Nick Cave on Morrissey - new issue of the Red Hand Files

Nick Cave on Morrissey - The Red Hand Files - Issue #48

Excerpt:

Open debate and conversation are the very structure of civilisation, and in Nottingham it was a privilege to be challenged by this very thoughtful young man. However, even though I was unsatisfied by my own response, I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them – even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself – that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed.

...Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals – messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
That’s all fine, but let’s be honest here; Nick is a far better lyricist and songwriter. The majority of his work has been much better than any of Morrissey’s work over the last 20 to 25 years. I’m not saying that Morrissey hasn’t written any incredible songs during that period, but overall, there is no comparison.


In your dreams loser
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I think it's quite appropriate for Morrissey to be the way he is. There seems to be a demonisation of people who don't throw their arms around everybody. You can't make people be friends with everyone they see. He's an insular person. We're not all networking and mingling. Leave that to the globalists and people who are secure in what they do. I'm not. I'm insecure, I'm wary of people. I'm quiet and shy. I don't want to mix and it's my privilege not to do so. Shyness seems to be being conflated with racism.

What’s shyness got to do with telling people how to vote and making political broadcasts on his own website? Funny sense of shyness
 

Bluebirds

Well-Known Member
Stormzy owning Glastonbury at the moment. Excellent headlining show.

The sound of modern Britain
 

The Truth

about Ruth
I've never advocated violence against anyone. All I'm saying is that I have mental issues and I suffer from claustrophobia. It stands to reason that I don't want the place I live in to become even more crowded. There are 25million people living in the vast place that is called Australia. There are 66million of us living on this small island.
Who said violence though? Is that what you mean by "causing a hooha?"
I am sorry you suffer. I can understand how your personal issues and your viewpoint may exacerbate each other but I don't think it gives you a pass. I hope you are working on it. Good luck.
 

nozmuppet

Member
Why would anyone listen, to flaky pop stars when they get into social politics. The man in question being articulate in written form and song.
But it has been a good few years and he still pussy foots, on what his views are on coloured immigration.
Whether he equates Halal (Kocha) with animal cruelty and terrorism.
Stopping Muslims coming to the UK, would terrorism cease.
British culture declining in some parts of the country, be it white flight, consumerism, lack of religious faith, family breakdown, multiculturalism, social mobility.
We all have our personal views about this, except an older Morrissey expresses his thoughts clumsily in the media.
Free speach works both way, you just can't shut each other down.
When music journalists review California Son, base it on the quality of the music, nothing else.
When the Guardian, Independent, NME vilify Moz its clear their is an agenda, addressing Morrissey's views on the whole is lacking because the journalism is weak.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
In your dreams loser

No, not my dreams. Fact. Read the lyrics to anything on Skeleton Tree, Push the Sky Away, etc., etc., and then read the lyrics to anything on LIHS, WPINOYB, etc., and the tell me who's dreaming; I could go on. Cave's only really had one stinker in the last 20 years, and that's Nocturama. You might not like the Bad Seeds music, but to try and say Morrissey has been writing better songs the last few decades just means you don't have taste.
 

ThePoliticalRevolution

Well-Known Member
New sense of relief Political. I'm a free man again. Got through my period of bad attendance at work and now looking forward to a week off. Of course, my bad attendance was down to mental health issues. I never said that though. It was always a cold or a virus or domestic emergencies. Never would I admit to them that I was mentally ill!

Ok. You just lemme know what you need honey cus I'm a political revolutionary by day and Morrissey (Solo!) resident social worker by moonlight. I have solutions.
 

ThePoliticalRevolution

Well-Known Member
I feel a bit like Stannis Baratheon from Game Of Thrones. I'm able to see the absurdity of life but when it comes to sharing it with anyone else, I'm left bereft. I've slowly lost all sense of mirth and I didn't see it coming. I do like your style though. Youre direct approach to people is refreshing.


I'm very stylish. You'll be fine. Plenty of rest. Some sun. Call me whenever.
 

reelfountain

On Timeout
Sounded okay until the last sentence when he mentioned "people falling prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems".

Because no way is Morrissey into Islam.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
No, not my dreams. Fact. Read the lyrics to anything on Skeleton Tree, Push the Sky Away, etc., etc., and then read the lyrics to anything on LIHS, WPINOYB, etc., and the tell me who's dreaming; I could go on. Cave's only really had one stinker in the last 20 years, and that's Nocturama. You might not like the Bad Seeds music, but to try and say Morrissey has been writing better songs the last few decades just means you don't have taste.

I just read all his lyrics. Nope, sorry loser you're completely wrong & you're not the Ringleader of the Tastetesters either. FACT.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
That’s all fine, but let’s be honest here; Nick is a far better lyricist and songwriter. The majority of his work has been much better than any of Morrissey’s work over the last 20 to 25 years. I’m not saying that Morrissey hasn’t written any incredible songs during that period, but overall, there is no comparison.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
 

Oh my

Enough! or Too much
It is interesting to click the link and read the whole article... If you only read the quote posted here, it really sounds as if Nick Cave really hates Morrissey.
If you read the whole article, it is very much the opposite, he seems to admire him.
 

Harsh Truth

Ever Felt Had?
And when he states he wants to be allowed freedom of speech, it’s to be allowed freedom of speech without the harassment of the Guardian, as far as can be seen.

But of course those that are anti-Morrissey will refuse to see what’s going on.

That’s not how freedom of speech works! Yes, you can say whatever you like. But if a person or entity has an issue with it, they are entitled to respond to it.

Problem is, this is where Morrissey usually breaks down. As opposed to coming back with an intelligent response to legitimately debate the issue or to defend his position, he turns into a 14 year old and cries “everyone is against me!” as he slams his bedroom door.
 

FantiQ

Active Member
I get bored by nick cave and his naive posturing romanticism. Locking oneself in a room and pretending it’s 1956 still with William Burroughs and Charles Bukowski. Tom Waits does this too. Have the courage to live in the present and have something to say about it.
 

Pokey

Member
I think you miss what he actually says. He doesn’t say people should go and have a relationship with the music. He says people can have not should have. He also says he respects people who speak out against those views. Personally what Morrissey says in his own words don’t need amplifying. They stand out on their own. Maybe you don’t see them being that wrong because you agree everybody prefers their own race? Or you don’t see anything wrong with asking people to vote for a party that consists of racists and have speakers at their last conference including an outspoken swedish holocaust denier? People have the choice to listen to what they want. Nobody is silencing anybody. People can speak out on all sides to challenge either sides views or oppressive views as Nick says.

No I don’t think i missed the point. My point is there are people here who don’t even like the music. They’re just here purely to shit on Morrissey and his views over and over and that’s it. And the music doesn’t even matter. Nick very much says the music should matter. If you don’t like the music and you don’t like the man then what’s the point?

There is some research that suggests people are slightly biased towards their own race on an instinctual level. Not sure that goes as far as “prefer”. But it’s not entirely inaccurate. I said I don’t really agree with most of what he said but it honestly isn’t that bad. People are taking what he says and blow it up. Is he saying he thinks the concentration camps on America’s southern border are a good thing? People just will not let this point go. He could probably be considered left wing on most other things - women’s rights, LGBTQI support, animal rights etc. He differs a bit on his stance of border protection and people lose their shit and he’s literally called Hitleresque things here at times. If people can’t tolerate anyone whose views differ from their own in any way then god help you living and adjusting to the outside world where you have no control over that stuff.
 

countthree

Well-Known Member
Very well put by Nick Cave, I think he really nails it. I disagree with a lot of Morrissey's views, even though I don't think what he actually says is as bad as people make out. Morrissey says X, then people take X and amplify it 10 fold and start talking about Nazis and bullshit like that. But in the end I still love the music, so I just push passed a lot of what he says because it ultimately just doesn't matter. Its just an old man's views. If you can't overlook it and do as Cave suggests and have a relationship with the music, or, you don't like the music as well as the things he says ... then ... just leave? Go focus on things you do like which enrich your life more.


Sure, in the same way you don't have to agree on everything with the person you love. Eventually, if the disagreement is too unbeareable you walk away. But respecting the other person's point of view is the minimum respect all human beings deserve as thinking beings. Respect also involves not insulting nor belittling that person for his/her opinions.
 

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