Questions about the nature and history of this forum

Catholic

English Blood, Irish Heart
As someone very new here (and who also feels most anomalous) I find myself wondering wanting to know more about the nature and history of this forum.

Questions I have:

What does this forum really mean to people here?

What was it like in the past, say 10-20 years ago, compared to today?

What does this obviously enormous effort spanning many years of activity mean to Morrissey himself?

How much have those close to Morrissey been involved here and what does it mean to them?

Any thoughts, particularly from those here with a genuine love of the man and his music, will be most appreciated. I confess to being somewhat less interested in those who just want to bash the man. (Although there are thoughtful critics here like Amy whom I listen to with interest.)
 

Light Housework

drawing/coloring
As someone very new here (and who also feels most anomalous) I find myself wondering wanting to know more about the nature and history of this forum.

Questions I have:

What does this forum really mean to people here?

What was it like in the past, say 10-20 years ago, compared to today?

What does this obviously enormous effort spanning many years of activity mean to Morrissey himself?

How much have those close to Morrissey been involved here and what does it mean to them?

Any thoughts, particularly from those here with a genuine love of the man and his music, will be most appreciated. I confess to being somewhat less interested in those who just want to bash the man. (Although there are thoughtful critics here like Amy whom I listen to with interest.)
There used to be a chatroom here, over a decade ago. I now prefer these message boards. I admire David Tseng's tenacity to keep this site alive despite Morrissey's disapproval.
 

Light Housework

drawing/coloring
The chatroom was too fast and untraceable. You'd be left with your head spinning and no easy way to search back through the conversations to gain insight into why your head's spinning.
 

Catholic

English Blood, Irish Heart
There used to be a chatroom here, over a decade ago. I now prefer these message boards. I admire David Tseng's tenacity to keep this site alive despite Morrissey's disapproval.
Thank you, LH. Interesting. So it has been a struggle to keep this site alive . . . ?!
 

smiler

Junior Member
As someone very new here (and who also feels most anomalous) I find myself wondering wanting to know more about the nature and history of this forum.

Questions I have:

What does this forum really mean to people here?

What was it like in the past, say 10-20 years ago, compared to today?

What does this obviously enormous effort spanning many years of activity mean to Morrissey himself?

How much have those close to Morrissey been involved here and what does it mean to them?

Any thoughts, particularly from those here with a genuine love of the man and his music, will be most appreciated. I confess to being somewhat less interested in those who just want to bash the man. (Although there are thoughtful critics here like Amy whom I listen to with interest.)
This website once had an excellent chat function
funny, lively, intellectual, witty - a great place (around 2004). Rumour had it that Moz used to chat too. He was quite complimentary about the website at the time. The owners policy was to have very limited moderation. The policy failed. The trolls took over. Ex-Smith fans love to feel spurned. The chat was closed.
Around the same time the owner and Moz's people had conversations about the site becoming "official". The owner demanded payments and Moz rapidly backed away. Then the site began "promoting" unfounded allegations about Moz and things really got very ugly. Sticks and stones were thrown, hearts were broken. I love you more than you love me, I need you more than you need me. The owner earned a life time ban to Morrissey concerts. Since then the site has been a bit of a ghost ship, the trolls have the rudder and other social media has taken over the conversation.
 

Verso

Well-Known Member
It's also important to understand that, until very recently, I don't think Morrissey understood very much about the internet. I seem to recall that his issues with this site --beyond David posting "unverified" news stories-- was that anyone could post anything their heart desired on the messageboard and in the chat room. It was a fundamental misunderstanding of the way internet forums operated. I think he misconstrued individual posts as being official news items. Either way, a funny thing to be up in arms about for someone so concerned with "free speech."

Many years later, he finally got what he wanted with the advent of Morrissey Central: a one-way conversation serving as a repository for the benign and banal in the land of Moz.
 

Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
Thank you, LH. Interesting. So it has been a struggle to keep this site alive . . . ?!
Not at all. The page views have remained about the same prior to the 'so low' / 'crèche' period, during it and thereafter.
The site ebbs & flows exactly as the news does with Morrissey.
Quite periods reflect less activity around Morrissey - unless there's some historical Smiths-related news or a past band mate saying something etc.
Similarly, when busy, the gig reports, music news, downloads and frontpage stories get decent engagement figures.
Hardly evidence of any 'struggle' really is it?
Other than PJLM (which is visited for other reasons), this remains the largest repository of Morrissey news & information (approaching 2.1 million articles/comments) - with a view to preserving it all for posterity and keep rarities available for people.
Won't be commenting on the feedback aspects the OP will undoubtedly bring up as there's a thread for that.
One observation I would make though: much like the people that make suppositions about [X topic about Morrissey] and make it a rule [it must be this way as I think/am certain it is] often appear to extend that thinking to this site's history and 'personalities', when actually, in reality, they are doing nothing but guessing. Subsequently, it tends to descend in to romanticised views / mythos and nothing particularly factual.
Regards,
FWD.
 

Light Housework

drawing/coloring
This website once had an excellent chat function
funny, lively, intellectual, witty - a great place (around 2004). Rumour had it that Moz used to chat too. He was quite complimentary about the website at the time. The owners policy was to have very limited moderation. The policy failed. The trolls took over. Ex-Smith fans love to feel spurned. The chat was closed.
Around the same time the owner and Moz's people had conversations about the site becoming "official". The owner demanded payments and Moz rapidly backed away. Then the site began "promoting" unfounded allegations about Moz and things really got very ugly. Sticks and stones were thrown, hearts were broken. I love you more than you love me, I need you more than you need me. The owner earned a life time ban to Morrissey concerts. Since then the site has been a bit of a ghost ship, the trolls have the rudder and other social media has taken over the conversation.
My thread is pro Morrissey, but is open to all conversation, so far. It's also functioning as an interactive diary (for me at least), and I find it therapeutic.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
It's also important to understand that, until very recently, I don't think Morrissey understood very much about the internet. I seem to recall that his issues with this site --beyond David posting "unverified" news stories-- was that anyone could post anything their heart desired on the messageboard and in the chat room. It was a fundamental misunderstanding of the way internet forums operated. I think he misconstrued individual posts as being official news items. Either way, a funny thing to be up in arms about for someone so concerned with "free speech."

Many years later, he finally got what he wanted with the advent of Morrissey Central: a one-way conversation serving as a repository for the benign and banal in the land of Moz.

He still doesn't understand the internet - I'm not sure anyone in his life does.
 

smiler

Junior Member
Regardless of whether the internet is "understood", its quite possible to have a well moderated chat platform. Its equally possible to have a well moderated forum. A decision was made to allow the trolls to take over.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
As someone very new here (and who also feels most anomalous) I find myself wondering wanting to know more about the nature and history of this forum.

Questions I have:

What does this forum really mean to people here?

What was it like in the past, say 10-20 years ago, compared to today?

What does this obviously enormous effort spanning many years of activity mean to Morrissey himself?

How much have those close to Morrissey been involved here and what does it mean to them?

Any thoughts, particularly from those here with a genuine love of the man and his music, will be most appreciated. I confess to being somewhat less interested in those who just want to bash the man. (Although there are thoughtful critics here like Amy whom I listen to with interest.)

For me, there are two distinct Solo periods; 2004-2011, and then the last 10 years. I started lurking in the "comeback" period when Moz seemed very high-profile. He appeared on Jonathan Ross, he'd had sold-out live shows, there was so much activity here - trolls got lost in the buzz . That carried on through Ringleader, the Greatest British Icon thing, even Refusal. It was just a great time to be a fan.

2010 and onwards was when things started sliding, for me. A number of disasters seemed to coincide in 2011 - no record deal, a very poor batch of new songs, tone-deaf Norway comments, banning David T from concerts, the "F- Morrissey-Solo" T-Shirts...it felt like Morrissey was 'going to war' with his fans and that really changed my perception of the mood on here. The atmosphere became more critical, fans seemed to split into 2 camps & a lot of old users defected to a more "positive, pro-Moz" site.

I don't think that 'slide' ever stopped, sadly. For me, the more bleak things become (shows cancelled, albums poorly received, more time without a record deal, more ill-advised comments, 'scandals' etc, etc) - the more we seem to trawl through the discography, the A-Z of songs, the Top 100, Smiths questions, Sam's crap Photoshops. This is "legacy artist" stuff or the kind of content you'd expect when an artist has retired, not stuff we'd be doing if he was at the top of his game.

As for what the site means? To be a diehard through endless Wilderness periods and then watch that person become a genuine hate figure, "cancelled" as a fascist and a racist, isolated, posting unhinged rants from the Sunset Marquis... it's f***ing heartbreaking. This forum isn't a 'fandom' now, it feels more like a therapy group. A bunch of people trying to process the miles of shit we're being dragged in, saying, "Oh, but this B-side from 1997 is gold!"
 
Last edited:

Light Housework

drawing/coloring
Regardless of whether the internet is "understood", its quite possible to have a well moderated chat platform. Its equally possible to have a well moderated forum. A decision was made to allow the trolls to take over.
Look at my thread, and tell me trolls have taken over. Everyone who posts on it is a Morrissey fan. Sure @rifke acts the part of dominatrix. She chided me to quit painting coloring book drawings and come up with my own. I'm glad she had the guts to. She's a much appreciated troll. There you go.
 

Light Housework

drawing/coloring
For me, there are two distinct Solo periods; 2004-2011, and then the last 10 years. I started lurking in the "comeback" period when Moz seemed very high-profile. He appeared on Jonathan Ross, he'd had sold-out live shows, there was so much activity here - trolls got lost in the buzz . That carried on through Ringleader, the Greatest British Icon thing, even Refusal. It was just a great time to be a fan.

2010 and onwards was when things started sliding, for me. A number of disasters seemed to coincide in 2011 - no record deal, a very poor batch of new songs, tone-deaf Norway comments, banning David T from concerts, the "F- Morrissey-Solo" T-Shirts...it felt like Morrissey was 'going to war' with his fans and that really changed my perception of the mood on here. The atmosphere became more critical, fans seemed to split into 2 camps & a lot of old users defected to a more "positive, pro-Moz" site.

I don't think that 'slide' ever stopped, sadly. For me, the more bleak things became (shows cancelled, albums poorly received, more time without a record deal, more ill-advised comments, 'scandals' etc, etc) - the more we seem to trawl through the discography, the A-Z of songs, the Top 100, the Smiths questions, Sam's crap Photoshops. This is "legacy artist" stuff or the kind of content you'd expect when an artist has retired, not stuff we'd be doing if he was at the top of his game.

As for what the site means? To be a diehard through endless Wilderness periods and then watch that person become a genuine hate figure, "cancelled" as a fascist, isolated, posting unhinged rants from the Sunset Marquis... it's f***ing heartbreaking. This forum isn't a 'fandom' now, it feels more like a therapy group. A bunch of people trying to process the '15 miles of shit' Moz is dragging our faces in, whilst saying, "Oh, but this B-side from 1997 is gold!"
2011/12 were horrifying years for me.
 

rifke

bodhisattva
Look at my thread, and tell me trolls have taken over. Everyone who posts on it is a Morrissey fan. Sure @rifke acts the part of dominatrix. She chided me to quit painting coloring book drawings and come up with my own. I'm glad she had the guts to. She's a much appreciated troll. There you go.
well i told you to take off to a katy perry forum too, but you didnt do that now did you?
 

Catholic

English Blood, Irish Heart
For me, there are two distinct Solo periods; 2004-2011, and then the last 10 years. I started lurking in the "comeback" period when Moz seemed very high-profile. He appeared on Jonathan Ross, he'd had sold-out live shows, there was so much activity here - trolls got lost in the buzz . That carried on through Ringleader, the Greatest British Icon thing, even Refusal. It was just a great time to be a fan.

2010 and onwards was when things started sliding, for me. A number of disasters seemed to coincide in 2011 - no record deal, a very poor batch of new songs, tone-deaf Norway comments, banning David T from concerts, the "F- Morrissey-Solo" T-Shirts...it felt like Morrissey was 'going to war' with his fans and that really changed my perception of the mood on here. The atmosphere became more critical, fans seemed to split into 2 camps & a lot of old users defected to a more "positive, pro-Moz" site.

I don't think that 'slide' ever stopped, sadly. For me, the more bleak things become (shows cancelled, albums poorly received, more time without a record deal, more ill-advised comments, 'scandals' etc, etc) - the more we seem to trawl through the discography, the A-Z of songs, the Top 100, Smiths questions, Sam's crap Photoshops. This is "legacy artist" stuff or the kind of content you'd expect when an artist has retired, not stuff we'd be doing if he was at the top of his game.

As for what the site means? To be a diehard through endless Wilderness periods and then watch that person become a genuine hate figure, "cancelled" as a fascist and a racist, isolated, posting unhinged rants from the Sunset Marquis... it's f***ing heartbreaking. This forum isn't a 'fandom' now, it feels more like a therapy group. A bunch of people trying to process the miles of shit we're being dragged in, saying, "Oh, but this B-side from 1997 is gold!"

Thank you for ALL of this so far.

But Amy I find your insight helpful and yes heartbreaking.

(In past exchanges between you and Nerak, I might have agreed more with Nerak about things like Morrissey's Irish Catholic roots etc. But I have valued your intelligent analysis as someone living intensely with this Morrissey phenomenon over many years and obviously searching for answers to everything it poses.)

Again though I'm grateful for ALL of the above. Still digesting ...
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
From my pov Morrissey's problems in the past ten years are connected to problems in the wider arts industry - the rise in social media, how difficult it is to monetize content.

I've seen artists completely destroyed by Twitter scandals - can't get any work, suicides, friends turned on them, too young to have much of a legacy - he's had a hard time but he's surviving quite well. There's nothing unfixable & the work exists.
 
Top Bottom