Is there a 'real reason' why Morrissey and Johnny Marr never worked together again?

T

Trans

Guest
What if they did a show or tour and did no interviews at all. I remember Bernard hating the interviews after he and Brett put out the tears record. Make it about nothing other than showing up and displaying how amazing and inspiring the music is by itself. Maybe they need a common cause or enemy to unite against in order to come together again. As to how popular it would be, I’d say it would be very popular here in the us and yes young people still know who morrissey and the smiths are. When I say young I’ll say thirty and up
 
V

Vegan Cro Spirit .888.

Guest
😐
get a grip , :handpointright::guardsman::handpointleft: trolls,
Moz has 0 need of sucky :guitar:
he should go and beg 'the cribs' for his old job back:oops:
🇭🇷>:hammer:
 
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Anonymous

Guest
What if they did a show or tour and did no interviews at all. I remember Bernard hating the interviews after he and Brett put out the tears record. Make it about nothing other than showing up and displaying how amazing and inspiring the music is by itself. Maybe they need a common cause or enemy to unite against in order to come together again. As to how popular it would be, I’d say it would be very popular here in the us and yes young people still know who morrissey and the smiths are. When I say young I’ll say thirty and up

Or they could do what Abba are doing, and just talk - for getting on for the life span of their original recording career - about how they've recorded new songs, without actually ever releasing them, and about how they're going to send out creepy holographic 'avatars' of their younger selves, on tour. I wonder what they'd do with Mike Joyce's avatar?
 

MrShoes

Well-Known Member
Subscriber
Or they could do what Abba are doing, and just talk - for getting on for the life span of their original recording career - about how they've recorded new songs, without actually ever releasing them, and about how they're going to send out creepy holographic 'avatars' of their younger selves, on tour. I wonder what they'd do with Mike Joyce's avatar?
I say get Erasure to do an "Abba-esque" version of the Smiths hits. Then line up dates in Miami, WeHo, NYC/Chelsea, Soho. At least they'd get their drinks paid for!
 

SuedeMoz

Well-Known Member
While outwardly it's always seemed like a Morrissey/Marr reunion was nearly impossible, it was quite a revelation to learn that they had at least discussed it privately (well, until Johnny mentioned it in his book). The big difference is that Morrissey wasn't viewed as "toxic" and "canceled" in 2008 like he is now. So even if Morrissey was open to it now, I'm not sure Johnny would be nor would festivals be willing to pay big money for it.

There have been a lot of good guesses in this thread about why it didn't happen in 2008... but I think the "Toxic Morrissey" image is the biggest reason it wouldn't happen now. BTW, I'm not saying it's fair or I agree with any of it.
 
T

Trans

Guest
While outwardly it's always seemed like a Morrissey/Marr reunion was nearly impossible, it was quite a revelation to learn that they had at least discussed it privately (well, until Johnny mentioned it in his book). The big difference is that Morrissey wasn't viewed as "toxic" and "canceled" in 2008 like he is now. So even if Morrissey was open to it now, I'm not sure Johnny would be nor would festivals be willing to pay big money for it.

There have been a lot of good guesses in this thread about why it didn't happen in 2008... but I think the "Toxic Morrissey" image is the biggest reason it wouldn't happen now. BTW, I'm not saying it's fair or I agree with any of it.

isn’t he playing a fest and a residency soon and though. If the smiths were reunited would they be headlining cruel world
 

SuedeMoz

Well-Known Member
isn’t he playing a fest and a residency soon and though. If the smiths were reunited would they be headlining cruel world
Yes, but I was speaking about the likelihood of Johnny's willingness to be linked with Morrissey in 2021 like he apparently was in 2008.

Morrissey will tour on his own as long as he wants to and has a loyal fanbase - which I believe he does. My understanding is that Cruel World is something that Morrissey is directly involved in, almost like an organizer. I remember someone on the bill saying something to that effect.

Would large festivals like Glastonbury or Coachella - where he's not involved - invite him on the bill again? I don't know, but it seems doubtful due to his current reputation and Cancel Cultural climate.
 
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Catholic

English Blood, Irish Heart
It would be a bit self-serving for Moz though, wouldn't it? "Hey Johnny. I have no label, everyone hates me and thinks I'm a right-wing racist, nobody is buying my stuff anymore. Wanna dig out your guitar and do Glasto?".

More than a bit self-serving! And I hardly believe anything would come from it.

I simply wonder if Morrissey just might (?) have more motivation than he did in 2008 — for reasons like this and, as I say, getting back at cancel "culture".

And IF (big if!) he did have any new-found "self-serving" motivation, along with whatever money there might be in a such a reunion . . .

I don't know. Just curious if this might make any difference at all to the picture in 2008.

Curious . . . any thoughts appreciated.
 
T

Trans

Guest
Yes, but I was speaking about the likelihood of Johnny's willingness to be linked with Morrissey in 2021 like he apparently was in 2008.

Morrissey will tour on his own as long as he wants to and has a loyal fanbase - which I believe he does. My understanding is that Cruel World is something that Morrissey is directly involved in, almost like an organizer. I remember someone on the bill saying something to that effect.

Would large festivals like Glastonbury or Coachella - where he's not involved - invite him on the bill again? I don't know, but it seems doubtful due to his current reputation and Cancel Cultural climate.

I bet Coachella would
 
L

Lex____88

Guest
Realistically, for Morrissey, there is no need to reunite. Why reopen old wounds?

Personally, I think there is too much personal turmoil between them. Too many years of back and forth insults in the press, scathing comments, etc. We know Morrissey is extremely difficult and very petty. In contrast, Johnny has maintained such a Nice Guy persona over the years. To my recollection Morrissey is the only person Johnny Marr has had bad things to say about from all the different groups he has worked with. When it comes to his former partner he has let some not very nice things slip into his interviews, especially in the years after the Smiths. You can still see some of it now in more recent interviews/social media. Their relationship and the demise of the Smiths is something I think both of them will never get over. Why is that? We'll probably never get any more details. I know what my money is on...
I’m really curious what you think the reason is, please elaborate
 
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Lex____88

Guest
The Smiths are one of those bands whose legendary status was never matched by their record sales. The idea that they could do a massive reunion tour is pretty questionable. Something like the Coachella deal they were offered makes sense because it's a certain kind of audience that would like to say they saw The Smiths, and enough diehard fans would pay whatever it cost to make sure they wouldn't miss it. That's only two shows, though.
And it's been a long time now since they broke up. While all ages go to concerts, fans of The Smiths are probably older. Would younger people really care or even know the songs?
Morrissey has done what he can to destroy his own career and taken The Smiths down with him. Imagine the interviews they would have to do to promote a tour and the sorts of questions they'd be asked. I don't think they'd survive it intact. Johnny Marr would have to comment on things Morrissey has said and there is no right answer. He'd either alienate his own audience or he'd alienate Morrissey.
They could probably do a Las Vegas residency but they can't do a U2 style stadium tour. Anyway, there's probably a better chance of seeing Oasis again. Start saving up for those tickets instead.
I’m 22 and the smiths are my entire life. Their music saved my life on multiple occasions. I know quite a few others in my general age range who feel the same way about them, because the thing is, their music is timeless. It describes feelings nearly everyone has had before since the beginning of time in a way no other band has ever been able to achieve. That’s why I love them, they’re one of a kind and everything they’ve ever written has been a masterpiece both lyrically and musically. And I feel like Marr and Morrissey’s respective solo careers won’t ever fully be able to compare to the absolute magic they achieved together.
 
C

catsarecats

Guest
The reason is they are not friends and Morrissey has no interest into working with someone just for money.
The reason why Morrissey/Marr was an amazing item in the smiths was that they had so many things in common.
But Johnny broke Morrissey trust, he never had any good words for him, he knew Morrissey was deeply depressed after the Smiths split but he never tried to reach out for him, as a friend, this is a scar that cannot be healed in my opinion, and even if Morrissey gave him the benefit of the doubt in that pub in Manchester, Johnny clearly said something in those emails that made Morrissey change idea.
Also that idiotic son of Marr is not helping.
 

Ben Budd

Well-Known Member
this is an odd question - it's always transcribed it was a meeting in a 'South Manchester' pub, has it been confirmed which pub?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
The reason is they are not friends and Morrissey has no interest into working with someone just for money.
The reason why Morrissey/Marr was an amazing item in the smiths was that they had so many things in common.
But Johnny broke Morrissey trust, he never had any good words for him, he knew Morrissey was deeply depressed after the Smiths split but he never tried to reach out for him, as a friend, this is a scar that cannot be healed in my opinion, and even if Morrissey gave him the benefit of the doubt in that pub in Manchester, Johnny clearly said something in those emails that made Morrissey change idea.
Also that idiotic son of Marr is not helping.

This is a terrible take. Read both Morrissey's Autobiography and Johnny's Set the Boy Free. They both had a lot of love for each other expressed in those books. Johnny was also depressed after leaving the band he loved, he could not work under Morrissey's strict, inflexible rules for music - no synthesizers and always looking backwards instead of forwards. Also Johnny could not deal with Morrissey's capriciousness concerning business like firing managers, canceling shows/tours or not turning up for a video which was one of the last straws. As Johnny put it, Morrissey was always destined to be a solo artist.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
Realistically, for Morrissey, there is no need to reunite. Why reopen old wounds?

Personally, I think there is too much personal turmoil between them. Too many years of back and forth insults in the press, scathing comments, etc. We know Morrissey is extremely difficult and very petty. In contrast, Johnny has maintained such a Nice Guy persona over the years. To my recollection Morrissey is the only person Johnny Marr has had bad things to say about from all the different groups he has worked with. When it comes to his former partner he has let some not very nice things slip into his interviews, especially in the years after the Smiths. You can still see some of it now in more recent interviews/social media. Their relationship and the demise of the Smiths is something I think both of them will never get over. Why is that? We'll probably never get any more details. I know what my money is on...
Said it perfectly.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
this is an odd question - it's always transcribed it was a meeting in a 'South Manchester' pub, has it been confirmed which pub?
A fan on here mentioned the 'pub meet' at the time, long before it was reported and I think they said it was the Griffin in Bowdon. Johnny just said it was a nice pub "near Morrissey's Mum's", which fits the bill.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age

SuedeMoz

Well-Known Member
I actually think a reunion would be a big disappointment anyway.

As it is, The Smiths are dead, frozen in time, flawless.

"No, they can never touch you now..."

Let's keep it that way.

P.S. Whilst I don't doubt the 2008 meeting happened, given that it was in a pub in Manchester it beggars belief that no one recognised them and took sneaky photos. They haven't been pictured together since 1987 and it would have been nice to have seen a photo of them.

While I used to wish for a reunion years ago... I've come to the same conclusion. Does anyone really want to see them reunite just to be a nostalgia act? If you want to see that there's plenty of footage on YouTube. Now one thing that could make it not entirely nostalgic is new material... but that could get pretty dodgy and a good way to ruin the legacy.

Good question on why there are no photos of the 2008 meet-up. Smartphones were not as prevalent, the iPhone was only released in 2007 (I know phones before that had cameras)... but maybe it's not that no one recognized them as much as their privacy was respected as local boys in the pub?
 
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