For Britain YT: "We're proud to stand with Morrissey" (April 20, 2021)

gashonthenail

Well-Known Member
You've made an assertion and I've called you out on it so it's up to you to provide some evidence to back up your assertion. If you can't or won't then we can treat your assertion with the contempt it almost certainly deserves.

Do some research. You have access to Google?

The question is should we care. That's the important question.
 

gashonthenail

Well-Known Member

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BookishBoy

Well-Known Member
The most sensible research I've seen on this predicted population/demographic change in Europe is linked to here, and goes up to 2050. (I would suggest that anything 5o or 100 years beyond that is pretty much pointless as there are too many variables.)

In a nutshell, under a "Medium" scenario, that research predicts that the UK population will be 17% Muslim by 2050. Whether one chooses to to be upset or worried about this is, of course, a personal choice.
 

gashonthenail

Well-Known Member
The most sensible research I've seen on this predicted population/demographic change in Europe is linked to here, and goes up to 2050. (I would suggest that anything 5o or 100 years beyond that is pretty much pointless as there are too many variables.)

In a nutshell, under a "Medium" scenario, that research predicts that the UK population will be 17% Muslim by 2050. Whether one chooses to to be upset or worried about this is, of course, a personal choice.

This is a pretty good academic study on the topic:

 
D

Deleted member 29235

Guest
The most sensible research I've seen on this predicted population/demographic change in Europe is linked to here, and goes up to 2050. (I would suggest that anything 5o or 100 years beyond that is pretty much pointless as there are too many variables.)

In a nutshell, under a "Medium" scenario, that research predicts that the UK population will be 17% Muslim by 2050. Whether one chooses to to be upset or worried about this is, of course, a personal choice.
The point is there are many potential scenarios based on the data alone, ignoring the social aspects. The social aspects include things like the fact that whilst 1st generation Muslim immigrants tend to retain their strict faith adherence, subsequent generations do not and tend to move towards the social customs of the country in which they reside. So for example, whilst such Muslims will continue to observe Ramadan, they may also celebrate Christmas in the same non-secular way that I do.
But the fundamental problem with such demographic projections is that right-wing racists cherry-pick and twist the data to support the frankly ludicrous notion that at some ill-defined point in the future, 'indigenous' people in the UK will form 49.999% of the population, at which point all the 'non-indigenous' people will settle their differences and gang up on poor ol' whitey. This is why I am deeply suspicious of any assertions made on the basis of such data.
 

gashonthenail

Well-Known Member
The point is there are many potential scenarios based on the data alone, ignoring the social aspects. The social aspects include things like the fact that whilst 1st generation Muslim immigrants tend to retain their strict faith adherence, subsequent generations do not and tend to move towards the social customs of the country in which they reside. So for example, whilst such Muslims will continue to observe Ramadan, they may also celebrate Christmas in the same non-secular way that I do.

Now that's an assertion. The facts, however, suggest something different. Not that assimilation is the issue.

 
D

Deleted member 29235

Guest
Have you tried reading the abstract?
I want to see how much you understand. The trouble is, when all you present is stuff you've found on Google, it makes me doubt that you have much understanding of the topic. The fact that you pointedly avoid any examination of your understanding is quite telling, I think.
Don't ever do a PhD, by the way. When you pitch up to your viva and tell your examiners to 'go and Google the answer,' I think they may just fail you.
 

gashonthenail

Well-Known Member
The most sensible research I've seen on this predicted population/demographic change in Europe is linked to here, and goes up to 2050. (I would suggest that anything 5o or 100 years beyond that is pretty much pointless as there are too many variables.)

In a nutshell, under a "Medium" scenario, that research predicts that the UK population will be 17% Muslim by 2050. Whether one chooses to to be upset or worried about this is, of course, a personal choice.

You are right, the stuff on Pew is excellent. It's not hard to do the math though and take those figures forward into the future as projections.

You are also right that it is impossible to be certain about the next 150 years of European history as the intervening variables are countless. But the pure mathematics of current trends in Europe are hard to ignore - unless of course you're Black Carrot and Uncle Skinflint.
 
D

Deleted member 29235

Guest
You are right, the stuff on Pew is excellent. It's not hard to do the math though and take those figures forward into the future as projections.

You are also right that it is impossible to be certain about the next 150 years of European history as the intervening variables are countless. But the pure mathematics of current trends in Europe are hard to ignore - unless of course you're Black Carrot and Uncle Skinflint.
It's not about 'pure mathematics' though, is it? This is where your argument falls down.
 
R

R.I.P. Moz 2021

Guest
Trump, yes. But suddenly hating Anne Marie would be completely out of character - especially after he expressed such affection for her and her political opinions and party. It would make no sense at all.

Morrissey may feel bullied at the moment, but he has a strong skin.

He said he has recently "lost a high profile friend" (a coward in my eyes) and is clearly upset about it. That is all.

In the (pre-totalitarian) past, this was a price you didn't have to pay for having opinions.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 “a coward in my eyes” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
You are allowing your hatred of AMW to cloud your judgement Karen - hatred based on the speech you quote above where she appears to support the idea of the Great Replacement. Whether that term is helpful or useful or not - Europe has changed and is changing. Most demographic experts predict that by the year 2150, barring a major shift in current trends, Europe will be a largely Muslim continent with whites and Christians as minorities. Should we care? That is the question. But don't hate AMW for simply pointing that fact out. And in terms of that question - should we care? - it seems clear that Moz does.

Her hate is the problem.

For a start - Europe has had Muslim populations for centuries.

For another - most Muslims are white - the Middle-East is right bloody next to us - Europe is Eurasia.

For another - you cannot predict who is going to be religious before they're born. Christianity is the world's biggest religion & it's growing. So is secularism.

And lastly, Morrissey has said no such thing. Culture is a different argument, which is why racists keep trying to use it to disguise their racism. Plus Morrissey was considering adding to your woes by having a child with an Iranian. She was born there.
 
D

Deleted member 29235

Guest
Demographic modelling is absolutely based on pure mathematics. What do you think it is based on? This is where your lack of knowledge on the subject is glaringly obvious.
Demographic modelling avoids the social aspects of what it is modelling. As such it is next to useless as evidence for the likelihood or not of white extinction, which is basically what you and For Britain are trying to prove will happen.
With the papers you found on Google, all they indicate is that (a) in the future in some countries there may be more Muslims than any other religious or racial group, and (b) Muslims may integrate into their host countries' social norms more slowly than other groups. Neither of these prove your original assertion regarding 'most demographic experts.'
 

gashonthenail

Well-Known Member
Her hate is the problem.

For a start - Europe has had Muslim populations for centuries.

For another - most Muslims are white - the Middle-East is right bloody next to us - Europe is Eurasia.

For another - you cannot predict who is going to be religious before they're born. Christianity is the world's biggest religion & it's growing. So is secularism.

And lastly, Morrissey has said no such thing. Culture is a different argument, which is why racists keep trying to use it to disguise their racism. Plus Morrissey was considering adding to your woes by having a child with an Iranian. She was born there.

I've never heard her express hatred of any Muslim. Nor have I or would I.

Modelling makes predictions about gender and ethnicity and religion all the time - how do you think schools and family planning centres operate?

The demographic prediction quoted makes no reference to skin colour.

Islam is already considered the largest 'adhered to' faith in Europe and the UK.

And I think Moz would absolutely care if the majority of people in Europe wanted to buy halal slaughtered meat. Although most schools and hospitals in the UK already provide that and nothing else.

Moz having a relationship with a man or a woman of any faith or no faith would cause me no woes. And it clearly caused no woes to AMW as her admiration for the man is very clear.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
I've never heard her express hatred of any Muslim. Nor have I or would I.

Modelling makes predictions about gender and ethnicity and religion all the time - how do you think schools and family planning centres operate?

The demographic prediction quoted makes no reference to skin colour.

Islam is already considered the largest 'adhered to' faith in Europe and the UK.

And I think Moz would absolutely care if the majority of people in Europe wanted to buy halal slaughtered meat. Although most schools and hospitals in the UK already provide that and nothing else.

Moz having a relationship with a man or a woman of any faith or no faith would cause me no woes. And it clearly caused no woes to AMW as her admiration for the man is very clear.

You mentioned whites being a minority.

Trying to gauge how much provision might be needed isn't the same as obsessing over being outnumbered.

Nonsense. Catholics are.

Morrissey hates all meat slaughter - but Islam is adaptable & is considering other methods. They have laws about not causing pain & the original law was to prevent people becoming sick after eating carrion. Most UK halal meat is stunned via electricity rather than a bolt gun.

Anne Marie has never shown a blind bit of interest in Morrissey beyond using him to get attention.
 

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