The Britishness of Southpaw Grammar

[thewarroom]

I have often read about how this album is very British, more so than many other Moz records and that Americans are not supposed to "get it". And I have to say, I'm an American midwesterner and I "understand" the record just fine.

Other than the reference to Dagenham (a place that most Americans have likely never heard of), a lot of the themes seem fairly universal. We have eduacation issues and tyrannical teachers and professors, we are jealous of those who seem to be popular for no reason and thus feel that they have a sense of entitlement that we do not (which is what I interpret Boy Racer to be about), and realizing that we may have lost our childhood or never had one to begin with. I still don't know what "Best Friend on the Payroll" is supposed to mean. Reader Meet Author is about Moz' fans, The Operation is about a relationship gone bad, Do Your Best and Don't Worry I'm also not too certain of, but its a good song .

Am I really missing something with this album? Is there a large connecting thread between the songs that I am passing over?

 

[Please]

There are certain issues that only the British and further more the English can truly grasp. That goes for both The Smiths and Morrissey as a solo artist. The attitude of the English is alot different to that of the American attitude or outlook. At least as far as i can tell.

It is often clear on this board that there is a definate void for non-british fans

 

[dislocate my shoulder]

It is often clear on this board that there is a definate void for non-british fans

Could you clarify, please?

 

[Kumo]

One of the things that attracted me to the Smiths is that I hated living in LA as a teen and loved all the uniquely British references.

As for Southpaw, if you shut off the vocals and just listen to the music, it's complete and utter crap. Not only did Moz continue to use his mediocre band but didn't have a good producer to bring out a great sound. That's why the album was a complete disaster.

Kumo

 

[Maurice E]

One of the things that attracted me to the Smiths is that I hated living in LA as a teen and loved all the uniquely British references.

As for Southpaw, if you shut off the vocals and just listen to the music, it's complete and utter crap. Not only did Moz continue to use his mediocre band but didn't have a good producer to bring out a great sound. That's why the album was a complete disaster.

Kumo

Southpaw is easily the worst album but even I would stop short from calling the music complete and utter crap! Reader Meet Author is a great piece of music; nice violins and a very melodic guitar part. Boy Racer would also have been a great single if the pointless last 40 seconds of feedback had been removed, and I think the song Southpaw is also quite good, but that's about it!
Perhaps this thread should be called The Pantsness of Southpaw Grammar!

 

[vicarinatutugal]

One of the things that attracted me to the Smiths is that I hated living in LA as a teen and loved all the uniquely British references.

As for Southpaw, if you shut off the vocals and just listen to the music, it's complete and utter crap. Not only did Moz continue to use his mediocre band but didn't have a good producer to bring out a great sound. That's why the album was a complete disaster.

Kumo

Southpaw including the music to it, is one of my favourite songs. I adore it.
Horses for courses... I guess.

 

[TrueToYou]

i think it's an amazing, probably his best (on the darker days)

 

[MozzaBedfordSpur]

"Best friend on the payroll" as I interpret (minimal lyrics) is about a good friend house sharing, who is overbearing, full of complaints, but brings nothing to the house and doesn't pay their way.

 

[Please]

Could you clarify, please?

Just certain questions that are asked, it would be the same the otherway round. So much of Morrisseys work is England, with parts of it being influenced by ther cultures. The references to England/Britain, some of the symbolism and phrasing of sentences can only truly be identified with by the English/British. That is not me or any other fan being a snob, its just a fact. The same applies to Bruce Springstein et al

There has only been that diaspora in recent years, where LA, Italy have come in as part of the credible fabric of his writing.

 

[Please]

One of the things that attracted me to the Smiths is that I hated living in LA as a teen and loved all the uniquely British references.

As for Southpaw, if you shut off the vocals and just listen to the music, it's complete and utter crap. Not only did Moz continue to use his mediocre band but didn't have a good producer to bring out a great sound. That's why the album was a complete disaster.

Kumo

Southpaw was a commericial disaster because the wider music buying public did not like the fact that Morrissey was not being paraded as a one trick show pony. The backing music waqs darker and more serious than in the past and this really was a sucker punch for some people

 

[dislocate my shoulder]

Just certain questions that are asked, it would be the same the otherway round. So much of Morrisseys work is England, with parts of it being influenced by ther cultures. The references to England/Britain, some of the symbolism and phrasing of sentences can only truly be identified with by the English/British. That is not me or any other fan being a snob, its just a fact. The same applies to Bruce Springstein et al

There has only been that diaspora in recent years, where LA, Italy have come in as part of the credible fabric of his writing.

I see. I think all kind of communication between people is subjective, that is, the received is never what was sent (in smaller or greater scale).
If we speak Morrissey, so it's important that English has the status of a major language and is therefore more available also for non native speakers. As you encounter it on the net and elsewhere, you do not find it that distant anymore. The cultural things is a more difficult issue. Perhaps this certain gap is filled with additional information that is only relevant for the specific non English listener. That's at least how the classic works of art survive through time and space.
Another possibility is that you can create an abstract universe, where proper nouns are just signs without any physical anchorage - especially if you are devoid of cultural grounding and just immersed in a foreign environment without combining with it.

 

[triumphs&charms]

The Operation is about a relationship gone bad

I've always thought it was Moz meeting Moz, in a typically depressed way of course.

"With a tear that's a mile wide
In the kite that you're flying"

My music, entire product even, is flawed and hypocritical.

"Ever since
You don't look the same
You're just not the same, no way"

...as when I was in The Smiths. I've lost it.

"You don't catch what I'm saying
When you're deafened to advice"

I'm pig-headed and haughty.

"Sad to say...
How once I was in love with you"

I once had a modicum of self-respect. All in the past now!

 

[thewarroom]

I've always thought it was Moz meeting Moz, in a typically depressed way of course.

"With a tear that's a mile wide
In the kite that you're flying"

My music, entire product even, is flawed and hypocritical.

"Ever since
You don't look the same
You're just not the same, no way"

...as when I was in The Smiths. I've lost it.

"You don't catch what I'm saying
When you're deafened to advice"

I'm pig-headed and haughty.

"Sad to say...
How once I was in love with you"

I once had a modicum of self-respect. All in the past now!

That's an interesting interpretation. Never thought of it that way!

 

[Kumo]

LA, Italy have come in as part of the credible fabric of his writing.

My home town and the nation of my citizenship... kinda funny...

Kumo

 

[Please]

My home town and the nation of my citizenship... kinda funny...

Kumo

hmm i suppose

 

[TrueToYou]

My home town and the nation of my citizenship... kinda funny...

Kumo

not amazingly.

 

[SouthpawGlamour]

Americans tend to be a bit dim.

 

[MindlessRuffian]

One of the things that attracted me to the Smiths is that I hated living in LA as a teen and loved all the uniquely British references.

Same here. If I wanted a band/singer who represented the New York/ New Jersey area that I live in I'd listen to Interpol or the Bouncing Souls...or something. I always liked music that represented a culture that I knew little about.

DXS

 

[MindlessRuffian]

Americans tend to be a bit dim.

That generalization is a little upsetting. But based on what is oftentimes portrayed by the average American, sadly true.

DXS

 

[thewarroom]

Americans tend to be a bit dim.

Now now don't stereotype us all like that. That's like saying that all Brits have bad teeth and watch cricket . I think that most of the Americans here are reasonably intelligent (obviously, as we listen to Moz! ).