the view of morrissey in the eyes of a layman

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
morrissey's only relevance in modern 'culture' is as just another signifier to young people who subscribe to a charity-shop lifestyle as perhaps the last icon of the now faded pop age...his life, image - and also, to a lesser degree, his music post 'everyday is like sunday' is of no interest to the 'layman' as you put it(even the layman with an appreciation of music and culture). certainly his name to most younger people that fall into the bracket of "what we hastily call the british working class" means very little, just a dimly lit name connoting depression and general gayness.

Which, by no accident, leads us to... Why are you here?
 

Suzi

Meretricious
are they in their mid 20s though?

No, why? I am 26, they are all over 30, mostly mid to late 30's.

I did get the "Who, Jim Morrison?" line from a guy at work, but the best one was this:

Me: I love Morrissey the best.
So-called person: Why don't you go to Asda?
 

murder and desire

Junior Member
morrissey's only relevance in modern 'culture' is as just another signifier to young people who subscribe to a charity-shop lifestyle as perhaps the last icon of the now faded pop age...his life, image - and also, to a lesser degree, his music post 'everyday is like sunday' is of no interest to the 'layman' as you put it(even the layman with an appreciation of music and culture). certainly his name to most younger people that fall into the bracket of "what we hastily call the british working class" means very little, just a dimly lit name connoting depression and general gayness.


Considering Morrissey is in his 50's he is doing very well at being "relevant" among the young and with it- more so than most of his peers ,by a long walk.
Most indie bands in the UK and the States have been influenced by Morrissey and even though they can be cruel about him, a lot seem to still like him.
Don't forget it was only a few years ago The Guardian printed the lyrics to I have Forgiven Jesus on the front of the paper.
As for the Working class comment, it is now as was always thus, it depends what working class people you speak to.
I know of people in the 80s who didn't know who Morrissey was.
 

JD93

New Member
Considering Morrissey is in his 50's he is doing very well at being "relevant" among the young and with it- more so than most of his peers ,by a long walk.
Most indie bands in the UK and the States have been influenced by Morrissey and even though they can be cruel about him, a lot seem to still like him.
Don't forget it was only a few years ago The Guardian printed the lyrics to I have Forgiven Jesus on the front of the paper.
As for the Working class comment, it is now as was always thus, it depends what working class people you speak to.
I know of people in the 80s who didn't know who Morrissey was.

that's a good point but the indie bands seem to take after his smiths image rather than anything he has done since...if you asked them - or even people like russell brand and marcus brigstocke - about his writing outside of the realm of english miserablism covered best with the smiths, they would probably be very hard-pressed to give you an answer. i don't know this for sure but it seems pretty accurate given the way they talk about him. 2004 is an age away - it was only for that year that morrissey was deemed cool for the NME, guardian etc. zane lowe's interviews with him are embarassing, it's easy to see when people have a vague interest in morrissey because he was once cool
now he has more relevance to listeners of radio 4 and guardian readers than anywhere else, who seem to see him as a sort of expat national treasure that's also a bit of an idiot at times, but that's all part of teh fun
 

murder and desire

Junior Member
that's a good point but the indie bands seem to take after his smiths image rather than anything he has done since...if you asked them - or even people like russell brand and marcus brigstocke - about his writing outside of the realm of english miserablism covered best with the smiths, they would probably be very hard-pressed to give you an answer. i don't know this for sure but it seems pretty accurate given the way they talk about him. 2004 is an age away - it was only for that year that morrissey was deemed cool for the NME, guardian etc. zane lowe's interviews with him are embarassing, it's easy to see when people have a vague interest in morrissey because he was once cool
now he has more relevance to listeners of radio 4 and guardian readers than anywhere else, who seem to see him as a sort of expat national treasure that's also a bit of an idiot at times, but that's all part of teh fun

Who would ask Brand anything about Morrissey? He is a fan but he has never really understood him, he is the type who fell for the media tales and the myth. I don't know who this Brig fellow is.
Not everyone got into Morrissey via The Smurfs, I know a number of people who got into his stuff via his solo career.
Then you have got the fact that outside England his fame grew post 1995.
Anyway, name one person who anyones cares about in music these days?
The XX and The Wild beasts are two good bands and The villagers are interesting but who cares what the singers of those bands have to say or Thom York for that that matter?

You are being rather harsh on Moz, yes he is older and yes the passing of time makes one less relevant but relevance is a passing fad anyway it's the songs that count and he still makes good songs.
 
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murder and desire

Junior Member
a third quote "he didnt look anything like i seen him on the adverts for his albums on the cover, them pictures must have been taken ages ago, he were right skinny in face w.i. a stuck up hairstyle" so for me even the layman picks up on the things we do and ask the question why?

Yes but the pictures were taken for songs that were, mostly, recorded ages ago.
Other artists do the same thing, in music or other areas.
When people release LPs for Elvis they don't have a picture of a corpse on the cover.
 

JD93

New Member
Who would ask Brand anything about Morrissey? He is a fan but he has never really understood him, he is the type who fell for the media tales and the myth. I don't know who this Brig fellow is.
Not everyone got into Morrissey via The Smurfs, I know a number of people who got into his stuff via his solo career.
Then you have got the fact that outside England his fame grew post 1995.
Anyway, name one person who anyones cares about in music these days?
The XX and The Wild beasts are two good bands and The villagers are interesting but who cares what the singers of those bands have to say or Thom York for that that matter?

You are being rather harsh on Moz, yes he is older and yes the passing of time makes one less relevant but relevance is a passing fad anyway it's the songs that count and he still makes good songs.

everything you say is true and i agree he still makes good songs, for those who care to listen. but when the general perception of him is considered, he might as well have died in 1988 and the general view of him would be the same - well, apart from the fact that he would be even more famous than he is now.
 

murder and desire

Junior Member
everything you say is true and i agree he still makes good songs, for those who care to listen. but when the general perception of him is considered, he might as well have died in 1988 and the general view of him would be the same - well, apart from the fact that he would be even more famous than he is now.

Yes, but that is because he isn't a prat like Albarn or Madonna who feels he has to have a new lifestyle every time he makes a record.
Morrissey is who he is, he was never going to suddenly go Drum and (oh, how) bass.
The art of Morrissey is to join no gang and many gangs all at once. Morrissey set his stall out very early on, he had to move on slightly from the Smiths as that was a working class art statement.
But he has remained close to how he always was because he is how he always was (aren't we all),. Of course he has become more content, that comes with age and I expect the money helps.
Of course if Bowie died even though he has hopped about one would still get the images of the 70s rather than post 79. Its the same with Elvis and others.
The Image that the public keeps is that which punched them first.
 

murder and desire

Junior Member
sorry to sound rude but i think this thread may be more applicable to people from northern england (as morrissey is) and its attitudes and the social mouldings that made morrissey what he is rather than americans and what not who may not really know much about it, no offence meant sorry.

You sound like such a professional Northerner.
You do know there is no "spiritual" divide between the north and south in the UK.
Its a class divide and the working class are the same up and down the country apart from in the South East.
Plus, Manchester is a city like Liverpool,,Bristol,Oxford,Birmingham a city with a big working class community and a number of students (its the mix thats important), Morrissey is not someone from a village.
Its worth noting The Smiths share little in common with any bands from the north. In fact the Two bands The Smiths are most like are The Kinks and The Jam (two of Morrisseys fave bands) and they were from the south.

I agree there are somethings that people from outside of the UK don't pick up on but i don't think this thread is relevant to that.
 
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Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
firstly the guy is a 25 yr old rugby league playing labourer from castleford who could be no more a typical stereotype of a modern 25 year old today in britain if you tried to create one,.

Castleford? Well that says it all :squiffy: :p
 

the_kaz

Active Member
That ilk of person would say that about, Thom York, Nick Drake, L Cohen etc etc .
Basically anyones who isn't of the steps, take that or blur ilk.
Nowt to worry about.

Actually, what really bothers me about the "whiney" claim is that, more often than not, the people who say it are fans of Radiohead and/or Coldplay. One person I know, who otherwise has excellent taste in music, had the nerve to say that Morrissey and The Smiths are "depressing", and yet is a fan of Joy Division. :straightface:
 

Worm

Taste the diffidence
morrissey's only relevance in modern 'culture' is as just another signifier to young people who subscribe to a charity-shop lifestyle as perhaps the last icon of the now faded pop age...his life, image - and also, to a lesser degree, his music post 'everyday is like sunday' is of no interest to the 'layman' as you put it(even the layman with an appreciation of music and culture). certainly his name to most younger people that fall into the bracket of "what we hastily call the british working class" means very little, just a dimly lit name connoting depression and general gayness.

True. Do the charity-shop kids use Morrissey as an accessory to go along with other enthusiasms or do they like him because he's unique and nobody else has replaced him? Forced nostalgia?
 
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