How The Mighty Have Fallen

O

OurPhranc

New Member
A new poster, and a long term fan of Morrissey, but to be honest, I am shocked and disappointed by the news of him having fans thrown out of concerts.

As a Smith, alongside Marc Almond, Mozz was the soundtrack to my adolescence - hell, I even went vegetarian because of these two - and I loved him. Every word, every interview, every song..........

The Smiths split, and sadly, he has gone down in musical output since then. Originally, he was still fabulous copy, and his interviews were essential reading, his wit and phrasing were still legendary. But the music was slipping. VH was an okay album, with some good tracks on, but probably only a couple would have made a Smiths album. But the B sides were still quality, and the star still shone brightly.

But then came Kill Uncle. Shocker. Poor at very best. And, as the artistic cracks started to show, then the personal cracks started to show too. The racism started to leak out, and a not very nice side to Mozz was on display for us all to revile.

And sadly, that seems to be the pattern with Mozz. As he becomes more musically bankrupt, he becomes more morally bankrupt also. Almost because he realises his musical output is never better than fair to middling, and it's either a panic or a smokescreen that he tries to erect to hide the musical frailties. Of which, sadly, there are many.

The fact that record companies are not falling over themselves to offer him a new deal speaks absolute volumes. They obviously don't want to release an album of songs everyone has bought before sporting different titles singing about the same themes and subjects and with the same musical backing as he has for the last 10 years. Mozz as a relevant artist is dead. The queen is dead, long live the queen.

And, the number of Mozz disciples is shrinking. Quickly. It's over for him now. And, although he probably doesn't want to admit it, deep down he must know it. But, because he will refuse to accept it (publicly at least) this outlandish and oafish behaviour will carry on, probably plumbing deeper depths than even we dare to imagine.

Stephen Patrick Morrissey, I loved you. I still have all your albums and the countless re-issues, and I still play the Smiths albums regularly. You wrote my musical early life. Please, don't compact the damage you have already done to what could have been a flawless musical legacy by continuing to release the same drivel. Please don't taint that Godlike status we all hold you in by becoming a bitter and twisted sad old singer with such crazy acts towards your devoted fans.

Oh, you silly old man
You silly old man
You're making a fool of yourself
So get off the stage

But the song that you just sang
It sounds exactly like the last one
And the next one
I bet you it will sound
Like this one

As Marc Almond once sang, 'All Gods fall in the end'. Please, before you become the charicature you once mocked................
 
Poignant and accurate first post,mr or ms
 
And there was silly old me thinking this was a thread about Rupert Murdoch
 
he hasn't fallen
these things simply go in cycles
Morrissey has always been in and then dramatically out of favour
the worm has turned
he will be back
he always is
the rest and time away will mean more songs to choose from and a better album
no record company would touch him now
they are all waiting for the book
they all want to be off the back of that, not before it
We now have a date of 2012 for the book
If you wait and don't listen to the gossip and slurs from the media, social or otherwise he will win you back
just like always
 
...don't forget the songs that made you cry and the songs that saved your life...
 
OurPhranc you've made some very pertinent points however, I too am a Marc Almond fan since 1981 and I could tell you some unpleasant things he's done and said to fans over the years. Sometimes getting too close to the flame means we all get burnt.
 
Oh, for f***s sake - what a ridiculous posting. First thing, Morrissey is not having ‘fans thrown out of concerts’. It was an individual who he once considered to be a friend who went on to publish extremely nasty rumours (which may or may not have been true) on the internet about Morrissey’s business dealings – on the same website that Morrissey praised in interviews and credited on one of his CDs. Yes, Morrissey has also benefited from the website over the years, but the idea that he just booted out a random fan from a concert is complete and utter bollocks.
Morrissey is not a musician (as he himself has pointed out) so he can’t become ‘musically bankrupt’. Other people compose the music for him and play the instruments. He writes the words, and sings the songs. If his songs appear musically bankrupt, have a moan at the people who composed them. If it’s the lyrics or singing you don’t like, by all means have a go at him.
The number of Morrissey’s disciples is shrinking? How about adding some figures to these ludicrously vague generalisations? The truth is Morrissey remains a massively important cultural force, easily the most influential UK singer from the last 30 years. The size of the fan-base fluctuates from year to year depending on factors such as hype, quality of singles, airplay, and the amount of time elapsed since previous album. The idea that his audience has followed an ever declining trajectory ever since the Smiths (or even ‘Vauxhall and I’) is absolute nonsense. His biggest selling album to date was released in 2004, 16 years after the Smiths, 10 years after Vauxhall. Each of the last three albums has received more critical acclaim than the previous one. His cultural clout is stronger than ever. Bands, films and novels are named after his songs, solo and Smith. The smallest incident gets reported on musical websites. He supports U2, probably the world’s biggest band, at the world’s most prestigious festival. He has tens of thousands singing along to his songs at Hop Farm. He doesn’t have a record deal because the industry goalposts have moved. 10 years ago, you needed to be able to sell 50,000 to 100,000 to secure a deal - well within his grasp. Now you need to be able to shift three times that amount.
As for quoting the lyrics to “Get off the Stage”, congratulations on the insight and originality.


OurPhranc said:
A new poster, and a long term fan of Morrissey, but to be honest, I am shocked and disappointed by the news of him having fans thrown out of concerts.

As a Smith, alongside Marc Almond, Mozz was the soundtrack to my adolescence - hell, I even went vegetarian because of these two - and I loved him. Every word, every interview, every song..........

The Smiths split, and sadly, he has gone down in musical output since then. Originally, he was still fabulous copy, and his interviews were essential reading, his wit and phrasing were still legendary. But the music was slipping. VH was an okay album, with some good tracks on, but probably only a couple would have made a Smiths album. But the B sides were still quality, and the star still shone brightly.

But then came Kill Uncle. Shocker. Poor at very best. And, as the artistic cracks started to show, then the personal cracks started to show too. The racism started to leak out, and a not very nice side to Mozz was on display for us all to revile.

And sadly, that seems to be the pattern with Mozz. As he becomes more musically bankrupt, he becomes more morally bankrupt also. Almost because he realises his musical output is never better than fair to middling, and it's either a panic or a smokescreen that he tries to erect to hide the musical frailties. Of which, sadly, there are many.

The fact that record companies are not falling over themselves to offer him a new deal speaks absolute volumes. They obviously don't want to release an album of songs everyone has bought before sporting different titles singing about the same themes and subjects and with the same musical backing as he has for the last 10 years. Mozz as a relevant artist is dead. The queen is dead, long live the queen.

And, the number of Mozz disciples is shrinking. Quickly. It's over for him now. And, although he probably doesn't want to admit it, deep down he must know it. But, because he will refuse to accept it (publicly at least) this outlandish and oafish behaviour will carry on, probably plumbing deeper depths than even we dare to imagine.

Stephen Patrick Morrissey, I loved you. I still have all your albums and the countless re-issues, and I still play the Smiths albums regularly. You wrote my musical early life. Please, don't compact the damage you have already done to what could have been a flawless musical legacy by continuing to release the same drivel. Please don't taint that Godlike status we all hold you in by becoming a bitter and twisted sad old singer with such crazy acts towards your devoted fans.

Oh, you silly old man
You silly old man
You're making a fool of yourself
So get off the stage

But the song that you just sang
It sounds exactly like the last one
And the next one
I bet you it will sound
Like this one

As Marc Almond once sang, 'All Gods fall in the end'. Please, before you become the charicature you once mocked................
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Maurice E said:
Oh, for f***s sake - what a ridiculous posting. First thing, Morrissey is not having ‘fans thrown out of concerts’. It was an individual who he once considered to be a friend who went on to publish extremely nasty rumours (which may or may not have been true) on the internet about Morrissey’s business dealings – on the same website that Morrissey praised in interviews and credited on one of his CDs. Yes, Morrissey has also benefited from the website over the years, but the idea that he just booted out a random fan from a concert is complete and utter bollocks.
Morrissey is not a musician (as he himself has pointed out) so he can’t become ‘musically bankrupt’. Other people compose the music for him and play the instruments. He writes the words, and sings the songs. If his songs appear musically bankrupt, have a moan at the people who composed them. If it’s the lyrics or singing you don’t like, by all means have a go at him.
The number of Morrissey’s disciples is shrinking? How about adding some figures to these ludicrously vague generalisations? The truth is Morrissey remains a massively important cultural force, easily the most influential UK singer from the last 30 years. The size of the fan-base fluctuates from year to year depending on factors such as hype, quality of singles, airplay, and the amount of time elapsed since previous album. The idea that his audience has followed an ever declining trajectory ever since the Smiths (or even ‘Vauxhall and I’) is absolute nonsense. His biggest selling album to date was released in 2004, 16 years after the Smiths, 10 years after Vauxhall. Each of the last three albums has received more critical acclaim than the previous one. His cultural clout is stronger than ever. Bands, films and novels are named after his songs, solo and Smith. The smallest incident gets reported on musical websites. He supports U2, probably the world’s biggest band, at the world’s most prestigious festival. He has tens of thousands singing along to his songs at Hop Farm. He doesn’t have a record deal because the industry goalposts have moved. 10 years ago, you needed to be able to sell 50,000 to 100,000 to secure a deal - well within his grasp. Now you need to be able to shift three times that amount.
As for quoting the lyrics to “Get off the Stage”, congratulations on the insight and originality.
Click to expand...

refreshing
 
Well, to be honest, if Mozz still is this all conquering cultural iconic force, how sad that he gets his knickers in a twist to such an extent over a tiny corner of the internet. And whilst I agree in part about his influence over the length of his career, that is not anywhere near as relevant as it once was, and I don't believe for one minute that he would have such a flock of disciples if he had not been a Smith and it was based purely on his solo output.

As for the comment about him not being the musician so cannot be musically bankrupt.......... well, maybe I'm being a bit presumptious here, and maybe even a little naive, but when his new albums are released, 'Morrissey' relates to him the individual, not a collection of musicians, and so therefore, I would presume, he has the final say on the quality control button, meaning he is happy - nay, delighted - with the sound of the music as well as the lyrics?? Or maybe I'm wrong on that one.

There are many people - and I was one - who will blindly follow Mozz and fawn at his every word and defend his indefensibles, but these are the very people who are wrecking his career. To say 'Oh dah-ling, you were wonderful' despite him missing every note and the songs being shoddy is more destructive, more hateful, and more damaging than someone who says 'hang on a minute, thats not very good, that was out of order etc, we need to reassess'. False praise is more damning than honest condemnation.
 
Possibly we all make mistakes OurPhranc...And you can't say he didn't warn us long ago..

I wear Black on the outside
'Cause Black is how I feel on the inside
I wear Black on the outside
'Cause Black is how I feel on the inside


"And if I seem a little strange
Well, that's because I am
If I seem a little strange
That's because I am"
 
I agree with some of what you're saying. Although there have been plenty of great 'solo' songs, the average quality of the Smiths stuff is generally a lot higher. Yes, one presumes Morrissey does get the final say with the albums - which songs get included, chosen as singles/b sides etc, and I think that has been a problem. Morrissey's musical judgement is not his greatest strength.
However, after seeing him perform at Hop Farm, I'm delighted that he's still going, and if the rumour about Stephen Street writing some new songs for Morrissey is true, we could be in for a genuinely great album. However, none of the 4 we've heard to date were Street compositions so that's now looking a little unlikely...


OurPhranc said:
Well, to be honest, if Mozz still is this all conquering cultural iconic force, how sad that he gets his knickers in a twist to such an extent over a tiny corner of the internet. And whilst I agree in part about his influence over the length of his career, that is not anywhere near as relevant as it once was, and I don't believe for one minute that he would have such a flock of disciples if he had not been a Smith and it was based purely on his solo output.

As for the comment about him not being the musician so cannot be musically bankrupt.......... well, maybe I'm being a bit presumptious here, and maybe even a little naive, but when his new albums are released, 'Morrissey' relates to him the individual, not a collection of musicians, and so therefore, I would presume, he has the final say on the quality control button, meaning he is happy - nay, delighted - with the sound of the music as well as the lyrics?? Or maybe I'm wrong on that one.

There are many people - and I was one - who will blindly follow Mozz and fawn at his every word and defend his indefensibles, but these are the very people who are wrecking his career. To say 'Oh dah-ling, you were wonderful' despite him missing every note and the songs being shoddy is more destructive, more hateful, and more damaging than someone who says 'hang on a minute, thats not very good, that was out of order etc, we need to reassess'. False praise is more damning than honest condemnation.
Click to expand...
 
"Yes, one presumes Morrissey does get the final say with the albums - which songs get included, chosen as singles/b sides etc, and I think that has been a problem. Morrissey's musical judgement is not his greatest strength."

And that's the point I'm making. If nobody will stand up to him and tell him so, and in fact tell him what a great choice of single this is etc, then that perpetuates the myth in his own mind, and also makes him act even more like an ass when someone does dare to question him.
 
So OurPhranc you appear to have joined this site with the expressed intention of having a dig at Morrissey....perculiar.....Not David T or one of his gang in disguise are you???? (Me thinks you are)

Just seems an odd opener thats all......
 
OurPhranc said:
"Yes, one presumes Morrissey does get the final say with the albums - which songs get included, chosen as singles/b sides etc, and I think that has been a problem. Morrissey's musical judgement is not his greatest strength."

And that's the point I'm making. If nobody will stand up to him and tell him so, and in fact tell him what a great choice of single this is etc, then that perpetuates the myth in his own mind, and also makes him act even more like an ass when someone does dare to question him.
Click to expand...

but he has been incredibly sucessful over the years with little support and he will continue to be
he has always been difficult
always said no more than yes
and he has always been on the outside
why would he take, need or want your advice?

Its the classic "I doing it for his own good (because i love him and care about him) defense
Time to take a step back
 
Last edited:
No, am a new member who's attention the site and story was drawn following a comment made about it on a Marc Almond message board (my other great musical love). And yes, I do find it pathetic that a grown man who preaches freedom of speech and expression can get so uptight when someone - or a whole host of people - voice opinions that he doesn't like. It's sad that someone who supposedly stood against all thar false back slapping and disingenuosity is now the greatest exponent of the art.

Maybe I was wrong, but I thought this was a forum for fans to express an opinion rather than a blind cult rejoicing in the musical genius and lyrical wit of a Morrissey sneeze. In my opinion - and that is all it is - the mystique around the man is slipping, and the persona is cracking, and what is being revealed is not very nice.

For those interested, the aforementioned Marc board (where Marc has been known to linger, and get his knickers in a twist over comments left there, and has been 'chastised' by yours truly for doing so) is here.......

http://joeydemento.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=chat&action=display&thread=1542
 
Smiler, maybe we should all tow the party line and fawn over the latest third rate song or childish action or cringeworthy Glastonbury performance, because hey, it's the great Morrissey who can never put a step wrong. But you are right in the fact that he doesn't need or want my advice, and won't take it. And you are right also that he has always been difficult, that's one of the reasons we all loved him. But has he really always been so vindictive towards his fans?? Perhaps I too will be forcibly ejected from his next UK shows that I attend (tongue firmly rammed in cheek). But at least I can say I have the self respect to be honest with myself and others rather than being blindly sycophantic.....
 
Last edited:
"But at least I can say I have the self respect to be honest with myself and others rather than being blindly sycophantic..... "..... Dear oh dear oh dear....Could you be further up your own arse!!!

This is a FAN SITE FFS....'Fan' comes from the word 'Fanatical' which means having a certain amount of blind passion about an artist.

Why don't you go and discuss his 'third rate songs and childish actions and cringeworthy Glastonbury performance' elsewhere....The Daily Mail would love you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
I have a gripe about how Moz releases albums
Replies
13
Views
2K
gperkins151
gperkins151
L
how do the remasters sound?
2
Replies
26
Views
8K
evil_ash_xero
E
B
How the mainstream press has changed their minds about Morrissey and The Smiths
Replies
7
Views
2K
Raphael Lambach
Raphael Lambach
punky
Morrissey and me: how an ordinary Asian fell in love with the Smiths - The Guardian
Replies
5
Views
4K
Anonymous
A
L
The petition to have Morrissey put out to pasture..
Replies
2
Views
1K
lux girl
lux girl
Back
Top Bottom