A
Anonymous
Guest
He's been off and on meds since he was 15. I think that's why his weight fluctuates.
Happy 6th Birthday to "Years of Refusal"
- Thread starter fredkocherpepsi
- Start date
He's been off and on meds since he was 15. I think that's why his weight fluctuates.
I suppose that's well and good but would they know any of the other songs on the album? In my opinion, the album is rather boring at times. It sounds like a lot of the same. Now the words and morrissey's voice are absolutely top notch but I can't listen to the songs in succession. I'll get bored.
A
Anonymous
Guest
well it is a bit of understatement but as a player i find some of the back catalog much more boring like south paw or even vauxhall. america is not the world, irish blood and i have forgiven jesus all sound pretty nice to me and not similar to one another. i love the sonar sounds found on the album, and really i think quarry to be a more electro lounge album in truth, to indicate searching and come back to camden is a beautiful ballad that hits a really nice climax and personally one of my fav moz songs. i have a soc degree so im naturally interested in demographics and when i go to shows and see fans in any way i always ask them how they came aboard and how they knew about stuff and to my surprise many said they were new fans from quarry. a lot of people were very young. its like when the smiths were nominated for the rock and roll of fame and someone said that most people couldnt even name a smiths song. they morrissey by name and knew some solo songs but i think the influence of the smiths is much more diffuse than people here would like to think. at least in the u.s. i foud morrissey by his words. id heard the odd song here and there like hsin, the only smiths song ive ever heard in the radio in my life but couldnt connect it to anything so it went from my memory. i did see an article about a guy making shirts and the one the article featured was everybody lies, nobody minds and went from there and started making peripheral connection that resulted in me buying a best of and thinking this sounds nothing like how soon is now and put it off for a long long time. eh in short yes many knew morrissey by name and reputation and yes many knew that album who didnt know the smiths. no one i talked to that fit into this category knew the smiths well but knew morrisseys more popular hits and so came.
Chip
Member
Does Pitchfork really rate albums on commercial accessibility? And if it was so commercially accessible why was it such a commercial failure?
I just find it odd that it so hated here and yet one of his most critically acclaimed albums.
I do not find it odd that it was not commercially successful, because Morrissey is mostly a cult act.
Morrissey's music can be very polarizing--think World Peace or Southpaw--people either love said albums or hate them. Whereas, Years of Refusal is just sort of a consistent album. I don't think there are any bad songs on it, but I also don't think there are any great songs on it. Even with his worst albums--Kill Uncle or Maladjusted--he had some truly fantastic songs--Sing Your Life, Maladjusted, Trouble Loves Me--that are the best in his catalogue. All of his albums prior to Years of Refusal I felt like had at least one truly breathtaking song. Years of Refusal had good songs, but none of them rose to that level (Something is Squeezing My Skull comes very close though). I suspect that might be the reason for its poor reception amongst fans in spite of its critical acclaim.
Either that or angry, bitter, spiteful cultist, their sycophants, and trolls make up the loudest voices on the internet--especially in arenas that are supposedly for "fans."
A
Anonymous
Guest
"Years of Refusal had good songs, but none of them rose to that level (Something is Squeezing My Skull comes very close though)."
i think this pretty accurate. while good there was bit of a feeling that it was somehow a bit unspecial which is odd for me and a moz album and of course people always want to blame production for whatever reason. as for allmusic, they do let acclaim somewhat cloud there specific analysis of an individual album and public reception as well but for the most part they do rate fairly objectively i think. people, almost all people, dont just buy records or music for the notes contained but how they feel about the whole endeavor (album artwork can be a big part of it for example. if iggy hadnt been on the cover of raw power all goth and glam i dont think people would be so receptive to it or colored the music quite as much as they did with his personality). what you think of iggy judged by how he looked on that cover influenced how youd receive the music before it even starts. this is natural if annoying. hell the germs and darby crash wouldnt even exist if that cover didnt exist as well. it was what prompted them to meet iggy while he was doing kill city and of course a lot of drugs. williamson wouldnt even let them in the door. the last is just a fun fact but my point is peoples opinions are very affected by what they think of something even before they hear the music and with so much being said about everything these days and our access to it, the info or thoughts, i think can change peoples opinions or at least muddle them.
i think this pretty accurate. while good there was bit of a feeling that it was somehow a bit unspecial which is odd for me and a moz album and of course people always want to blame production for whatever reason. as for allmusic, they do let acclaim somewhat cloud there specific analysis of an individual album and public reception as well but for the most part they do rate fairly objectively i think. people, almost all people, dont just buy records or music for the notes contained but how they feel about the whole endeavor (album artwork can be a big part of it for example. if iggy hadnt been on the cover of raw power all goth and glam i dont think people would be so receptive to it or colored the music quite as much as they did with his personality). what you think of iggy judged by how he looked on that cover influenced how youd receive the music before it even starts. this is natural if annoying. hell the germs and darby crash wouldnt even exist if that cover didnt exist as well. it was what prompted them to meet iggy while he was doing kill city and of course a lot of drugs. williamson wouldnt even let them in the door. the last is just a fun fact but my point is peoples opinions are very affected by what they think of something even before they hear the music and with so much being said about everything these days and our access to it, the info or thoughts, i think can change peoples opinions or at least muddle them.
Chip
Member
I've heard this expressed many times on here, but from my experience I just do not believe it to be true. Perhaps it is true in the United Kingdom where Morrissey is a much bigger cultural phenomena than in the US and where Quarry probably was a lot more culturally significant/was his bestselling album. However, pretty nearly everyone I've met that skews younger and knows of Morrissey generally either associates him pretty much exclusively with the Smiths or with (at best) his very early solo work like Suedehead and Everyday is Like Sunday.
I mean if you think about it if you ever hear Morrissey on the radio, in a Starbucks, at a bar, etc. it is either going to be the Smiths (most likely) and occasionally Suedehead or Everyday is Like Sunday. I don't think I've ever heard First of the Gang to Die played anywhere other than at the Smiths v. Cure dance party I go to. And I certainly have been surprised by the number of places I've heard The Smiths (over a mall intercom, at a Chipotles, in a Starbucks) and there used to be a bar that I would go to that played quite a bit of Smiths stuff (it was kinda hipstery) and would also frequently play Suedehead/Sunday.
I think this would explain why his Smiths albums/early solo albums did not sell that well upon initial release in the US, especially compared to Your Arsenal, Vauxhall, even his more recent albums, yet have all well outsold the rest of his catalogue, because they continue to consistently sell copies year after year--albeit a small number.
Your Arsenal and Vauxhall does seem to be the peak of his commercial accessibility in the US--going on Jay Leno, getting attention from MTV, etc.--and I think that is why there is this subgroup of fans who hold onto this notion that those are his best works and show much less interest in the Smiths/early-solo work and have a great bit of disdain for his post-2004. I think they also tend be overrepresented here.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Yes, Kill Uncle and Your Arsenal was his peak of fame in the US, commercial-wise. He came close to being a household name, but I'm not sure what happened because he's certainly not super famous here. It's easy to think he is when you are a fan, but he's not outside of LA.
The Carson show is a good example of what could have been- the fans screaming in the audience, Moz having a catchy song with Sing Your Life, being young (32) and handsome.
A
Anonymous
Guest
who knows for sure but first of the gang to die was for sure on the radio a bunch here and glamorous glue gets played more often than any smith song aside from hsin from my experience. ive never heard any vauxhall songs on the radio here on the east coast. hmm i wonder what the youtube comments or amazon comments would reflect etc. maybe ill check it out. as for starbucks ive only ever heard one smiths song while working there and it what difference does it make of all choices. weird i know
A
Anonymous
Guest
He had a weird lisp on that album.
A
Anonymous
Guest
maybe he was trying his luck.
Similar threads
