Does Moz hate his female fans?

hand in glove

Life is never kind
Claiming I spend ten hours a day, every day, here (pretending to know something you don't know)--as if to insinuate exactly what?--was not meant to be an insult? OK. You can back peddle if it gets you where you need to go.

Look, Jehne, the time line speaks for itself, here. I guess I just don't know how anybody has that much time to post - that's all. By the way, I am where I need to be, no back peddling required.
 
Laziness is a character flaw, imo. Grammar. I hope you are not too lazy to click that link.

i didn't click it. hovering my cursor over it was enough. i know the definition of grammar.

i didn't ask for character flaws.

could you please point out the grammatical errors i made in that sentence? we've covered my capitalisation. that was just for starters though.
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
i didn't click it. hovering my cursor over it was enough. i know the definition of grammar.

i didn't ask for character flaws.

could you please point out the grammatical errors i made in that sentence? we've covered my capitalisation. that was just for starters though.

Caps was enough. Moving on.
 

CrystalGeezer

My secret's my enzyme.
Caps was enough. Moving on.

Please explain what a Euler Circle has to do with humanism, feminism, Morrissey or ANYTHING on this thread. Your answer may not include the word "polemics" as I have to work early in the morning.
 

CrystalGeezer

My secret's my enzyme.
Have you taken logic? I didn't think so.

I have three quarters of university logic under my belt. Now please explain your justification in dropping the Euler bomb. :squiffy:
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
I have three quarters of university logic under my belt. Now please explain your justification in dropping the Euler bomb. :squiffy:

2. I am a humanist. This would of course also make me a feminist by default.

10735464553_b0888c934d_o.jpg


All humanists are feminists.

If you are still in the dark, I'm afraid there if nothing I can do to enlighten you.
 
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CrystalGeezer

My secret's my enzyme.
2. I am a humanist. This would of course also make me a feminist by default.

10735464553_b0888c934d_o.jpg


All humanists are feminists.

If you are still in the dark, I'm afraid there if nothing I can do to enlighten you.

This is a simple Venn Diagram. Name dropping a Euler circle is like saying "Could you pass the sodium chloride?" This has what logician's would call a false attribution. Please feel free to expand on how your argument is enhanced by Feuerbach's 19th century geometrical theorem. :popcorn:
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
This is a simple Venn Diagram. Name dropping a Euler circle is like saying "Could you pass the sodium chloride?" This has what logician's would call a false attribution. Please feel free to expand on how your argument is enhanced by Feuerbach's 19th century geometrical theorem. :popcorn:

You are too much. Go read that book.
 
N

Nadja

Guest
I didn't feel that way about the passage. I recently read Richard Hell's autobiography, and when he wrote about his teenaged sexual experiences in the early 60s (in the American South), the female reticence was similar, though Hell certainly enjoyed it more. Despite birth control, a lot of women felt like they had to keep up a pretence of just "letting" the man have sex with them. They felt like they could retain their status as a "good girl" if they didn't enjoy it or really particpate. That whole ritual of resistance had gone on for hundreds or thousands of years, so there's no way it could change overnight. I'm sure some of the time they really WERE unwilling, but thought they needed to do it to keep the man. Of course, that still goes on, but the cultural expectation now is to pretend to enjoy it.

Even though Moz's experiences took place later, Manchester was pretty old-fashioned. So I thought the tone of what he wrote had a lot to do with that--the disappointment and confusion he felt when the experiences didn't match up with society's portrayal. Most people aren't that thrilled to do it with an unwilling (pretend or otherwise) partner.

I met Morrissey a couple of times at my job (bookstore) back in 2005. I found him very, very nice, gracious, and I don't think he was thinking about my "open grave" :)
 

CrystalGeezer

My secret's my enzyme.
A

Anonymous

Guest
I agree with most of what you have written.

What I am hung up on is this:

"whatever is sung is the case" - last line of autobiography. In addition, Moz has repeatedly said that the truth is in the songs.

However, "the woman of my dreams, she never came along, the woman of my dreams, well there never was one" was written around the time that he was supposedly with Tina. I always believed, as he said, that the he spoke of his feelings, personal life, etc only in song. So there seems to be an incongruity with this statement. This is a bit off topic, just calling it as I see it.

I think that Moz respects his female fans but may relate to his male fans more (looks-wise, gender-wise) not sure how.










I am going to play the Devil’s advocate. He likes both as it says in black and white in the book. Do I think that he prefers men, yes but all in all, women as well.
From what I gather from reading the book (3 times) is that his mother seems to have been the only "feminine “influence in his life. She by all accounts was both a father and mother figure to him. Feminine yet strong and classy - Which I am assuming is the type of women he prefers. He has stated himself that he likes strong women.
His description of the female encounters that he has had I think are in direct response to what his mother was – classy, tough, sweet yet determined. Most of them sound like an English version of a honey boo boo woman. They were not elegant, refined or by any means glamorous. His idea maybe was influences by the films that he saw? He mentions CID SHERISE and other women. Anna, the fan in the hotel etc. Kristen Young
Tina, from what I gather is his first adult relationship with a woman that was actually a “relationship” – as he stated he only had scraps and the prospect was daunting to him.
I have seen a picture of her and she is the burlesque scene of the importance of Morrissey video. From reading the book she seems like a generally calm, thoughtful and overall nice person. Her background seems to show that she did not have an easy beginning and from what I gather she is a bit younger than him. Per the internet she is 38 someone said which would make her about 24 or mid-twenties when they were together. I don’t think that she was a mother figure to him. It sounded like a regular relationship to me. He doesn’t go into depth as much as his relationship with Jake but I think Jake was his first love and it was all so new to him. Tina seems to be a rational intelligent and thoughtful person and still a big part of his life. Jake is as well from what I understand. Also why would he put that in the book if it were not true (I am going to get flack ok then) I think Tina would have issue with it if were a farce. He seems to value both of them still.
And again I will say that he prefers both men and women – not big girls – but women as well. He has stated that he can be attracted like any man to a woman. I am just saying what he has said before.
The book does show that he really really doesn’t like fat people. As a former “fatty” myself I don’t necessarily disagree entirely.

I think the point is that he really doesn’t see any distinctinon between a man and a woman as a romantic partner. Humans are humans. The bits and pieces that go with the gender are not so important to him. He does again seem to admire the male form but again in his words he had a late development when it came to women (interview somewhere).

My only hope is that he meets someone – man or woman who makes him happy.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
He speaks highly of his female family members. But almost all sexual, intellectual, and emotional attraction seems oriented towards males... from very early on. He fawns over the male body as if it is art. The female form? Not so much. Actually, not at all. Crissie Hynde is funny... in an almost characteristically masculine way... biting a dog in the neck. She is definitely an alpha female. And a bit androgynous. That may be appealing to Mozzer. And as for token Tina? She reads more like a mother figure than a lover in my opinion.

So does he hate his female fans? Probably not. But I think he certainly admires the male ones more.

As far as weight goes, he refers to himself as being fat a few times in the book. He has a thing with being thin. Body dysmorphic disorder? Who knows. But his weight issues are not just about women. Thin is a virtue--for himself.

"And as for token Tina?" That's bullshit. She is the only person that got a dedication that was actually in the book. She sounds like someone that he loves and is in awe of. I don't know if it is/was romantic. I don't actually care. He said that period of his life was his happiest and insinuated that it was because of Tina. He's definitely more attracted to men physically the heart falls for the soul of a person. Love is greater than lust and sex and body parts. Love is small gestures. "Lifetime constant"
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
"And as for token Tina?" That's bullshit. She is the only person that got a dedication that was actually in the book. She sounds like someone that he loves and is in awe of. I don't know if it is/was romantic. I don't actually care. He said that period of his life was his happiest and insinuated that it was because of Tina. He's definitely more attracted to men physically the heart falls for the soul of a person. Love is greater than lust and sex and body parts. Love is small gestures. "Lifetime constant"

And you know this to be false because? Your argument does not refute the claim. You don't know her. You don't know if she really exists. She may be real. She may be a friend. She may have been a lover. She may be a token hetero female.
 
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