Two Andy Rourke co-writes being played on this tour. Could it be...

King Leer

Leering since '97
the Mozfather's way of offering an olive branch, or a little dosh for Andy's past efforts? (Yes, I Am Blind is a minor classic, Girl Least… fun, but not so much) Or would Andy not see live royalties if he's not playing on the tour himself?

Andy and Johnny seem to be getting on like a house on fire recently, playing on stage together in Brazil etc.

Wouldn't it be the ultimate, teeth-gnashing insult to Joyce if The Smiths reformed without him? "It's either all four or nothing," some might say, but I'm pretty sure the offers would be huge with 3/4 of the original members. Matt Walker on drums, or perhaps an old Manchester cohort from another band of The Smiths' era.

Then again, maybe Morrissey just looked over his back catalogue and thought "Why not?" without a care about who co-wrote the songs. Yeah…nah.
 

stux

Loyal fan
Obviously we dont know the facts about this but andy rourke has been quoted as saying that he never received anything for his morrissey co-writes.

Rather than an olive branch its more likely to rub salt into an already painfull wound.
 

King Leer

Leering since '97
Could very well be -- though why now?
But Rourke is obviously not on the same plane of hatred for Morrissey as Joyce.
Morrissey was quite complimentary of Rourke's bass lines in Autobiography.
Hmm.

Obviously we dont know the facts about this but andy rourke has been quoted as saying that he never received anything for his morrissey co-writes.

Rather than an olive branch its more likely to rub salt into an already painfull wound.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It is my understanding that Andy Rourke sold his royalty rights when he was strapped for cash some years ago. So he gets no royalties for any live performances, or reissues.
 

King Leer

Leering since '97
You're right, I do remember him selling his "royalty stream". Was it on eBay?
But I thought nobody bought it.

It is my understanding that Andy Rourke sold his royalty rights when he was strapped for cash some years ago. So he gets no royalties for any live performances, or reissues.
 

BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy - "Facebook Non-Entity"
the Mozfather's way of offering an olive branch, or a little dosh for Andy's past efforts? (Yes, I Am Blind is a minor classic, Girl Least… fun, but not so much) Or would Andy not see live royalties if he's not playing on the tour himself?

Andy and Johnny seem to be getting on like a house on fire recently, playing on stage together in Brazil etc.

Wouldn't it be the ultimate, teeth-gnashing insult to Joyce if The Smiths reformed without him? "It's either all four or nothing," some might say, but I'm pretty sure the offers would be huge with 3/4 of the original members. Matt Walker on drums, or perhaps an old Manchester cohort from another band of The Smiths' era.

Then again, maybe Morrissey just looked over his back catalogue and thought "Why not?" without a care about who co-wrote the songs. Yeah…nah.


Black Sabbath re-united without drummer Bill Ward. It wasn't the same: it was better.

Best
BB
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
the Mozfather's way of offering an olive branch, or a little dosh for Andy's past efforts? (Yes, I Am Blind is a minor classic, Girl Least… fun, but not so much) Or would Andy not see live royalties if he's not playing on the tour himself?

Andy and Johnny seem to be getting on like a house on fire recently, playing on stage together in Brazil etc.

Wouldn't it be the ultimate, teeth-gnashing insult to Joyce if The Smiths reformed without him? "It's either all four or nothing," some might say, but I'm pretty sure the offers would be huge with 3/4 of the original members. Matt Walker on drums, or perhaps an old Manchester cohort from another band of The Smiths' era.

Then again, maybe Morrissey just looked over his back catalogue and thought "Why not?" without a care about who co-wrote the songs. Yeah…nah.

As long as you own at least part of a song's copyright, you can perform it live without having to ask permission or pay the other co-writer(s) -- in America anyway (I don't know about copyright laws elsewhere). So in all fairness, legally speaking, Andy Rourke could also go ahead and perform these two songs without asking Morrissey for permission or paying him either. Recorded material, that's a different matter.
 

bored

Lust a prima vista
Obviously we dont know the facts about this but andy rourke has been quoted as saying that he never received anything for his morrissey co-writes.

Rather than an olive branch its more likely to rub salt into an already painfull wound.

If I were to speculate I'd say he doesn't really care about who co-wrote the songs. He plays what he wants to play.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Morrissey doesn't need permission from anybody to sing anything live - however, any co-authors should be getting performance royalties. So at the end of each tour, the likes of Johnny Marr and Alain Whyte should still be getting a decent paycheck for the literally hundreds of song performances racked up on each tour - even though they were axed away years ago.

In Rourke's case, he only has a couple of co-writes, which isn't going to add up to much dosh anyway, but he still claims he doesn't get paid anything. My hunch is this is down to one of two reasons:

1)he sold his publishing/royalty rights away at some point in the past when he was broke, and needed some cash.
2)devious and truculent Morrissey simply refuses to pay anyone, and unless you want to try and drag him to court (spending thousands of pounds in the process) it simply isn't worth the hassle of pursuing.

Given what we know about the two personalities, either option seems perfectly likely.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I believe Andy sold his royalty stream for The Smiths. He may also have sold his songwriting rights for his work with Morrissey, but I don't think that info has ever been mentioned anywhere.

I think the sudden appearance of these two songs must mean there has been a reconciliation, and also that Moz wants that to be inferred.

If there has been an issue in the past with Moz not bothering to pay Andy, that would be easy for him to fix with a phonecall if they have now patched things up.
 

RobLand

Visitor since 1997
I thought Rourke sold the rights to his royalty stream only for his contribution to the Smiths. That would not include any other stuff he did right? If that is right, then these 2 songs he did with Moz wold still generate royalties for him
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Do you get royalties from live shows? If the show was recorded and sold you would but otherwise I think you don't get anything. I could be wrong. It would not be the first time.
 

marred

Member
the Mozfather's way of offering an olive branch, or a little dosh for Andy's past efforts? (Yes, I Am Blind is a minor classic, Girl Least… fun, but not so much) Or would Andy not see live royalties if he's not playing on the tour himself?

Andy and Johnny seem to be getting on like a house on fire recently, playing on stage together in Brazil etc.

Wouldn't it be the ultimate, teeth-gnashing insult to Joyce if The Smiths reformed without him? "It's either all four or nothing," some might say, but I'm pretty sure the offers would be huge with 3/4 of the original members. Matt Walker on drums, or perhaps an old Manchester cohort from another band of The Smiths' era.

Then again, maybe Morrissey just looked over his back catalogue and thought "Why not?" without a care about who co-wrote the songs. Yeah…nah.

I want the Smiths to reform like I want a hole in my head but your suggestion of what it would mean to Joyce to see them get back together briefly without him is too good to imagine. Am I evil because I'm rubbing my hands together now or is it the weather? Actually it's quite sunny here.
 

Abernathy

nice shooting, sweetheart
They are never ever ever getting back together.

 
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Anonymous

Guest

mcrickson

Reckless Endangerment
I think the sudden appearance of these two songs must mean there has been a reconciliation, and also that Moz wants that to be inferred.

I somehow really don't think that is the case — even if Andy is getting something out of it. I bet if Morrissey had ever written a song with Mike Joyce in the past — and it was halfway decent — he'd trot it out at some point, like he's doing with the Rourke co-writes. To me it seems like these things come down less to if he likes who he wrote the songs with (didn't he go two decades without so much as talking to Stephen Street?) and more about if he likes the song.

I remember he chose to play "Girl Least Likely To" on the Dermot O'Leary interview when "The Very Best of.." came out — I think, to him, the song has just really aged well, and he likes it.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Performance royalties are for performing live -- not for writing the songs, then someone else performing then live while you are watching TV in the comfort of your own home or something. Andy Rourke would only get a performance royalty if he were on that stage with Morrissey, which he isn't.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Also, let's be honest - 'Girl Least Likely' to is musically a complete rip off of The Cookies 'Only to Other People', so I'm not gong to lose too much sleep over Andy missing out on royalties. Frankly, he's lucky he wasn't sued.

http://youtu.be/wa7J8lDgbXk

Peronally I suspect Moz just gave Andy a copy of the Cookie song, and told him 'give me a backing track that sounds like this', so he did. The co-composer credit at the time was probably an olive branch to help persuade him to drop the court case with Mike over Smiths royalties. I'm sure he made a few quid out of it at the time it first came out.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Also, let's be honest - 'Girl Least Likely' to is musically a complete rip off of The Cookies 'Only to Other People', so I'm not gong to lose too much sleep over Andy missing out on royalties. Frankly, he's lucky he wasn't sued.

http://youtu.be/wa7J8lDgbXk

Peronally I suspect Moz just gave Andy a copy of the Cookie song, and told him 'give me a backing track that sounds like this', so he did. The co-composer credit at the time was probably an olive branch to help persuade him to drop the court case with Mike over Smiths royalties. I'm sure he made a few quid out of it at the time it first came out.
I agree with you about the song "Girl Least Likely Too". I don't like the song "Get Off The Stage". The only ok song that Andy Rourke co-wrote was "Yes, I'm blind".

The Smiths will never get back together. Maybe one day Morrissey and Johnny Marr might work together again. But Morrissey and Andy Rourke will never work together again. The court case put an end to that.
 
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