Marr...Overlooked?

Example, see what Alain Whyte has written on his own with Red Lightning as compare to what he has done with Morrissey.

Alan is talentless, the difference is that Moz has been able to hire really talented producers to bring out the sound of the albums.

Think of it like this, in the film world, a good director can make a shitty script a blockbuster and a bad director can make a great script stink up the place.

The producer is often 80% of the sound.

Kumo
 
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Marr is overrated. Was he good with the Smiths? Somewhat. He didn't really write anything too spectacular until Meat Is Murder came out. .
wow, I couldn't agree less but that's your opinion, you're fully entitled to it!
I can't explain Marr's lack of success post-smiths but I think it may be harder to find the right "channels" of output for a guitarist than for a singer & lyricist. and he doesn't seem to have the ambition of fame & success that Moz has. he was so young in the smiths, must have been pretty tough, perhaps his ambition has been to have fun and experiment, not show off his potential "genius".
 
No-one with any grasp on popular music history is going to contend that Johnny is the greatest guitarist of all time, or that Morrissey is the greatest lyricist or vocalist of all time......or that The Smiths were the greatest band of all time, because these opinions don't stack up I'm afraid.

The weight of critical acclaim and popular opinion occasionally has them "up there" but that's about as far as it goes....

The Smiths are MY FAVOURITE band of all time, though and that's a fact!
 
No-one with any grasp on popular music history is going to contend that Johnny is the greatest guitarist of all time, or that Morrissey is the greatest lyricist or vocalist of all time......or that The Smiths were the greatest band of all time, because these opinions don't stack up I'm afraid.

The weight of critical acclaim and popular opinion occasionally has them "up there" but that's about as far as it goes....

The Smiths are MY FAVOURITE band of all time, though and that's a fact!

A 100 years from now, it will most likely be Prince that goes down as the greatest guitarist of all time. Johnny will be in the top 5.

As far as the greatest lyricist, I can't think of anyone that come close to Moz? Lou Reed would be my personal #2.

Kumo
 
I don’t think Marr is over-looked at all now really, he’s often cited as being one of the best guitarists around now in critics polls/ magazines and he is often listed as being an inspiration by younger groups just starting out, so he’s definitely not melting into the background.

I never understand this whole thing of wanting to put people in a chart position of their quantity of genius/ talent, it just doesn’t work like that and everyone has a different opinion. Don’t see why they just can’t be appreciated for their individual contributions, and after all, an argument over who is ‘best’- Moz or Marr is so entirely pointless… particularly on a Morrissey solo board…:rolleyes:
 
A 100 years from now, it will most likely be Prince that goes down as the greatest guitarist of all time. Johnny will be in the top 5.

Prince?? are you being serious?? I admit, I can't get enough of Raspberry Beret, but, cmon now.

you sure you didnt get him confused with that OTHER black guy with a guitar... ?? :confused:
 
Remove Morrissey's voice from the Smiths songs and you are left with melodies, grooves, soundscapes; very enjoyable indie-punk-pop-rock. Do the same with his post-Steven Street songs and it's more likely you'll spot some generic backing tracks.
Johnny Marr = George Best
Boorer/Whyte = David Beckham
 
Alain is talentless

You know that's not true....


"Glamorous Glue"
"Certain People I Know"
"We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful"
"Tomorrow"
"Hold on to Your Friends"
"Do Your Best and Don't Worry"
"Alma Matters"
"Irish Blood, English Heart"
"First of the Gang to Die"
"Sunny"

....unless you think these songs are rubbish?
 
You know that's not true....


"Glamorous Glue"
"Certain People I Know"
"We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful"
"Tomorrow"
"Hold on to Your Friends"
"Do Your Best and Don't Worry"
"Alma Matters"
"Irish Blood, English Heart"
"First of the Gang to Die"
"Sunny"

....unless you think these songs are rubbish?

Mostly yes... my grades below...

C- "Glamorous Glue"
D "Certain People I Know"
D "We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful"
B "Tomorrow"
C+ "Hold on to Your Friends"
F "Do Your Best and Don't Worry"
B "Alma Matters"
A- "Irish Blood, English Heart"
F "First of the Gang to Die" This has got to be the worst song ever! yuk!
A+ "Sunny"

Kumo
 
Mostly yes... my grades below...

C- "Glamorous Glue"
D "Certain People I Know"
D "We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful"
B "Tomorrow"
C+ "Hold on to Your Friends"
F "Do Your Best and Don't Worry"
B "Alma Matters"
A- "Irish Blood, English Heart"
F "First of the Gang to Die" This has got to be the worst song ever! yuk!
A+ "Sunny"

Kumo


So what about Boz, do you rate him at all?

Also if you don;t like the music don;t listen to it, just read the lyrics instead. Pretend they are poems or something
 
So what about Boz, do you rate him at all?

Also if you don;t like the music don;t listen to it, just read the lyrics instead. Pretend they are poems or something

Every Album has some high points and also some really good B-sides out there.
Viva Hate and some of the singles that followed were his best Solo work

Speedway is amazing, so is The Edges are no longer Parallel, I have forgiven you Jesus stands up against anything you want to put it next too.

I give more credit to his producers for coming up with a good sound that his lame band...


As for Boz, he is a bloated rockabilly loser, bores me to tears.
 
Every Album has some high points and also some really good B-sides out there.
Viva Hate and some of the singles that followed were his best Solo work

Speedway is amazing, so is The Edges are no longer Parallel, I have forgiven you Jesus stands up against anything you want to put it next too.

I give more credit to his producers for coming up with a good sound that his lame band...


As for Boz, he is a bloated rockabilly loser, bores me to tears.

:D Boz is a bloated rockabilly loser? And what do you do friend? Boz appears to be a rock star who works with many big acts.
 
Remove Morrissey's voice from the Smiths songs and you are left with melodies, grooves, soundscapes; very enjoyable indie-punk-pop-rock. Do the same with his post-Steven Street songs and it's more likely you'll spot some generic backing tracks.
Johnny Marr = George Best
Boorer/Whyte = David Beckham

The Teachers Are Afraid Of The Pupils.
What do you tell me about it? (Kumo also)
The music is 10, in my opinion, of course.
 
Every Album has some high points and also some really good B-sides out there.
Viva Hate and some of the singles that followed were his best Solo work

Speedway is amazing, so is The Edges are no longer Parallel, I have forgiven you Jesus stands up against anything you want to put it next too.

I give more credit to his producers for coming up with a good sound that his lame band...


As for Boz, he is a bloated rockabilly loser, bores me to tears.
You are brilliant

P.s. I have forgiven Jesus
 
Every Smiths songs 'bar several covers,' is a Morrissey/Marr composition. Many people often forget that Marr played such a big role and that was my point. Did Marr need Morrissey more than Morrissey needed Marr? Absolutely. But, Morrissey also needed Marr. Example, in my humble opinion, if you listed the 25 best songs that Morrissey has ever lent his voice to, ATLEAST 20 of those 'and I think 22 or 23' would be from the Smiths catalogue, which were all co-written with Marr. Is Marr one of the most technically proficent guitarists out there? No. But I am glad. I'd take Marr and his arranging/producing/writing skills over Steve Vai or Yngwie 7 days out of the week. Like The Edge or Tom Petty, Marr never needed to be flashy or solo like Eddie Van Halen. But as Noel Gallagher says on Youtube, "Marr can't even play what Marr played." And yes, I know that on the studio albums the guitars are layered upon eachother and that is why it sounds so good, but my original point was that Marr and Morrissey were equal WITHIN the group, and while there is no argument who has been more successfull since the break-up, let's not forget that Morrissey made his best stuff with the aid of Marr and that is not a point that can be argued.
 
Every Smiths songs 'bar several covers,' is a Morrissey/Marr composition. Many people often forget that Marr played such a big role and that was my point. Did Marr need Morrissey more than Morrissey needed Marr? Absolutely. But, Morrissey also needed Marr. Example, in my humble opinion, if you listed the 25 best songs that Morrissey has ever lent his voice to, ATLEAST 20 of those 'and I think 22 or 23' would be from the Smiths catalogue, which were all co-written with Marr. Is Marr one of the most technically proficent guitarists out there? No. But I am glad. I'd take Marr and his arranging/producing/writing skills over Steve Vai or Yngwie 7 days out of the week. Like The Edge or Tom Petty, Marr never needed to be flashy or solo like Eddie Van Halen. But as Noel Gallagher says on Youtube, "Marr can't even play what Marr played." And yes, I know that on the studio albums the guitars are layered upon eachother and that is why it sounds so good, but my original point was that Marr and Morrissey were equal WITHIN the group, and while there is no argument who has been more successfull since the break-up, let's not forget that Morrissey made his best stuff with the aid of Marr and that is not a point that can be argued.

It can easily be argued if you don't agree. And I don't agree.
 
In your opinion, if you were to list the 25 best songs that Morrissey has lent his voice to, how many and for that matter, which ones, would be Morrissey solo songs. I am admittingly a much, much, bigger Smiths fan than Morrissey solo, although I do LIKE his solo stuff 'love only some of it,' I just don't love it the way I love the Smiths. So I'm not trying to piss you off "Danny" I just am curious.
 
In your opinion, if you were to list the 25 best songs that Morrissey has lent his voice to, how many and for that matter, which ones, would be Morrissey solo songs. I am admittingly a much, much, bigger Smiths fan than Morrissey solo, although I do LIKE his solo stuff 'love only some of it,' I just don't love it the way I love the Smiths. So I'm not trying to piss you off "Danny" I just am curious.
You are bound to piss off people if you state your own opinion as fact. The way you just expressed yourself is fine. I can totally accept your opinion.

I can't be bothered to sit down and really think about it, but I think if I were to make a list of my favourite Morrissey/Smiths songs it would probably end up at about half and half with perhaps just a couple more Moz songs. My personal opinion is that though there has been more dross in the solo years, the heights have been just as high and in certain cases he has surpassed The Smiths.
 
The music to Morrissey's solo career is alot more accessable (hense higher charting singles) which is why i find myself listening to the solo stuff more than The Smiths. Also because Marr's compositions were all so bleak that I have to really be in the frame of mind for it. Don't get me wrong the smiths are my favourite band of all time. I just think i listen to Morrissey more.
 
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