you eat cheese or drink milk, the only rational thing to do is eat veal. If you're just 'out-sourcing' the issue of unwanted dairy bull carves to carnivores so you can demonise and dehumanise them as 'the other', as 'murderers', then I'd suggest it's just projection, refusing to accept the shadow side of cruelty that's served with your cheese sandwich! Your dietary approach is actually more honest. I'd rather be a beefsteak cow than a dairy heiffer, any day, any day, any day. At least you're not continuously raped and shackled to milking machines.

best
BB
 

BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy - "Facebook Non-Entity"
Re: I win

Can we assume that you don't care about animal suffering?

There's no basis on which to say Reality Bites supports animal suffering more than Morrissey does. By eating meat but avoiding dairy, she's probably implicated in less animal suffering than Morrissey or the other Cheese-etarians on this forum who defend him,to defend themselves from examining their behaviour too rigorously.

Many well-meaning vegetarians find animal cruelty abhorrent whilst accepting that there must be some suffering and slaughter to ensure they have eggs, milk and cheese. But they don't go around calling others 'murderers' simply because they avoid one part of the animal (flesh) whilst consuming other elements (milk). To claim that 'meat is murder' but 'milk for cheese is justifiable homicide' is a total absurdity.

best
BB
 

Charlie Cheswick

Well-Known Member
Re: I win

I care about animal and human suffering. I think suffering, unfortunately, is a part of all life. A female suffers when she gives birth. We suffer with infection, fever, toothaches, disease, starvation, overcrowding, noise pollution, air pollution, loss, betrayal, heat stroke, menstrual cramps. There has always been suffering and always will be. Minimizing suffering must be the goal--not eradicating it entirely, which is unrealistic. There is no understanding nor enjoyment of pleasure without pain as its contrast. We must have lows in order to see the highs. Jmo.

So, considering that every single person knows your position on Morrissey, and you march on over animals regardless of their suffering, can we put this one to bed?

Otherwise you'll come across as one Hell of a hypocrite. None of us want that.

- - - Updated - - -

There's no basis on which to say Reality Bites supports animal suffering more than Morrissey does. By eating meat but avoiding dairy, she's probably implicated in less animal suffering than Morrissey or the other Cheese-etarians on this forum who defend him,to defend themselves from examining their behaviour too rigorously.

Many well-meaning vegetarians find animal cruelty abhorrent whilst accepting that there must be some suffering and slaughter to ensure they have eggs, milk and cheese. But they don't go around calling others 'murderers' simply because they avoid one part of the animal (flesh) whilst consuming other elements (milk). To claim that 'meat is murder' but 'milk for cheese is justifiable homicide' is a total absurdity.

best
BB

2,907-0
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
Re: Article: "Morrissey

Excellent comment. I agree with you. Mussels do not appear to be Sentient. Veganism is a human-centred construct based on the biological taxonomy of Animalia, but I personally think the Buddhist concepts of Sentient Beings and Ahimsa are more meaningful. I personally don't eat mussles but there's no rational reason not to as they lack the biological capacity to suffer. And they purify water, can be grown in nets and harevested without killing anything else, unlike agricultural crops which kill rodents, etc. Some plants eat insects, so there's are anomalies. Not that anybody eats Venus Fly Traps! I think 'plant-based' diet is better than Veganism but it just confuses people because it includes people like yourself, Bill Clinton and Beyonce who are minimising, but not eliminating animal produce. I think your dietary ethics are far more congruent and coherent than Morrissey's emotionalism. Morrissey would really have to be a Jain Vegan to justify his absurd phobic emoting about meat. By eating cheese, Morrissey is supporting and endorsing the economics of veal. I cannot see how anybody can refute that statement.

The issue of resources is very important. Morrissey lecturing people on minimum wage about being murderers for eating hamburgers whilst eating luxury cheeses in 5* hotels is an affront to economic justice.

best
BB

[h=1]Dairy farming and Hinsa (Cruelty) - Should we as Jains consume milk products?[/h]

http://www.atmadharma.com/shastras/vegetarian_food_and_jain_conduct_eng_txt/vfjcmpmilk.html


http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177414

Thanks. Will be away from my computer the rest of the morning. Will check out links when I return. Enjoy the rest of your afternoon. :)

- - - Updated - - -

So, considering that every single person knows your position on Morrissey, and you march on over animals regardless of their suffering, can we put this one to bed?

Otherwise you'll come across as one Hell of a hypocrite. None of us want that.

We are all hypocrites--some more than others. *Looks at Morrissey.

Have a nice day Charlie. :)
 
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BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy - "Facebook Non-Entity"
Re: I win

I care about animal and human suffering. I think suffering, unfortunately, is a part of all life. A female suffers when she gives birth. We suffer with infection, fever, toothaches, disease, starvation, overcrowding, noise pollution, air pollution, loss, betrayal, heat stroke, menstrual cramps. There has always been suffering and always will be. Minimizing suffering must be the goal--not eradicating it entirely, which is unrealistic. There is no understanding nor enjoyment of pleasure without pain as its contrast. We must have lows in order to see the highs. Jmo.

I do not share your worldview but I respect it as coherent and valid. Even vegans kill animals by eating industrial agricultural crops which cannot be harvested without the death of rodents and insects. I think it is possible to massively reduce suffering and thus choose to eliminate as much animal suffering from my consumer habits as possible, accepting that eating wheat involves death of sentient creatures, etc.

"There is no understanding nor enjoyment of pleasure without pain as its contrast. We must have lows in order to see the highs."

The last two lines of your comment should be in the 50 Shades & Depression threads.

best
BB
 

evennow

Writers on the storm
Re: I win

I do not share your worldview but I respect it as coherent and valid. Even vegans kill animals by eating industrial agricultural crops which cannot be harvested without the death of rodents and insects. I think it is possible to massively reduce suffering and thus choose to eliminate as much animal suffering from my consumer habits as possible, accepting that eating wheat involves death of sentient creatures, etc.

"There is no understanding nor enjoyment of pleasure without pain as its contrast. We must have lows in order to see the highs."

The last two lines of your comment should be in the 50 Shades & Depression threads.

best
BB

I think you have just put forth the true issue at hand here...how far up the scale of meat vs. veg do we each choose to place ourselves. Like a timeline with meat and cheese eaters at the far left and those who completely refrain on the other.

I keep running the "right vs. wrong" argument in my head and I believe it is up to the individual to determine how they wish to conduct their lives even if there is disagreement. And if this disagreement leads to discussion or debate all the better because, at the very least, it helps one get a better understanding of the other's position.

I am a meat eater, I support a woman's right to choose regarding abortion, and the death penalty. These are my beliefs, and I do not feel "wrong" for having them. What I do think everyone can agree upon is that animals feel pain and no sane person could reasonably believe otherwise.

And this is where your 2,909 or so posts resonate clearly. ;) I do not espouse myself to be anything more than I am whereas Morrissey has been quite outspoken on the subject and appears to be able to talk the talk, but less able to walk the walk of his espoused beliefs. Much like a preacher preaching from the pulpit about being faithful to one's wife while having an affair with another woman himself.

You have been very reasonable about expressing your views towards those who are of a different mind, which is why I quite enjoy these discussions. Plus you have a very good sense of humor when it comes to those who choose to go up against you. That is an important quality to have in all aspects of life.
 
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