Guilty Pleasures (music-wise)?

[Qvist]

As proclaimed in South Park, Disintegration is the greatest ever album of all time. Conclusive proof that both of you are woefully mistaken.

Not it isn't. It is the most overrated album of all time, and a weaker album than anything that preceded it in the band's production. It is to the Cure what Tonight is to David Bowie - the beginning of the pointless part of their career. In my personal opinion.

Consider the type of people that watch South Park.

I watch South Park, and consider it the most intelligent satire ever produced by a long-running series on American television. OK, not that that says much, but still....

At it's best, it is sublimely devastating, often because it doesn't shy away from vulgarity and profanity where that is in fact entirely appropriate (as in the brilliant Paris Hilton episode). Not unlike a certain Manchester-born singer, now that I think on it....

cheers

 

[Worm]

I watch South Park, and consider it the most intelligent satire ever produced by a long-running series on American television. OK, not that that says much, but still....

It is, yes. Surprising to say that, but it's true.

That said, I'm always bothered by the way it also seems to reinforce a certain kind of crudity of thought. I don't mean the profanity and the nasty humor, since those are obviously necessary and deliberate elements of their satiric project. I'm talking more about the sense you get that they've no idea what should replace the hypocrisy, double-speak, venality, and stupidity they send up. There are some very interesting contradictions.

It's hard to take the whole series into account, but you can look at Parker and Stone's "Team America: World Police" and see what I mean. They take shots at everyone, from neocons to Saddam Hussein, from Hollywood actors to mindless American militarism, but in the end (pun intended, if you remember the film's climax) they really do push the view that the world would be fine if we all chilled out, smoked some dope, ate some cheeseburgers, watched some porn DVDs, and left the planet to the protection of the U.S. military.

Also:

 

[Qvist]

It is, yes. Surprising to say that, but it's true.

That said, I'm always bothered by the way it also seems to reinforce a certain kind of crudity of thought. I don't mean the profanity and the nasty humor, since those are obviously necessary and deliberate elements of their satiric project. I'm talking more about the sense you get that they've no idea what should replace the hypocrisy, double-speak, venality, and stupidity they send up. There are some very interesting contradictions.

Yes, you're right. Which is epitomised by the "But you know, I learned something today...." part, which is invariably the least satisfying and most annoying part of virtually any SP episode. After spending 30 minutes rabidly painting the world as a place of unspeakable and violent stupidity, it's as if they can't bear to contemplate their own picture, and have to restore normality by invoking a simple morality that is fathomable to any third-grader (literally). And that presumed normality undercuts the preceding madness, because it suggests that the solution lies simply in a good sense that is simple, straightforward and always accessible.


It's annoying. It's the same thing with the Simpsons - no matter how incurably irresponsible Homer is, no matter how Lisa defeats Montgomery Burns, no matter how viciously Bart behaves, in the end nothing changes and America's most dysfunctional family end up reaffirming their togetherness and their place in society. But this is a proud cartoon tradition, all the way back to Donald Duck of course - nothing ever changes.

It's hard to take the whole series into account, but you can look at Parker and Stone's "Team America: World Police" and see what I mean. They take shots at everyone, from neocons to Saddam Hussein, from Hollywood actors to mindless American militarism, but in the end (pun intended, if you remember the film's climax) they really do push the view that the world would be fine if we all chilled out, smoked some dope, ate some cheeseburgers, watched some porn DVDs, and left the planet to the protection of the U.S. military.

I found TA a dismal failure as a piece of satire. It wasn't even funny.

cheers

 

[Worm]

Yes, you're right. Which is epitomised by the "But you know, I learned something today...." part, which is invariably the least satisfying and most annoying part of virtually any SP episode. After spending 30 minutes rabidly painting the world as a place of unspeakable and violent stupidity, it's as if they can't bear to contemplate their own picture, and have to restore normality by invoking a simple morality that is fathomable to any third-grader (literally). And that presumed normality undercuts the preceding madness, because it suggests that the solution lies simply in a good sense that is simple, straightforward and always accessible.

Could it be that, at heart, Stone and Parker are basically liberals, and liberals don't do satire well? I am thinking of Jonathan Swift as a counterexample of one who did it the right way-- who actually had something to affirm.

I found TA a dismal failure as a piece of satire. It wasn't even funny.

I agree, though I very much liked their parodies of testosterone-fueled American action films, which were spot on, as well as the strangeness they wrung from the poor Thunderbirds-style puppets.

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