Does Morrissey have the heart of the "Bushido Warrior"

[dreamchild]

It is interesting to think about this topic, one must strike a delicate balance between the inner poet and the vicious fighting thug.


Does Morrissey's wordplay and skillful lyrical nuance indicate a "warrior poet" type personality similar to those in ancient cultures i.e. the samurai with their death poems and calligraphy, the senatorial Romans able to create law, order and great works of art whilst still conquering most of Europe or the Greeks, mighty philosophers and givers of modern civilization.


Does Morrissey share similar traits with these men?, they knew the value of art and the soul, express themselves not with a vulgar groin thrust or swear word but with true soul touching heart rending art.


We all know that Morrissey likes boxing so he is a good fighter because he had scars and bruises on him once and his mate Jake taught him all the dirty tricks and illegal holds and that he is a masterful musician and lyricist able to tug at our heart chords with his fingers and hit our brain drums with his clever words so in conclusion I would say he is a modern "warrior poet".

 

[Kewpie]

I'm afraid I don't find any comptemporary musician who has a spirit of samurai warrior.
In fact I have never met a fellow human who has one.

I bet Morrissey hasn't touched any Mishima / Tanizaki's novels.

 

[Pussy Galore]

Kewpie - do you have the heart of a Bushido Warrior??

 

[Kewpie]

No, I'm not a warrior, haven't met one.

Thank goodness I only know the existance / concept of a warrior through novels / films.

 

[dreamchild]

I didn't mean to ask if Morrissey is a samurai warrior, of coure he is not, I just used the term "bushido warrior" as a sort of loose term for artistic, violent poet which I think Morrissey is.

 

[Jackie London]

It is interesting to think about this topic, one must strike a delicate balance between the inner poet and the vicious fighting thug.


Does Morrissey's wordplay and skillful lyrical nuance indicate a "warrior poet" type personality similar to those in ancient cultures i.e. the samurai with their death poems and calligraphy, the senatorial Romans able to create law, order and great works of art whilst still conquering most of Europe or the Greeks, mighty philosophers and givers of modern civilization.


Does Morrissey share similar traits with these men?, they knew the value of art and the soul, express themselves not with a vulgar groin thrust or swear word but with true soul touching heart rending art.


We all know that Morrissey likes boxing so he is a good fighter because he had scars and bruises on him once and his mate Jake taught him all the dirty tricks and illegal holds and that he is a masterful musician and lyricist able to tug at our heart chords with his fingers and hit our brain drums with his clever words so in conclusion I would say he is a modern "warrior poet".

The picture you draw up about samurais, romans etc., I'm not really sure how accurate it is. We often have this stereotype idea about "the noble savage", but that is often a very much simplified and stereotype picture. People from ancient cultures were just as complex as we are. Even if someone would be this noble samurai, a "bushido warrior" or whatever, that doesn't mean that that is all that person is, naturally that person has many different sides of themselves just like we have. I don't actually get what you mean, do you mean if Morrissey personifies the idea about the samurais, romans etc.?

 

[Kewpie]

I didn't mean to ask if Morrissey is a samurai warrior, of coure he is not, I just used the term "bushido warrior" as a sort of loose term for artistic, violent poet which I think Morrissey is.

A samurai and a bushi are exactly the same.

 

[dreamchild]

Im asking if Morrissey has the personification of the "artistic warrior" type personality, I just used those people as examples but they had it so it must have floated down their bloodlines into some of us modern people and I think it is in Morrissey's blood. If he has had a blood test it may be indicative in the result, what does "Mozipedia" say on this matter???

 

[Kewpie]

Im asking if Morrissey has the personification of the "artistic warrior" type personality, I just used those people as examples but they had it so it must have floated down their bloodlines into some of us modern people and I think it is in Morrissey's blood. If he has had a blood test it may be indicative in the result, what does "Mozipedia" say on this matter?

Simon Goddard and Mark Simpson are totally different.

Simpson would be amused by your stuff.

 

[Jackie London]

Im asking if Morrissey has the personification of the "artistic warrior" type personality, I just used those people as examples but they had it so it must have floated down their bloodlines into some of us modern people and I think it is in Morrissey's blood. If he has had a blood test it may be indicative in the result, what does "Mozipedia" say on this matter???

It's possible he has some of the features that you are describing. But "the artistic warrior" is sort of a theoretical model that is used to describe something, it doesn't "actually" exist, it's a result of our inability to describe the reality in words. It's a theoretical category, and in reality people are to complex to be categorized.
But my question is also did "they" really have it? If categories doesn't exist today, why would they exist in the past? It's impossible today to know how ancient people were, what they thought etc. We can try to recreate it but it's impossible to say anything for sure. And even if they had this artistic warrior personality that is not all they were, they were so much more. Discussions like this always get anachronistic, because the terms aren't really applicable. It's a bit like asking if the prophet Muhammed was a feminist.

 

[dreamchild]

It's possible he has some of the features that you are describing. But "the artistic warrior" is sort of a theoretical model that is used to describe something, it doesn't "actually" exist, it's a result of our inability to describe the reality in words. It's a theoretical category, and in reality people are to complex to be categorized.
But my question is also did "they" really have it? If categories doesn't exist today, why would they exist in the past? It's impossible today to know how ancient people were, what they thought etc. We can try to recreate it but it's impossible to say anything for sure. And even if they had this artistic warrior personality that is not all they were, they were so much more. Discussions like this always get anachronistic, because the terms aren't really applicable. It's a bit like asking if the prophet Muhammed was a feminist.

Thank you for this reply, however one must notice the high degree of violence prevelant in a good number of Morrissey's songs, he signs about slitting throats explicitly in at least two.

 

[Jackie London]

Thank you for this reply, however one must notice the high degree of violence prevelant in a good number of Morrissey's songs, he signs about slitting throats explicitly in at least two.

Is it some lyrics in particular you're thinking about? Because in some of the lyrics where he refers to violence I personally interpret that as metaphores, I don't take that literally... it's easy to say that you want someones head on a plate, but to what degree you actually mean it is another question.

 

[dreamchild]

Just look at "sorrow will come at the end" and "mama lay softly on the riverbed", these both have throat cutting references that are meant to be taken literally.

 

[Jackie London]

Just look at "sorrow will come at the end" and "mama lay softly on the riverbed", these both have throat cutting references that are meant to be taken literally.

It's possible that it's meant literally, I don't know. But as I see it, he's expressing something he feels. And as I see it, what he expressing isn't something you need to be a samurai to feel, I would guess that a lot of people feel like that sometimes. And it's possible that it's not beautiful feelings he's expressing. But it's not really an artists job to only express the beautiful. An artist has to document everything, not just the things that for the moment is politically correct. I had this discussion with a friend some days ago, she had just seen Lars von Triers movie "Antichrist" and she was upset because she thought the movie was disgusting and she just felt disgust after seeing it, so she tought it was pointless. I also felt disgust after seeing it but I think it was one of the best movies I have ever seen, because all this horror and disgust exist and an artist must be allowed to express it. It's not their job to just express the beauty, they should express everything. Because we do feel these things, and artists shouldn't pass moral judgements by refusing to admit these feelings. So why shouldn't Morrissey express violence in his lyrics if that's how he feel?

 

[Kewpie]

Just look at "sorrow will come at the end" and "mama lay softly on the riverbed", these both have throat cutting references that are meant to be taken literally.

IMHO, 'Sorrow Will Come in the End' is a childish rant, I can't take it seriously.

'Mama Lay Softly on the Riverbed' reminds me of Charles Laughton's masterpiece 'The Night of the Hunter'.

 

[dunya]

It's possible that it's meant literally, I don't know. But as I see it, he's expressing something he feels. And as I see it, what he expressing isn't something you need to be a samurai to feel, I would guess that a lot of people feel like that sometimes. And it's possible that it's not beautiful feelings he's expressing. But it's not really an artists job to only express the beautiful. An artist has to document everything, not just the things that for the moment is politically correct. I had this discussion with a friend some days ago, she had just seen Lars von Triers movie "Antichrist" and she was upset because she thought the movie was disgusting and she just felt disgust after seeing it, so she tought it was pointless. I also felt disgust after seeing it but I think it was one of the best movies I have ever seen, because all this horror and disgust exist and an artist must be allowed to express it. It's not their job to just express the beauty, they should express everything. Because we do feel these things, and artists shouldn't pass moral judgements by refusing to admit these feelings. So why shouldn't Morrissey express violence in his lyrics if that's how he feel?

Some people argue that the purpose of Art is to express beauty. But that is debatable.

It's an interesting point that you argue that Morrissey should express all his feelings, even the violent ones. Morrissey takes the risk of being misunderstood by writing about a wider range of topics and practicing less self-censorship in expressing himself than the average songwriter, leaving the morality to the listener to a greater extent than is usually noticed.

The controversial reaction to artists comes when the listener, or the Media interpret the work as encouraging violent behaviour, condoning it, or not making their moral position sufficiently explicit.

The Bushido code requires high standard of personal conduct.
Practicing martial arts demands physical and mental discipline and the right attitude of mind. It's not enough to know how to fight, it's about knowing when to fight and how to avoid a fight.

It's possible to call Morrissey a poet, and possible that he might practice some form of martial art too. But I wouldn't like to describe him as exemplifying a combination of these.

 

[Troy]

Re: Bruce Lee said . . .

. . . its best not to fight and he was the ultimate modern day warrior with both a massive physical, intellectual and spiritual strength.

I cannot believe Morrissey has ever been in a fight, the photographed 'bruises' were stage make up, he is fond of the sport of boxing but am sure he has never participated.

The written word has been the cause of World Wars, the pen is mightier than the sword . . .

. . . and we all all enjoy Morrissey'S words.

 

[Jackie London]

Some people argue that the purpose of Art is to express beauty. But that is debatable.

It's an interesting point that you argue that Morrissey should express all his feelings, even the violent ones. Morrissey takes the risk of being misunderstood by writing about a wider range of topics and practicing less self-censorship in expressing himself than the average songwriter, leaving the morality to the listener to a greater extent than is usually noticed.

The controversial reaction to artists comes when the listener, or the Media interpret the work as encouraging violent behaviour, condoning it, or not making their moral position sufficiently explicit.

The Bushido code requires high standard of personal conduct.
Practicing martial arts demands physical and mental discipline and the right attitude of mind. It's not enough to know how to fight, it's about knowing when to fight and how to avoid a fight.

It's possible to call Morrissey a poet, and possible that he might practice some form of martial art too. But I wouldn't like to describe him as exemplifying a combination of these.

Yes, but what is beauty? There is no absolute truth about what is beautiful. Beauty is something extreamly subjective, we think different thing are beautiful, so who has the right to determine what actually is beautiful and what isn't? I personally don't think that one should only be allowed to express "beauty" in art.

The discussion about artist, singers, movies etc. that expresses violance is so ridiculous that I can't really take it seriously. It's so absurd, I thought Michael Moore had proved something in Bowling for Columbine but somehow the discussion just goes on and on. I mean I've been listening to Marilyn Manson every week since I was 14 and I've never thought about doing anything violent. And it seems that the only time you can make the connection between music and violence is when it comes to young people that do something violent. No one would say what that Joseph Fritzl did what he did because he watched Sound of Music right? The hills are alive with the sound of music *oh, got to go down in the basement and start digging*. The whole discussion is so absurd. Being exposed to violence in the media doesn't make you violent, it's just something easy to blame so you don't have to consider that maybe those persons did it because they actually wanted to.
Morrissey takes the risk of being misunderstood ofcourse, and he has, he has been accused of racism and so many things. But a lot of really intelligent people have, Marilyn Manson is possibly one of the most misunderstood people alive today. His lyrics are really clever if you read them and actually listen to what he is singing. I personally interpret a lot of his lyrics as metaphores and I can identify with what he's singing, in New Model Nr. 15 he sings

I'm as fake as e wedding cake
And I'm Vague and I know that I'm homopolitan
Pitifully predictable
Correctly political

I'm the new, I'm the new, new model
I've got nothing inside
Better in the head and in bed
At the office
I can suck and I smile
New, new, new model

For me this has a very deep meaning, and this is very personal to me, I actually identify with the feeling he expresses. But people are so scared because of the way he looks and acts that they can't see behind that. And a lot of people ridicule him, but actualy it's he that ridicules them because they are stuck and can't see what he means because they can't see behind his appearance, and that fact ridicules them, not him.And Morrissey does exactly the same thing, people are so stuck in what they think he is that they don't see the meaning behind.
Today within art we are so used to being fed with given answers and interpretations, I mean a lot of lyrics aren't questions, they are given answers and what the hell the question to those answers was no one really knows. And a lot of "culture" today somehow presumes that the person listening to the music, or watching the movie, is stupid. Many lyrics are so mundane that they requier no intelligence from the interpreator, and I don't know but I have a feeling that it's making people stupid. And whenever people actually write something clever, like Morrissey or Marilyn Manson, people don't understand and ridicule them.