Could a reformed Smiths (or a Morrissey & Marr) sell out Heaton Park several times?

Maurice E

Junior Member
The demand for the Stone Roses concerts (220,000 tickets sold in one hour) is pretty phenomenal for a band that was never that big. They operated on the scale of a fairly successful late 80's indie band - no number one singles, modest album sales etc, nothing like scale of the million+ selling Coldplay, Oasis, Blur, Radiohead etc albums of the 90's and 2000's.
I maintain that the sales for the Heaton Park dates have been inflated considerably (perhaps 20%) by the greedy touts, (and you will easily get a ticket a face-value nearer the time) but the demand is still pretty phenomenal.
So, could a reformed Smiths (or, more realistically, Morrissey&Marr + rhythm section) attract a similar demand? Like the Stone Roses they were also never a huge band - none of their studio albums has gone Platinum (300,000), although a couple of compilations have.
Remember the fuss Morrissey made when he eventually sold out the Manchester Evening Arena? The capacity of the MEN arena is a mere 20,000 - and that was billed as a one-off date when tickets were released, although eventually became part of a tour.
So what do you think? Would there really be such a massive surge in demand if Marr and Morrissey got back together?
Let's all have a heated debate!
 
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Heated debate?

It's bloody obvious that M&M gigs will sell out in record breaking time.
 
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Nostalgia sells. I think location plays a big part for both acts, too. Stone Roses and Morrissey/Marr would be playing on home ground, so quite obviously Manchester gigs are going to sell out faster than some obscure civil halls in Scotland or whatever. It's a no-brainer.
 
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A London gig with a reformed Smiths I think would be massive and I think they could make as much money as they wanted to touring the UK indefinitely.
 
Re: Could a reformed Smiths (or a Morrissey & Marr) sell out Heaton Park several time

Good lord. As if the question needs to be asked.
 
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I don't haaaaaaaaave to sell my souuuuuuuul
He's already in me

I don't neeeeeeeeeed to sell my souuuuuuuul
He's already in me

:D
 
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A reformed Smiths would absolutely sell out Heaton Park 3 times over (at least). Easy. It would be The Smiths, IN MANCHESTER ffs.

I imagine the figures involved would be more than what the Roses are making as well.

Moz/Marr (the much more realistic option and the one most hardcores such as ourseves would be most happy with, I imagine) would be more difficult as they obviously couldn't market it as The Smiths.
 
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It is an interesting question MauriceE, and one I've thought about too in the last week. Pretty sure Morrissey and Marr will have cocked an ear too ~ £12 million? In 69 minutes you say? Hmmmm....

It's an applicable scenario in the sense that the Roses were the next 'big' band post-Smiths, who were never actually 'big'. Before Nirvana you had indie big or you had shit big, ie the stuff that shed loads of people actually bought. After Nirvana you just had big. No alternative anymore, no indie, everything just became sucked into the mainstream and packaged, compartmentalised and sold as indie/alternative. After Nirvana, 'indie' big meant Oasis at Wembley. Stadium, not Arena. We've now had twenty years of this regime, although it's pretty much at the hiding-in-a-sewer stage thanks to to the internet,etc.

So in this post-Nirvana nirvana a band like the Stone Roses, who died an inky indie death at the fag end of Thatcherism are resurrected (sorry!) into Cameron&Cowell's bright&shiny Big Society Britain, and they're suddenly all over the mainstream media. Profiles on Radio Four, tear stained reveries in the Guardian, etc. It seems an odd fit at first, but it's just boring old time - those inky indie kids, even the posh ones, have grown old and taken over the world, or inherited it from daddy anyway.
I heard Liam Gallagher say something quite sensible on Radio 4 last night, on that afore-mentioned profile piece; he warned people that they shouldn't expect 1989 when they get to Heaton Park next summer, cos it's not 1989. Which is true, but I wonder what percentage of the 300,000 wish that it was.

So could M&M pull off the same numbers? It would seem to be a no-brainer, and yet in my head I just can't see it. I know I'm Paranoid Patty but I can't see the same universal adoration (sorry!) being poured on M&M as has been the case with the Roses. I know there were a couple of call outs about the divorce tour, but it's been pretty much universal fairytale acclaim otherwise. I think there would be a far greater level of cynicism at M&M, simply cos of the whole Mad Morrissey 'thing', which is pretty much endemic right now.

One other thing that jm26 just mentioned that I hadn't thought of - could Morrisey and Marr not market it as The Smiths? If they ever did do 'a Roses' I'm pretty sure Morrissey could live with Andy Rourke on stage, but it would never happen with Joyce. But, legally, could the 'legendary' drummer object? I know people would say morally, or whatever, it's not the Smiths, but I'm pretty certain that if Morrissey and Marr chose to say it was the Smiths, we are The Smiths, they could do it. Couldn't they? Let's face it, if they announced it tomorrow as The Smiths at Tatton Park next summer, tickets next Friday, would anybody say 'without Mike, I won't be there!'...?
 
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There was a piece in the Guardian yesterday about the Stone Roses revival, at the very end there is a list of bands that refuse to get back together - Abba, The Jam, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Talking Heads and The Smiths.
"There is more chance of peace in the middle east than a rapprochement between Morrissey and Marr. It seams more miraculous that they stayed together as long as they did. When Morrissey burns his bridges, they stay burned."​

Wrong on so many counts - M&M get one well on the rare occasions they get together. It wasn't Morrissey that burned his bridges with the Smiths, it was Marr that jumped first. Still, the final line is true - there's no coming back for Mike Joyce.

Dave
 
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There was a piece in the Guardian yesterday about the Stone Roses revival, at the very end there is a list of bands that refuse to get back together - Abba, The Jam, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Talking Heads and The Smiths.
"There is more chance of peace in the middle east than a rapprochement between Morrissey and Marr. It seams more miraculous that they stayed together as long as they did. When Morrissey burns his bridges, they stay burned."​

Wrong on so many counts - M&M get one well on the rare occasions they get together. It wasn't Morrissey that burned his bridges with the Smiths, it was Marr that jumped first. Still, the final line is true - there's no coming back for Mike Joyce.

Dave

So true Dave. Morrissey didn't "burn bridges" with Marr - Marr left, so essentially it was he burning the bridges. By Marr's own admission he would/has since considered a reunion ("I'm not rich enough to turn that kind of money down"), and even Moz doesn't seem as resolute as he once was regarding Johnny (remember when he was asked about it during the Front Row interview? Non-denial denial. "The union was perfect", etc). I think it will happen, one way or another, before both publish their autobiographies and effectively retire.
 
Re: Could a reformed Smiths (or a Morrissey & Marr) sell out Heaton Park several time

I think they will reform. With Mike Joyce. Halfway through The Queen is Dead's drum-laden intro, Morrissey will pull out a tarnished service revolver and fire a single round into the middle of Joyce's face. Then he'll turn to the crowd and roar, "'Mad Morrissey' that, you motherf***ers!"

I'm pretty certain that's how it'll go down. :)
 
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So true Dave. Morrissey didn't "burn bridges" with Marr - Marr left, so essentially it was he burning the bridges. By Marr's own admission he would/has since considered a reunion ("I'm not rich enough to turn that kind of money down"), and even Moz doesn't seem as resolute as he once was regarding Johnny (remember when he was asked about it during the Front Row interview? Non-denial denial. "The union was perfect", etc). I think it will happen, one way or another, before both publish their autobiographies and effectively retire.

Amy, I just re-listened to that Front Row interview and Moz actually sounded very resolute about not reuniting. He just simply said "No, it's not gonna happen." Nothing about the "union was perfect", so maybe you are remembering another interview. He also said that the autobiography will be coming out in a year (we'll see about that) so I doubt they will reform before then, not with Johnny's focus on the Healer's so evident.
 
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Amy, I just re-listened to that Front Row interview and Moz actually sounded very resolute about not reuniting. He just simply said "No, it's not gonna happen." Nothing about the "union was perfect", so maybe you are remembering another interview. He also said that the autobiography will be coming out in a year (we'll see about that) so I doubt they will reform before then, not with Johnny's focus on the Healer's so evident.

Hi swift eclipse - yes, I've realised it's not from the Front Row interview but I thought it was around the same time. I Googled a quote I remembered from it, and it turns out to be from this rather lovely Telegraph interview.

Excerpt:

Daily Telegraph: You’ve said time and again that The Smiths will never reform. But what about just you and Johnny Marr getting together on stage and playing the old songs? So many people would love that – is it really impossible?

Morrissey: More important than what you’ve just said is my belief that it was musically so good and so perfect and then it ended, and that was Fate taking control. And that’s how it should be.

Daily Telegraph: So if the two of you were to play one more concert together, you think that would tarnish everything?

Morrissey: I think whether it did look wrong or it didn’t look wrong, many people would say it looked wrong. And I have enough to live with as things stand, without more accusations and more criticism.

Daily Telegraph: Forget the criticism. Think of all the people who would love it.

Morrissey: But then there’s something about the public always wanting a reformation here and there from such a body and such a band, just simply because they feel, “We’re the public and we can demand it.” And once it happens, nobody’s actually really interested. I mean, can you think of a reformation that continued to be fantastic after the first articles and the first concerts and so forth? After the reformation, six months later, all the musicians begin to feel how they always did about each other. And it rots.

Daily Telegraph: But at the Hop Farm festival in July, you’re playing on the same bill as The Stooges. They reformed. Doesn’t that show it can work?

Morrissey: Well… it can work for The Stooges…



Forgive me, but that sounds very much like a non-denial denial to me. Morrissey isn't known to mince his words and I think if he was really, vehemently against the idea of reuniting with Marr then he would have said so in much stronger language. And....the Healers? They're just an excuse for Marr to tour Smiths songs.
 
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Hi swift eclipse - yes, I've realised it's not from the Front Row interview but I thought it was around the same time. I Googled a quote I remembered from it, and it turns out to be from this rather lovely Telegraph interview.

Excerpt:

Daily Telegraph: You’ve said time and again that The Smiths will never reform. But what about just you and Johnny Marr getting together on stage and playing the old songs? So many people would love that – is it really impossible?

Morrissey: More important than what you’ve just said is my belief that it was musically so good and so perfect and then it ended, and that was Fate taking control. And that’s how it should be.

Daily Telegraph: So if the two of you were to play one more concert together, you think that would tarnish everything?

Morrissey: I think whether it did look wrong or it didn’t look wrong, many people would say it looked wrong. And I have enough to live with as things stand, without more accusations and more criticism.

Daily Telegraph: Forget the criticism. Think of all the people who would love it.

Morrissey: But then there’s something about the public always wanting a reformation here and there from such a body and such a band, just simply because they feel, “We’re the public and we can demand it.” And once it happens, nobody’s actually really interested. I mean, can you think of a reformation that continued to be fantastic after the first articles and the first concerts and so forth? After the reformation, six months later, all the musicians begin to feel how they always did about each other. And it rots.

Daily Telegraph: But at the Hop Farm festival in July, you’re playing on the same bill as The Stooges. They reformed. Doesn’t that show it can work?

Morrissey: Well… it can work for The Stooges…



Forgive me, but that sounds very much like a non-denial denial to me. Morrissey isn't known to mince his words and I think if he was really, vehemently against the idea of reuniting with Marr then he would have said so in much stronger language. And....the Healers? They're just an excuse for Marr to tour Smiths songs.

Still sounds like a firm "No, thanks." to me.

But all is conjecture until it happens...or doesn't.

And don't let Johnny hear you talkin' about his motives that way or he'll ban ya! ;)
 
Re: Could a reformed Smiths (or a Morrissey & Marr) sell out Heaton Park several time

I wanna be a door.
 
Re: Could a reformed Smiths (or a Morrissey & Marr) sell out Heaton Park several time

I think it would be a disaster! As an artist, for me, Morrissey stands out because he has not become an '80's nostalga cabaret singer, he has continued to produce new material and has progressed steadily since the Smiths. I think his post Smiths work is as strong if not better than the stuff he did with the Smiths. If he did a reunion it would be pure nostalga, they'd do a Smiths greatest hits set. Now ask yourself, can you seriously see him doing this? I would imagine he's far more interested in the next album, or atleast I hope he is.
 
Re: Could a reformed Smiths (or a Morrissey & Marr) sell out Heaton Park several time

I'd say no, the Smiths reformed wouldn't sell out Heaton Park three times over.

Then again, Morrissey sold out the Hollywood Bowl in record time (beating a record set by The Beatles) in 1992 & he wasn't selling all that many records in the US even then.

Maybe they would. Only one way to find out.
 
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