junkee.com: "How Morrissey Ruined Morrissey" (April 20, 2021)

Ketamine Sun

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I wrote about this in the long post, but I don't blame you if you skipped it. You either have to believe that he says things with intention or that he says things accidentally

I believe everyone usually tries to say things with a certain aim, but sometimes things that are said are poorly chosen because one is emotional about the subject.
I can remember you making this exact point, that the issue with animal cruelty is so important (I agree) that he purposely chose language that would draw attention.
I think he might of, or I would hope he tries to. And if that were the case, it still might not have the impact he intended, at least not on everyone.
Certainly I can blame him for his own words.
I guess one can blame him for poorly chosen words or using words that are not well thought out. Or one can even blame the state of mind that belongs to an animal activist, which due to certain emotions, may not be thinking too clearly, as far as not taking into consideration of how others may hear those words, maybe.
That was why I said that something he allegedly said about Pakistani people when he was a teenager was the weakest part of that article. It doesn't sound like him to me, but the real issue is that there is no proof.
yeah, so much groping for proof, and the same few comments being used again and again and again to try and convince others. Always trying to convince others.
He's pretty well known for his choice of words and ability to convey a message, and he's been dealing with the media for a long time, so I can't see it as "sometimes things are just said." Maybe at home but not to an interviewer.

Of course, but then again it is completely possible that sometimes things are just said. No one’s perfect not even Morrissey.

edit: yeah, he’s been dealing with media (interviews) for so long that he may as well call it home.
 
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Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
I met Donald Trump for about 2 minutes once, years and years ago. He was amiable, warm, and funny. Guess he's an all-around great guy then, right Gregor? I mean, that was my experience meeting him. What else is there to know?

😐
I don’t know what else to tell you, mate. You’re convinced Moz is a bad person and, for some reason, want others to feel the same way. I met him once and he was amazing to me and that experience is high on my list of great experiences. That said, I know he’s flawed, I don’t agree with everything he says or does, and I don’t adore every album or song he’s ever made - but these things should go without saying, though. But at the end of the day, his flaws don’t diminish my experience. I know that’s not what you want to hear, but that’s how I feel.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

The Courage to Get on People's Tits
I think impulsiveness is another thing that plays into it. Purely based on what he's said himself and incidents he described in Autobiography I would say that he tends to make impulsive decisions, especially in emotionally charged situations.

I think that interviews are often very stressful moments for him, perhaps even more so later in his career, because he always assumes that he will not be treated fairly anyway. And it seems to be very important for him to get certain points across unambiguously, so he chooses strong, perhaps exaggerated language and overshoots the mark. Positive reinforcement by the interviewer (as could be heard in part in the Spiegel interview) has a reassuring effect because it implies that his strategy is working.
What was said may seem like a good idea in the situation itself but may no longer seem appropriate to him afterwards and it's possible that he even realises that it wasn't suitable for expressing his point of view precisely. I don't think he thinks about the phrases beforehand, even though I agree that expressions like 'subspecies' are chosen for their explosive potential.
His dry humour and unconventional use of exaggeration and irony adds to this.

This might seem like a variation of the "the topic is too emotional for him" argument but it's slightly different because I think it happens with other topics as well, it just isn't as outrageous and doesn't get quoted as often. But I've often found myself shaking my head about very trivial things he's said in interviews, that would never get reported and regurgitated but seem to fit the same pattern. I think it's more to do with the interview situation itself than with the topic.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

The Courage to Get on People's Tits
I don’t know what else to tell you, mate. You’re convinced Moz is a bad person and, for some reason, want others to feel the same way. I met him once and he was amazing to me and that experience is high on my list of great experiences. That said, I know he’s flawed, I don’t agree with everything he says or does, and I don’t adore every album or song he’s ever made - but these things should go without saying, though. But at the end of the day, his flaws don’t diminish my experience. I know that’s not what you want to hear, but that’s how I feel.

Are you saying that you don't tell yourself you know every aspect of his personality just because you spoke to him for a few minutes eight years ago? o_O

No postcard. Eight years. Not a single one, GS.
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
Are you saying that you don't tell yourself you know every aspect of his personality just because you spoke to him for a few minutes eight years ago? o_O

No postcard. Eight years. Not a single one, GS.
I know! Crazy, right?

I look at it this way: each new day is new shot at getting a postcard. Any day now!
 
With the music they've written for Morrissey, who's going to want to hire them? Their plodding brand of stodge-rock ain't exactly selling records these days. Morrissey is their meal ticket and they know it.
Ya brain ain't holdin' cells.

Haha!
Ya tried to flip it and missed.
This ain't got nothin' to do with the music.
 
V

Vegan Cro Spirit .777

Guest
I wrote about this in the long post, but I don't blame you if you skipped it. You either have to believe that he says things with intention or that he says things accidentally and is somehow a victim of his own carelessness with language. I believe it is the former. I can remember you making this exact point, that the issue with animal cruelty is so important (I agree) that he purposely chose language that would draw attention.
Certainly I can blame him for his own words.
That was why I said that something he allegedly said about Pakistani people when he was a teenager was the weakest part of that article. It doesn't sound like him to me, but the real issue is that there is no proof.
When it is his own words (which he sometimes denies saying, as in the Der Spiegel matter) of course he can be blamed for the reaction UNLESS he's just a person who randomly says things and doesn't have a very good grasp on language or how the media can sensationalize things. That's the "poor helpless Morrissey" model and it's your decision if that works for you but it doesn't for me.
He's pretty well known for his choice of words and ability to convey a message, and he's been dealing with the media for a long time, so I can't see it as "sometimes things are just said." Maybe at home but not to an interviewer.
:rolleyes:
FC taking 1 nonsensical sentence and multiplying into 200 nonsensical sentences :hammer:
 
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