Morrissey's relationship with keyboards and synthesisers - what changed

[Dazza]

Evening - glad to have started a couple of good threads on here.

I remember a quote from an old guitar tutor of mine who insisted that Morrissey HATED synths in the early days of the Smiths. Apparently he had said "when a synth appears on a Smiths record I won't be" or something like that.

If you listen to early Smiths work there's room for the organ stuff from Carrack and a few splashes of piano here and there, so it holds true to Morrissey's general distrust of distinctly artificial sound.

I'm just trying to understand what changed because, although his live band tended to be guitar-centric until the 21st century, the recorded stuff took a distinct twist on Queen is Dead, into Strangeways and by the time of his solo career, there seems to have been a 180 on the theme.

There are keys all over Kill Uncle and a lot of artifical sound, it seems to re-appear a bit on Southpaw (Arsenal and Vauxhall are certainly guitar-centric records) and Maladjusted sees it more prominent.

My understanding is that Morrissey wasn't keen on getting orchestras in etc, partly due to the expense and also not disrupting the 'tight' nature of the group he has put together.

Then you listen to stuff on 'Dog with a chain' and he's turned his band into a cross between Yello and a 1980s New Order. Very odd.

I'm a big fan of some of the better electronic bands (like NO and early Talk Talk) but get his point about the Casio synth thing. Was it better sampling and technology that helped along the way? Morrissey seemed to hold the 'club scene' in a certain amount of disdain so was that the issue?

Johnny full-on embraced Electonic music (literally) the first chance he got. I'm just curious as to what his original disdain was for that kind of sound and why he appeared to change his mind over time.

I think with the right production Moz could make a very good electronic-based record. Just my own personal.

Thanks in advance - as always.

 

[Harsh Truth]

I remember seeing Morrissey in early 2004 - the preview shows to Quarry - and being SHOCKED at the site of a keyboardist on stage. Overall, since that time, I think the addition of keyboards to the live sound has been fine and usually not overdone, but I also don't think I would miss them if they were gone.

 

[gashonthenail]

There is quite a bit of talk about this issue in The South Bank Show documentary. The Smiths stood out against the synth pop bands that were all the rage at the time, so they had to slag them off. In many ways, of course, the synth, electronic sound came to dominate everything, and still does - but The Smiths, by standing out from the crowd, now sound absolutely timeless, whereas all their contemporaries sound really '80s' and dated in comparison. As time has gone on though, Moz has clearly mellowed towards the use of electronic effects in the production. This really takes us to the topic of the quality of his album producers over the years, which is a different, if related, topic.

 

[Musician]

There is quite a bit of talk about this issue in The South Bank Show documentary. The Smiths stood out against the synth pop bands that were all the rage at the time, so they had to slag them off. In many ways, of course, the synth, electronic sound came to dominate everything, and still does - but The Smiths, by standing out from the crowd, now sound absolutely timeless, whereas all their contemporaries sound really '80s' and dated in comparison. As time has gone on though, Moz has clearly mellowed towards the use of electronic effects in the production. This really takes us to the topic of the quality of his album producers over the years, which is a different, if related, topic.

Well, strictly from a musical point of view, The Smiths sounds VERY dated too. Terrible 80s production. There was even an interview with Johnny Marr a few years ago when he was asked something along the lines “doesn’t it frustrate you how guitars sound on the Smiths records?”

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Evening - glad to have started a couple of good threads on here.

I remember a quote from an old guitar tutor of mine who insisted that Morrissey HATED synths in the early days of the Smiths. Apparently he had said "when a synth appears on a Smiths record I won't be" or something like that.

If you listen to early Smiths work there's room for the organ stuff from Carrack and a few splashes of piano here and there, so it holds true to Morrissey's general distrust of distinctly artificial sound.

I'm just trying to understand what changed because, although his live band tended to be guitar-centric until the 21st century, the recorded stuff took a distinct twist on Queen is Dead, into Strangeways and by the time of his solo career, there seems to have been a 180 on the theme.

There are keys all over Kill Uncle and a lot of artifical sound, it seems to re-appear a bit on Southpaw (Arsenal and Vauxhall are certainly guitar-centric records) and Maladjusted sees it more prominent.

My understanding is that Morrissey wasn't keen on getting orchestras in etc, partly due to the expense and also not disrupting the 'tight' nature of the group he has put together.

Then you listen to stuff on 'Dog with a chain' and he's turned his band into a cross between Yello and a 1980s New Order. Very odd.

I'm a big fan of some of the better electronic bands (like NO and early Talk Talk) but get his point about the Casio synth thing. Was it better sampling and technology that helped along the way? Morrissey seemed to hold the 'club scene' in a certain amount of disdain so was that the issue?

Johnny full-on embraced Electonic music (literally) the first chance he got. I'm just curious as to what his original disdain was for that kind of sound and why he appeared to change his mind over time.

I think with the right production Moz could make a very good electronic-based record. Just my own personal.

Thanks in advance - as always.

Morrissey said that at a time when The Smiths were taking a stand against pop music which was heavily programmed, synth based. ( edit: as Gash noted above).

As we know, synth was used on QueenID. And though not synth, the use of digital reverb, delays and most likely pitch shifter ( Eventide/AMS) or electronic effects were used on guitar and production.


Morrissey pre-Smiths liked Klaus Nomi, Tomita, and others that used electronics ( to a lesser extent) on their albums.

His love of weird was always there, just took time to bleep, bloop, bloom.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, strictly from a musical point of view, The Smiths sounds VERY dated too. Terrible 80s production. There was even an interview with Johnny Marr a few years ago when he was asked something along the lines “doesn’t it frustrate you how guitars sound on the Smiths records?”

Agree, I think 'Rank' is far and away their best album. It's the album I go back and listen to regularly. As much as I love their songs, a lot of their studio stuff doesn't do the songs justice, and Morrissey's Smiths-era 'first-take vocal' philosophy did them no favours either. He himself has said that when he listens to some of those Smiths records, it sounds to him like he's standing on a window ledge (I think I get what he means!). He developed his craft, lyrically and vocally, as the years went by, and I think he mellowed in terms of certain dogmas he felt the need to adhere to in the early days - first-take vocals, no synths, and as few trips out of Blighty as possible!

 

[Anonymous]

I remember seeing Morrissey in early 2004 - the preview shows to Quarry - and being SHOCKED at the site of a keyboardist on stage. Overall, since that time, I think the addition of keyboards to the live sound has been fine and usually not overdone, but I also don't think I would miss them if they were gone.

I agree with this. They seem to have become an immovable feature now, but I wouldn't mind a tour or two with just guitars and no keys.