"Can Morrissey’s Musical Legacy Survive His Bad Press?" - Dallas Observer (July 16, 2019)

pandaproducts

Active Member
Good response.
Yes, I know sociologists often base a movement's place upon the political spectrum on its response to hierarchy.
In that case, you're correct in saying that fascism accepts and enforces hierarchy and therefore ends up on the right.
I don't think the question should be how those ideals were decided. Rather, how it was decided that these particular ideals would determine where a system lies on the political spectrum, when using other ideals might arrange the systems a bit differently.

For example, if you instead base a system's placement on governmental regulations on personal property, you get a different result. Conservatives generally place far more emphasis on the individual to manage their own affairs and they don't want the interference of government in doing so. Communism and fascism are alike in the fact that they both nationalized property. Communism did so overtly, obviously. Fascism required business owners to use their property solely in the national interests, which were actually the interests of the autocratic leader. That certainly isn't in line with right-wing ideals.

In fascism, we see an elimination of the individual, as all must be employees of the State, or collectivist tactics are enforced. The group identity is placed above the individual. Liberals today advocate for a system of identity politics which invariably places the group identity above the individual one. Yes, using the measuring stick of hierarchy, this is consistent with the left's ideals, as the ultimate goal of identity politics is to giver everyone an equal opportunity and equal representation. Still, the loss of personal identity found within fascism is closer to these ideals than the ideals of the right wing, which believes in individualism and working one's own way to the top without government hand-outs.
Also, an egalitarian ideal was somewhat present in fascist states as well- to a certain degree. All Germans were to be equal, but the Jews were less than human. All Italians were equal under the law, but all other countries were lesser.
Stalin was a communist, but he wanted to make the Soviet Union a world power. That's encouraging hierarchy. Was Stalin right wing, then?

Fascism doesn't fit perfectly on the right because, along with some right wing ideals, it also incorporates some left wing ideals. Now, if you want to use the same measuring stick to decide whether a system is right or left- fine. I'm just arguing that it's a bit muddy and not quite so clear-cut as you make it seem.

Hierarchical class system within the state is not equal to wanting to be a world power. Two totally different things. Leftism does not call for the elimination of the individual in the slightest. If you read Marx's works, they are all about the alienation of the individual in the present capitalist system.
 

FantiQ

Active Member
Hierarchical class system within the state is not equal to wanting to be a world power. Two totally different things. Leftism does not call for the elimination of the individual in the slightest. If you read Marx's works, they are all about the alienation of the individual in the present capitalist system.
And how did that translate in Soviet Russia and Red China?
 
V

vegan cro spirit 555

Guest
Hierarchical class system within the state is not equal to wanting to be a world power. Two totally different things. Leftism does not call for the elimination of the individual in the slightest. If you read Marx's works, they are all about the alienation of the individual in the present capitalist system.

doh:

NOT in the slightest???:lbf:
Marx was liquored up when he wrote all that nonsense FFS.:fuelpump:
 
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