Joseph Andrew Stack - plane crash suspect

Chico

found found found
472austinplanecrash.jpg


He did it for a reason.
I can't say for sure if violence is the answer. It definitely is not when directed at innocents trying to get through their work day. But Joseph Stack was right about the IRS and the American tax system. Something has to change. I hope his actions start a conversation which can lead to this change.

Linked at the bottom is The Smoking Gun's archive of his manifesto and explanation for why he targeted this building in Austin today, which houses IRS offices.

excerpts:
Here we have a system that is, by far, too complicated for the brightest of the master scholars to understand. Yet, it mercilessly "holds accountable" its victims, claiming that they're responsible for fully complying with laws not even the experts understand. The law "requires" a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that's not "duress" than what is.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let's try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0218102stack1.html
 
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:eek:
 
I was reading his manifesto.......I sure a lot of people feel the same way 'cuz a lot of what he says it totally true.
 
I was reading his manifesto.......I sure a lot of people feel the same way 'cuz a lot of what he says it totally true.

Well, he's dead, so no one has yet provided a rebuttal showing us which parts were false or misleading. It wasn't entirely clear what exactly he was trying to do that led to the mess, it sounded like he and some friends tried to establish themselves as a church or non-profit or something. Might have been totally bogus.

Some of his statements struck me as at least a little arrogant and paranoid, which I think helped him reach his conclusion that the government is writing legislation specifically to screw him by name.

Sure, businesses and executives get a sweet deal... but he needs to take some personal responsibility for his financial failures rather than blaming the government and big business alone. (Well, he doesn't need to do anything any more I guess.) I'm also surprised he couldn't get one of those

Besides, shouldn't his beef really have been with the federal and state congressmen who made the tax laws and spent us into the national debt, rather than the IRS who merely enforce the laws?
 
Well, he's dead, so no one has yet provided a rebuttal showing us which parts were false or misleading. It wasn't entirely clear what exactly he was trying to do that led to the mess, it sounded like he and some friends tried to establish themselves as a church or non-profit or something. Might have been totally bogus.

Some of his statements struck me as at least a little arrogant and paranoid, which I think helped him reach his conclusion that the government is writing legislation specifically to screw him by name.

Sure, businesses and executives get a sweet deal... but he needs to take some personal responsibility for his financial failures rather than blaming the government and big business alone. (Well, he doesn't need to do anything any more I guess.) I'm also surprised he couldn't get one of those

Besides, shouldn't his beef really have been with the federal and state congressmen who made the tax laws and spent us into the national debt, rather than the IRS who merely enforce the laws?

Good points JC, especially the one about taking responsibility for his own failures. I was just in line what he said about companies who commit "atrocities". There was a time where if your company failed, that meant your business plan wasn't working anymore......and if you went under, so be it. Why do we (taxpayers) gotta bail these idiots out? Also his comments about politicians not representing the people is spot on. We've beat this topic like a dead horse here in the past but 99.9% of elected officials seem to be catering to special interest parties that only help them in re-election.
 
look just pay your f***ing taxes. its not like your a big charity giver or anything. chances are you still qualify for a refund. if you have to pay something in, just think you are paying for the structure and infrastructure around you and maybe helping someone out who needs it. how f***ing bad is that. for f***s sake. i actually believe in alot of consipiracy type theories but shit we have to get our heads on straight.
 
Has anyone heard from Theo in the last 24 hours...? :confused: :confused:
:lbf:


look just pay your f***ing taxes. its not like your a big charity giver or anything. chances are you still qualify for a refund. if you have to pay something in, just think you are paying for the structure and infrastructure around you and maybe helping someone out who needs it. how f***ing bad is that. for f***s sake. i actually believe in alot of consipiracy type theories but shit we have to get our heads on straight.

Well, yeah. Taxes are not that hard. You don't have to understand them to do them. Just buy a damn program or hire an accountant and do it. If you're self employed and you weren't making quarterly estimated payments that's your own fault. Cops, roads, etc. are not free. And yes, they're not perfect, but think how much more they would cost if they were.

I just have no sympathy. I keep seeing all these commercials for lawyers who will talk the IRS out of collecting your full tax bill, and it makes me irate. Nobody should be exempt, just because they were irresponsible.

That said, I favor a flat tax. My state has a flat tax and the return is always one single page, no matter how much or little you make.
 
i personally dont think anyone should give a shit because we spend billions on a bunch of dogshit. billions. trillions. they spend it, and will, and will 'take' it fromyou. for f***s sake.
 
:lbf:




Well, yeah. Taxes are not that hard. You don't have to understand them to do them. Just buy a damn program or hire an accountant and do it. If you're self employed and you weren't making quarterly estimated payments that's your own fault. Cops, roads, etc. are not free. And yes, they're not perfect, but think how much more they would cost if they were.

I just have no sympathy. I keep seeing all these commercials for lawyers who will talk the IRS out of collecting your full tax bill, and it makes me irate. Nobody should be exempt, just because they were irresponsible.

That said, I favor a flat tax. My state has a flat tax and the return is always one single page, no matter how much or little you make.

look just pay your f***ing taxes. its not like your a big charity giver or anything. chances are you still qualify for a refund. if you have to pay something in, just think you are paying for the structure and infrastructure around you and maybe helping someone out who needs it. how f***ing bad is that. for f***s sake. i actually believe in alot of consipiracy type theories but shit we have to get our heads on straight.


Who said anything about not paying taxes? For me it's not only a civic duty but a privelege to pay the taxes that literally pave the roads I drive on. What people take issue with are the laws and methods in place to collect these taxes and the notorious and tyrannical government agency that brutally enforces the tax laws. Not to mention the horrendous causes these funds are used for (apart from paving roads).
 
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Who said anything about not paying taxes? For me it's not only a civic duty but a privelege to pay the taxes that literally pave the roads I drive on. What people take issue with are the laws and methods in place to collect these taxes and the notorious and tyrannical government agency that brutally enforces the tax laws. Not to mention the horrendous causes these funds are used for (apart from paving roads).

I've never had to be brutally coerced into paying my taxes, because I pay them when they're due. Yes, the IRS codes are byzantine. That's why I support a flat tax. And I don't like all of the things my government does with the common money, but the way to solve that isn't by refusing to pay taxes.
 
...but the way to solve that isn't by refusing to pay taxes.

Again; no one ever said anything about not paying taxes.


I've never had to be brutally coerced into paying my taxes, because I pay them when they're due.

So you're saying the only time the IRS get harsh is when people don't pay their taxes on time? Have you ever heard of being randomly selected for a tax audit? Even a fine, upstanding, punctual tax payer such as yourself is vulnerable to that.
 
Again; no one ever said anything about not paying taxes.




So you're saying the only time the IRS get harsh is when people don't pay their taxes on time? Have you ever heard of being randomly selected for a tax audit? Even a fine, upstanding, punctual tax payer such as yourself is vulnerable to that.

Yeah, and if you get audited, you just show them your W2s and mortgage statements and your receipts from donating shit to Goodwill and there you go. The only reason to worry about an audit is if you lied on your taxes, or made claims without having the paperwork to back it up.

I don't know, I've managed to file my taxes and keep copies of everything for nineteen years now and never managed to f*** it up, and I'm not the most financially savvy or detail oriented person. They give you instructions. They have a phone number you can call and they will walk you through it step by step.
 
i personally dont think anyone should give a shit because we spend billions on a bunch of dogshit. billions. trillions. they spend it, and will, and will 'take' it fromyou. for f***s sake.

That's not what happened.

It has to do with tax laws that were preventing him from being self employed.

The 1986 law made independent contractors less desirable to hire than making someone become a full time employee of the company. This law is still on the books and the person who proposed the bill tried to overturn it and failed. It has failed to get overturned 6 times since it's inception.

It's very un-American to set up tax laws that target one specific sector and prevent them from having an opportunity to be self-employed.

One of the reasons for the law was that the government felt people with his skill set were more likely to cheat on their taxes but studies show the opposite is true.

There is also some speculation that this law was passed as a favour to IBM to make it easier for them to hire off-shore people at a lower rate.

Stack was not trying to avoid taxes. He was actually trying to set himself up to pay more taxes.

I do know from personal experience that people have been able to work in the IT industry as independent contractors in the 90's and 00's with great financial success. I have never heard of this law or anyone suffering from it until he flew his plane into the building. I have a feeling that this law messed him up in the 80's and perhaps early 90's and while it became a non-issue he never came to terms with it.

The law is stupid but flying a plane into a building is not the way to get things changed. No lawmaker is going to pull this one off the books now because they don't want to be telling people that acts of violence against innocent people will help your cause.
 
What does this mean in 2010?

Heh.. these days it means what it's mean for far too long.. the government says bend over and take it and you take it and say "Thank you".

EDIT: Nice way to reach 4000 :/
 
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