Does anyone here have...

[Cinderella]

clinical depression? And are you ashamed of it? Do you tell people and if you do, do you ever regret that you have? We are one in four these days, or so we are led to believe, yet you'd think it was rarer than unicorns.

Is it different in America, over here if you have depression you have to be some kind of mentalist freak it's a family embarrassment and spoken about in euphemisms, or whispered about quietly. Oh the comical facial gestures!

And people say things like 'well I told them you weren't very well, but I didn't tell them what with, I didn't think you'd want me to' or 'it's not my place to say so you might not want people to know'...not want people to know?!?!?!! yeah right, because weeping in supermarkets over the courgettes isn't a dead giveaway, it's perfectly normal; it happens all the time.

Oh and doesn't it annoy you when people equate it with unhappiness? Or that most disgustingly vile outburst 'well you LOOK alright' pfft. Like you aren't overly practiced at hiding how you really feel, oh no, I love carrying my heart in my pocket with 'Here's where it hurts please damage' embroidered over the top! Do you think, as I do, that you should be able to shove/drive a screwdriver into the eye of anyone who says this and then tell them you know how they feel because you once stubbed your toe and it really hurt?! I think that would be a good law, one that would set an example, send out the right kind of message.

How lumpy is your carpet and do you have a closet Mr and Mrs West would be impressed by?!

 

[Somnium]

> clinical depression? And are you ashamed of it? Do you tell
> people and if you do, do you ever regret that you have? We are
> one in four these days, or so we are led to believe, yet you'd
> think it was rarer than unicorns.

i do, and i am just saying this here because you will never meet me face to face, and we have an ocean between us. i live with this since i was a child, and there is no cure. being unhappy or upset is one thing... but being depressed is another different thing. i laugh when i hear some people saying:"i'm so depressed today"... it's a wrong term, cause when you are really drepressed, this will follow you for the rest of your life, and you can not run away, cause there is no place to go. i use prozac and i say "thank God", because this really works for me, and this makes the hell goes away. yes, it's like a hell, full of devils trying to drive you crazy. i don't tell it to people near me, cause i know they will think i'm crazy, weird or something. i just take my medicine everysingle day to face this life, and i will do it forever. if you stop to use the medicine... after 2 weeks you come back to the shadows and the nightmares, and i don't think anyone deserve it, cause this is horrible. ...i don't drink, i don't use drugs (like heroine, or any other), i have a very regular life, and i am not a mad,... but i admit my clinical depression. i know i'm not the only one who feels like that, and i know people can not understand it, cause they never felt panic in the midle of the day, so why should i tell them? anyway, you will just get pity, like you would be a victim or something. ...if you have good medicines that can relief your spirit from the storm, why not useing this???? i don't care what people think, i will just go on with my blessed prozac.

 

[Mimi]

I don't really have a say in this issue because I don't think my "depressions" have in any way physical roots. I just have very bad days sometimes when I feel like the whole world is after me and when I'm really unhappy with the way I am.

But once I'm over such phases I'm usually quite thankful. The pressure they put me under usally trigger off quality thoughts that I don't have when I'm just living averagely. But I know this is no comfort to you at all and you'd probably swap quality thoughts for a bit of plain happiness any day.

Well to answer your question I don't think clinical depression is something anyone should be ashamed of. It's a disease. And as such it's perfectly okay to fight it with medication like you'd do with any other disease aswell. And yes it's true that most people don't understand about it but that's not their fault - it's just something that's not been researched very well yet and which isn't exactly an issue to babble over whilst having tea ( and I know you have a lot of tea over there in England ;-) ) So I'm afraid you're just gonna have to keep explaining yourself but those whose opinion matters to you will understand. And bugger the rest.

Ok I might put myself on the line here but I think it might help you to exchange your experience with others who go through the same...you obviously feel the need to talk about it, otherwise you wouldn't do it here. So maybe there's a message board somewhere out there with more people who can relate to what you were saying. It's worth a try....

You probably know this already but clinical depression is caused by an imbalance of chemistry in the brain. On a random note - the same thing is falling in love. I don't know about you but I find strange comfort in that whenever a love goes wrong. At the end of the day we're just slaves to the brain.....

 

[Puggsie]

> clinical depression? And are you ashamed of it? Do you tell
> people

I used to be so very ashamed as if I should be put away in a mental institution of some sort. I now share my feelings readily because I feel I have just learned "to live with it." I have never been medicated for the condition. I have developed the strength over the years to accept and cope with the depression. My life is fulfilled if not always happy.

 

[Cinderella]

Re: Dopamine.

> But I know this is no comfort to you at all and you'd probably swap > quality thoughts for a bit of plain happiness any day.

But therein lies the weirdness...I am rather happy most of the time. (Unless someone upsets me that is)

> And bugger the rest.

Well that's a given!

> Ok I might put myself on the line here but I think it might help
> you to exchange your experience with others who go through the
> same...you obviously feel the need to talk about it, otherwise
> you wouldn't do it here. So maybe there's a message board
> somewhere out there with more people who can relate to what you
> were saying. It's worth a try....

I don't need to talk about it, I want to ask about it, ask people who aren't openly at some 'spank your inner moppet' board, because at those kinds of places everyone is down pat with the theraspeak and it's all very very dull.

> You probably know this already but clinical depression is caused
> by an imbalance of chemistry in the brain. On a random note -
> the same thing is falling in love. I don't know about you but I
> find strange comfort in that whenever a love goes wrong. At the
> end of the day we're just slaves to the brain.....

And there we have the truth of it...it's all about dopamine stimulation...hey do you think that's a good chat up line...'Hi, you stimulate my dopamine receptors do I do that to you? Wanna go make some more?' Now THAT IS worth a try (because if all else fails the confused/bewildered possibly fearful reaction could be quite beautiful to observe!)

 

[talbot rothwell]

The chicken or the egg

> You probably know this already but clinical depression is caused
> by an imbalance of chemistry in the brain. On a random note -
> the same thing is falling in love. I don't know about you but I
> find strange comfort in that whenever a love goes wrong. At the
> end of the day we're just slaves to the brain.....

Is it caused by a chemical imbalance or is the chemical imbalance a symptom of depression? If you would prefer to objectify depression in the same way psychiatrics do but all means believe this line of thought. I think it is something that is particular to that person alone and can never be solved by taking medicine. No link has ever been found that a person who is not suffering from depression one day will come down with depression like the flu then next given a high enough chemical concentration. personally I feel that that's a major fault in today's society, the quick fix, the quick answer to one's problems. maybe the only way to rid yourself of depression is to undertand what causes it within yourself? The way you think, your hopes, your fears? It is found that generally introverts suffer with depression while extroverts tend to suffer with panic attacks and obsessive, compulsive behaviour. A common way for a typical introvert to gauge their life is to look at their achievements and successes in life. Is there something that is stopping you from achieving all that you want? Fears? Loved ones? How can you overcome these? This all takes much soul searching and time discovering yourself, it cannot be unravelled by a pill. If those of you who have serious problems with dealing with depression, you may like to read a couple of books by Dorothy Rowe, either Beyond Fear or Depression: The Way Out of Your Prison. Even if you weren't that particularly interested, they are an interesting read and a different way of looking at psychiatry and psychology.

Apologies, this response turned out to be longer than I expected.

 

[Cinderella]

Re: I take your point...but...

All well and good with reactive depression but what about endogenous depression?

And even if it is about thoughts and feelings are they not still excretions of the brain and so to some extent somatic?

And what's so wrong with a quick fix if it works?

 

[Stig O'Hara]

I love the smell of Amytriptiline in the morning

 

[talbot rothwell]

Re: I take your point...but...

> All well and good with reactive depression but what about
> endogenous depression?

> And even if it is about thoughts and feelings are they not still
> excretions of the brain and so to some extent somatic?

> And what's so wrong with a quick fix if it works?

Does it work? Is it deemed successful if it renders a person dependent upon the quick fix for the rest of their lives?

Endogenous depression, is the often (perhaps cynically) thought of a depression in which there is no logical reason (ie kids are well, marriage is healthy, love both your parents etc). Mainly women are diagnosed with endogenous depression by male psychiatrists. Does this not make you wonder? Psychiatry and psychology are both subjective fields. You are reliant upon the interpretation of your doctor. To assume that there is a objective view one takes is ludicrous. Objective in theory, yes, but in objective in practice? That's a near impossibility. You are forever using your subjective judgement in making meaningful conclusions. In the fifties before the rise of Betty Friedan and her "problem who has no name" and some time after as well, many women who suffered with these numbing types of feelings were deemed to be suffering from endogenous depression. Doctors (once again mostly male) saw no reason for her to be depressed, after all her kids were healthy and her husband provided a roof her head, didn't he? With nowhere to go in terms of helping this woman they would recommend electrocution. maybe they needed to kick start her mind or maybe they needed to dumb it down... Some think that endogenous depression is the term psychiatrists and psychologists use when they don't know what's going on and don't particularly have the means or time to find out. Another example of this is schizophrenia, but that's a whole other issue....

Are thoughts and feeling excretions of the brain? Is there a difference between the brain and mind? I believe the chemicals are somatic and hence cannot be the cause of depression if they are the result. has it been proved either way yet? I don't know. It's like the God theory. People who are very religious or have had a religious experience have been found to have had a part in their brain stimulated. Sufferers of epilepsy will often comment that before going into an attack they feel all-knowing and feel they have close contact with God. Now you could say that this is a result of a chemical being released. But that doesn't rule out the possibility that God exists.

Once again, I overdone it but I enjoy the discussion. Thanks.

 

[Cinderella]

Re: To some extent, true

> Does it work? Is it deemed successful if it renders a person
> dependent upon the quick fix for the rest of their lives?

Dependant...but isn't that only like being dependent on the chemicals your own brain produces, so if it doesn't why not take a pill to restore that level (of course my points are based firmly on the belief that brain chemistry does have a main part to play in the picture, oh and whether the levels are low and precipitate depression or whether depression precipitates the lowering of the levels seems to me anyway, inconsequential...ie, they are still low so take em back up again?) Personally? I'd rather be dependent on a pill for the rest of my life and HAVE a life than have no life and a miserable demise.

And yeah, to use the proffesional terminology, a great deal of psychiatry is phucked up! It's also interesting to note that such pshychiatrists are also the ones who base their examinations on the physical model rather than the collaborative model SUPPOSED to be applied in this area of health care.

Because, essentially, you are right, how CAN you be objective and one sided about a highly subjective situation. And you could well be right about the old endogenous being a fancy term for 'don't know'. Ideopathic is another one! Laughing...they are delicate though these consultants egos, and thinking up fancy words sounds so much better than we don't know...'you're unexplainable' is better than 'we don't know enough about this' it's a completely 'its not our fault we can't help you it's your own for being so different!'...like you say, lets not get into it except to say just look at all the backtracked theories (dead certain scientific argument I think it was called at the time)about schitzophrenia...they haven't got a clue they just sound of for the sake of sounding as clever as they believe they really are...pfft!

It's (well I think) interesting to note that it is also mostly women who are diagnosed with borderline personality disorder (and note this is not 'it is mostly women who HAVE BPD' but rather it is mostly women who are diagnosed with BPD?!)

I have to say that I personally see no difference between brain and mind, I feel that mind is the term we give to the bits we don't yet know enough about to fully understand so therefore, to many (and quite understandibly), it is seen to have a somewhat etherial quality.

The epilepsy thing can be used to both prove and disprove the god theory it's one of those 'polititians love 'em facts'. But I suppose my point is, no matter what, where, how, if, huh?, something is happening, if something works...keep doing it...it's a question of quality of life.

Although as well as not truly understanding the mechanisms of mental health the exact action of most psychiatric drugs is unknown also..!

Well I guess we are all just fumbling around in the dark...I just wish I could occasionally stumble across something a little more exciting than and empty coke can, a half eaten apple, a two pence piece and the batteries that have rolled out of the remote!

See I too can yammer!

 

[Cinderella]

Re: Do you know...

> I used to be so very ashamed as if I should be put away in a
> mental institution of some sort. I now share my feelings readily
> because I feel I have just learned "to live with it."
> I have never been medicated for the condition. I have developed
> the strength over the years to accept and cope with the
> depression. My life is fulfilled if not always happy.

It's funny but my life is happy if not always fulfilled! (Although I feel I must admit my problem is largely a sleep disorder)

BTW I've been in two mental institutions, the first one when I was 17 and the food was yummy. The second one last year (the only place open was in a schitzophrenic place) and the nurses were horrid but my fellow inmates were fab!

 

[PunchdrunkGB]

lucky

You dont know how lucky you are

> It's funny but my life is happy if not always fulfilled!
> (Although I feel I must admit my problem is largely a sleep
> disorder)

> BTW I've been in two mental institutions, the first one when I
> was 17 and the food was yummy. The second one last year (the
> only place open was in a schitzophrenic place) and the nurses
> were horrid but my fellow inmates were fab!

 

[Cinderella]

Re: luck be a lady

> You dont know how lucky you are

Yes. I do.